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  <title>No One Tells You This: A Real Work Ready™ Podcast</title>

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  <description><![CDATA[<p>Most professionals are navigating an operating system nobody ever taught them. No One Tells You This is the podcast that finally changes that.</p><p><br></p><p>Hosted by Laura Massetti, former Fortune 100 executive, 3x business owner, and founder of Real Work Ready™ - this is the show for honest, unfiltered conversations about how work actually operates. The invisible rules. The unspoken standards. The cultural dynamics nobody names. The things your manager is thinking but not saying.</p><p><br></p><p>No fluff. No corporate spin. Just the conversations that needed to happen a long time ago.</p><p><br></p><p>A Real Work Ready™ Podcast.</p>]]></description>
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    <itunes:title>The Unwritten Rules of Engineering Leadership | Episode 4 ft. Chawan Mehra</itunes:title>
    <title>The Unwritten Rules of Engineering Leadership | Episode 4 ft. Chawan Mehra</title>
    <itunes:summary><![CDATA[🎙️ Join the Real Work Ready Founding Waitlist:  https://real-work-ready.kit.com/1e70df47de  Most professionals spend years learning the hard way what nobody told them at the start.  They were technically excellent. They got promoted. They delivered results. And then they hit a wall — not because they lacked skill, but because they were missing something nobody ever taught them.  In this episode, I sit down with Chawan Mehra — a technology executive who has spent his career at the interse...]]></itunes:summary>
    <description><![CDATA[<p>🎙️ Join the Real Work Ready Founding Waitlist:<br/> https://real-work-ready.kit.com/1e70df47de<br/><br/>Most professionals spend years learning the hard way what nobody told them at the start.<br/><br/>They were technically excellent. They got promoted. They delivered results. And then they hit a wall — not because they lacked skill, but because they were missing something nobody ever taught them.<br/><br/>In this episode, I sit down with Chawan Mehra — a technology executive who has spent his career at the intersection of deep technical expertise and large-scale human leadership. As Vice President of Software Engineering at Intel, he led AI accelerator software development for major global customers, scaled an engineering program from 15 people to 500 in nine months, and guided 400 engineers through one of the most demanding workforce transitions in the industry. He is also a passionate mentor — and this conversation is built entirely around what he wants the next generation to know before they have to figure it out the hard way.<br/><br/>If you are early in your career and trying to figure out how to grow, this episode is for you. If you are making the move into leadership and feeling the gap nobody warned you about, this is for you too.<br/><br/>IN THIS EPISODE<br/>The engineering fundamentals that hold true across every technology cycle — and what gets lost when people skip them<br/>What young professionals get wrong most often in their first five years<br/>What it actually takes to build a high-performing team from scratch — beyond hiring good people<br/>How to lead across global teams with very different cultures, working styles, and expectations<br/>What great communication looks like in practice for a technical leader<br/>The specific signals that tell Chawan someone is ready to be invested in and developed<br/>The advice he gives most often to the engineers and leaders he mentors today<br/><br/>🔗 Connect with Chawan Mehra:<br/>LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chawan-mehra/<br/>Email: chawan.mehra@gmail.com<br/><br/>🔗 Connect with Laura:<br/>LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lauramassetti/<br/>Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/realworkreadyhq<br/>Email: info@realworkready.com<br/>Website: https://www.realworkready.com<br/><br/>No One Tells You This is a Real Work Ready™ podcast. Every episode is a conversation with leaders, executives, and professionals who finally decided to say what nobody said to them — the unwritten rules, the invisible dynamics, and the things that actually determine who succeeds.</p><p><b>Laura Massetti</b><br/>Founder of <b>Real Work Ready™</b></p><p> <a href='http://www.realworkready.com/'>www.realworkready.com</a> Book a call: <a href='https://calendly.com/laura-massetti'>https://calendly.com/laura-massetti</a> LinkedIn: <a href='https://www.linkedin.com/in/lauramassetti/'>https://www.linkedin.com/in/lauramassetti/</a></p>]]></description>
    <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>🎙️ Join the Real Work Ready Founding Waitlist:<br/> https://real-work-ready.kit.com/1e70df47de<br/><br/>Most professionals spend years learning the hard way what nobody told them at the start.<br/><br/>They were technically excellent. They got promoted. They delivered results. And then they hit a wall — not because they lacked skill, but because they were missing something nobody ever taught them.<br/><br/>In this episode, I sit down with Chawan Mehra — a technology executive who has spent his career at the intersection of deep technical expertise and large-scale human leadership. As Vice President of Software Engineering at Intel, he led AI accelerator software development for major global customers, scaled an engineering program from 15 people to 500 in nine months, and guided 400 engineers through one of the most demanding workforce transitions in the industry. He is also a passionate mentor — and this conversation is built entirely around what he wants the next generation to know before they have to figure it out the hard way.<br/><br/>If you are early in your career and trying to figure out how to grow, this episode is for you. If you are making the move into leadership and feeling the gap nobody warned you about, this is for you too.<br/><br/>IN THIS EPISODE<br/>The engineering fundamentals that hold true across every technology cycle — and what gets lost when people skip them<br/>What young professionals get wrong most often in their first five years<br/>What it actually takes to build a high-performing team from scratch — beyond hiring good people<br/>How to lead across global teams with very different cultures, working styles, and expectations<br/>What great communication looks like in practice for a technical leader<br/>The specific signals that tell Chawan someone is ready to be invested in and developed<br/>The advice he gives most often to the engineers and leaders he mentors today<br/><br/>🔗 Connect with Chawan Mehra:<br/>LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chawan-mehra/<br/>Email: chawan.mehra@gmail.com<br/><br/>🔗 Connect with Laura:<br/>LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lauramassetti/<br/>Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/realworkreadyhq<br/>Email: info@realworkready.com<br/>Website: https://www.realworkready.com<br/><br/>No One Tells You This is a Real Work Ready™ podcast. Every episode is a conversation with leaders, executives, and professionals who finally decided to say what nobody said to them — the unwritten rules, the invisible dynamics, and the things that actually determine who succeeds.</p><p><b>Laura Massetti</b><br/>Founder of <b>Real Work Ready™</b></p><p> <a href='http://www.realworkready.com/'>www.realworkready.com</a> Book a call: <a href='https://calendly.com/laura-massetti'>https://calendly.com/laura-massetti</a> LinkedIn: <a href='https://www.linkedin.com/in/lauramassetti/'>https://www.linkedin.com/in/lauramassetti/</a></p>]]></content:encoded>
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    <itunes:title>What It Really Takes to Go from Doer to Leader | Episode 3 ft. Luca Lozzi</itunes:title>
    <title>What It Really Takes to Go from Doer to Leader | Episode 3 ft. Luca Lozzi</title>
    <itunes:summary><![CDATA[🎙️ Join the Real Work Ready Founding Waitlist:  https://real-work-ready.kit.com/1e70df47de  Most people who move into leadership do it without a map.  They were excellent at the work. They carried the number. They got promoted. And then everything they were rewarded for started working against them.  In this episode, I sit down with Luca Lozzi — a commercial leader and sales leadership consultant based in Milan, Italy, leading and advising teams across Europe. We talk about what managers...]]></itunes:summary>
    <description><![CDATA[<p>🎙️ Join the Real Work Ready Founding Waitlist:<br/> https://real-work-ready.kit.com/1e70df47de<br/><br/>Most people who move into leadership do it without a map.<br/><br/>They were excellent at the work. They carried the number. They got promoted. And then everything they were rewarded for started working against them.<br/><br/>In this episode, I sit down with Luca Lozzi — a commercial leader and sales leadership consultant based in Milan, Italy, leading and advising teams across Europe. We talk about what managers are actually evaluating, why the leap from individual contributor to leader is so much harder than anyone warns you about, and what it really takes to build a team that operates without you carrying them.<br/><br/>If you are early in your career, this one is for you. If you are already leading and feeling the tension Luca describes, this one is for you too.<br/><br/>IN THIS EPISODE<br/>Why capable, talented people struggle to make the IC-to-leader transition — and what is actually going on underneath<br/>What you have to unlearn when you make the shift — the instincts that made you great that now work against you<br/>The coaching vs. doing tension — and how to hold that line under pressure<br/>What good judgment and operational trust actually look like from the manager’s side<br/>The most common mistake first-time managers make that nobody warned them about<br/>What it looks like when a team genuinely operates independently — and why investing in people pays off in ways the short game never does<br/><br/>🔗 Connect with Luca Lozzi:<br/>LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/luca-lozzi/<br/><br/>🔗 Connect with Laura:<br/>LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lauramassetti/<br/>Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/realworkreadyhq<br/>Email: info@realworkready.com<br/>Website: https://www.realworkready.com<br/><br/>No One Tells You This is a Real Work Ready™ podcast. Every episode is a conversation with leaders, executives, and professionals who finally decided to say what nobody said to them — the unwritten rules, the invisible dynamics, and the things that actually determine who succeeds.</p><p><b>Laura Massetti</b><br/>Founder of <b>Real Work Ready™</b></p><p> <a href='http://www.realworkready.com/'>www.realworkready.com</a> Book a call: <a href='https://calendly.com/laura-massetti'>https://calendly.com/laura-massetti</a> LinkedIn: <a href='https://www.linkedin.com/in/lauramassetti/'>https://www.linkedin.com/in/lauramassetti/</a></p>]]></description>
    <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>🎙️ Join the Real Work Ready Founding Waitlist:<br/> https://real-work-ready.kit.com/1e70df47de<br/><br/>Most people who move into leadership do it without a map.<br/><br/>They were excellent at the work. They carried the number. They got promoted. And then everything they were rewarded for started working against them.<br/><br/>In this episode, I sit down with Luca Lozzi — a commercial leader and sales leadership consultant based in Milan, Italy, leading and advising teams across Europe. We talk about what managers are actually evaluating, why the leap from individual contributor to leader is so much harder than anyone warns you about, and what it really takes to build a team that operates without you carrying them.<br/><br/>If you are early in your career, this one is for you. If you are already leading and feeling the tension Luca describes, this one is for you too.<br/><br/>IN THIS EPISODE<br/>Why capable, talented people struggle to make the IC-to-leader transition — and what is actually going on underneath<br/>What you have to unlearn when you make the shift — the instincts that made you great that now work against you<br/>The coaching vs. doing tension — and how to hold that line under pressure<br/>What good judgment and operational trust actually look like from the manager’s side<br/>The most common mistake first-time managers make that nobody warned them about<br/>What it looks like when a team genuinely operates independently — and why investing in people pays off in ways the short game never does<br/><br/>🔗 Connect with Luca Lozzi:<br/>LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/luca-lozzi/<br/><br/>🔗 Connect with Laura:<br/>LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lauramassetti/<br/>Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/realworkreadyhq<br/>Email: info@realworkready.com<br/>Website: https://www.realworkready.com<br/><br/>No One Tells You This is a Real Work Ready™ podcast. Every episode is a conversation with leaders, executives, and professionals who finally decided to say what nobody said to them — the unwritten rules, the invisible dynamics, and the things that actually determine who succeeds.</p><p><b>Laura Massetti</b><br/>Founder of <b>Real Work Ready™</b></p><p> <a href='http://www.realworkready.com/'>www.realworkready.com</a> Book a call: <a href='https://calendly.com/laura-massetti'>https://calendly.com/laura-massetti</a> LinkedIn: <a href='https://www.linkedin.com/in/lauramassetti/'>https://www.linkedin.com/in/lauramassetti/</a></p>]]></content:encoded>
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    <itunes:title>How Great Leaders Build a Brand That Outlasts the Role | Episode 2 ft. Kelly L. Kuhn</itunes:title>
    <title>How Great Leaders Build a Brand That Outlasts the Role | Episode 2 ft. Kelly L. Kuhn</title>
    <itunes:summary><![CDATA[🎙️ Join the Real Work Ready Founding Waitlist: https://real-work-ready.kit.com/1e70df47de  Most professionals spend their careers building toward something — a title, a role, a seat at the table. And then one day, the most capable ones do something nobody expects. They walk away from it. Not because they failed. Because they finally figured out who they actually are. In this episode, I sit down with Kelly L. Kuhn — a global executive who spent decades leading at the highest levels of the trav...]]></itunes:summary>
    <description><![CDATA[<p>🎙️ Join the Real Work Ready Founding Waitlist: https://real-work-ready.kit.com/1e70df47de<br/><br/>Most professionals spend their careers building toward something — a title, a role, a seat at the table. And then one day, the most capable ones do something nobody expects. They walk away from it. Not because they failed. Because they finally figured out who they actually are. In this episode, I sit down with Kelly L. Kuhn — a global executive who spent decades leading at the highest levels of the travel and hospitality industry across Asia, the UK, Europe, and the United States. As the first-ever Chief Customer Officer at CWT, she personally led a multi-billion-dollar global P&amp;L and transformed how an entire enterprise thought about its customers. She has built and led high-performing teams across some of the world&apos;s most complex, fast-moving geographies. And then — deliberately, and on her own terms — she stepped away from the executive seat to build something entirely her own: a plural career as a non-executive director on two public company boards, an executive coach, and a trusted advisor to leaders navigating transformational change.<br/>Kelly&apos;s personal philosophy — getting comfortable with being uncomfortable — is not a tagline. It is how she has led across three decades, across continents, and through some of the hardest moments of her career. This conversation is about what that actually looks like in practice. The real definition of a professional brand. What it costs to build credibility across cultures and roles. And what you discover about yourself when the title is gone.<br/>If you are early in your career and trying to understand what a real professional brand means — not the LinkedIn headline version — this episode is for you. If you are navigating a transition and wondering who you are on the other side of it, this one is for you too.<br/>In this episode<br/>The real definition of a professional brand — and why most people confuse it with a title<br/>What three decades of global leadership across Asia, EMEA, and the United States taught Kelly about how trust and credibility are actually built<br/>The difference between a brand you build and a brand you earn — and what it looks like when someone is building the wrong one<br/>The experiences and turning points that most shaped how Kelly leads and how she shows up<br/>What it actually felt like to step away from the executive seat deliberately — and what that transition revealed about who she really was<br/>What a &quot;plural career&quot; is, why Kelly chose it, and what it demands of you<br/>What Kelly is seeing in the executives she coaches today — the gap between how leaders think about their brand and what is actually happening<br/>What virtual and hybrid leadership exposed about the difference between polished and authentic<br/>The windshield versus the rearview mirror — and why that lens changes everything about how you build forward<br/><br/>🔗 Connect with Kelly Kuhn:<br/>LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellylkuhn/<br/>Website: https://www.kellylkuhn.com/<br/><br/>🔗 Connect with Laura:<br/>LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lauramassetti/<br/>Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/realworkreadyhq<br/>Email: mailto:info@realworkready.com<br/>Website: https://www.realworkready.com<br/>No One Tells You This is a Real Work Ready™ podcast. Every episode is a conversation with leaders, executives, and professionals who finally decided to say what nobody said to them — the unwritten rules, the invisible dynamics, and the things that actually determine who succeeds.</p><p><b>Laura Massetti</b><br/>Founder of <b>Real Work Ready™</b></p><p> <a href='http://www.realworkready.com/'>www.realworkready.com</a> Book a call: <a href='https://calendly.com/laura-massetti'>https://calendly.com/laura-massetti</a> LinkedIn: <a href='https://www.linkedin.com/in/lauramassetti/'>https://www.linkedin.com/in/lauramassetti/</a></p>]]></description>
    <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>🎙️ Join the Real Work Ready Founding Waitlist: https://real-work-ready.kit.com/1e70df47de<br/><br/>Most professionals spend their careers building toward something — a title, a role, a seat at the table. And then one day, the most capable ones do something nobody expects. They walk away from it. Not because they failed. Because they finally figured out who they actually are. In this episode, I sit down with Kelly L. Kuhn — a global executive who spent decades leading at the highest levels of the travel and hospitality industry across Asia, the UK, Europe, and the United States. As the first-ever Chief Customer Officer at CWT, she personally led a multi-billion-dollar global P&amp;L and transformed how an entire enterprise thought about its customers. She has built and led high-performing teams across some of the world&apos;s most complex, fast-moving geographies. And then — deliberately, and on her own terms — she stepped away from the executive seat to build something entirely her own: a plural career as a non-executive director on two public company boards, an executive coach, and a trusted advisor to leaders navigating transformational change.<br/>Kelly&apos;s personal philosophy — getting comfortable with being uncomfortable — is not a tagline. It is how she has led across three decades, across continents, and through some of the hardest moments of her career. This conversation is about what that actually looks like in practice. The real definition of a professional brand. What it costs to build credibility across cultures and roles. And what you discover about yourself when the title is gone.<br/>If you are early in your career and trying to understand what a real professional brand means — not the LinkedIn headline version — this episode is for you. If you are navigating a transition and wondering who you are on the other side of it, this one is for you too.<br/>In this episode<br/>The real definition of a professional brand — and why most people confuse it with a title<br/>What three decades of global leadership across Asia, EMEA, and the United States taught Kelly about how trust and credibility are actually built<br/>The difference between a brand you build and a brand you earn — and what it looks like when someone is building the wrong one<br/>The experiences and turning points that most shaped how Kelly leads and how she shows up<br/>What it actually felt like to step away from the executive seat deliberately — and what that transition revealed about who she really was<br/>What a &quot;plural career&quot; is, why Kelly chose it, and what it demands of you<br/>What Kelly is seeing in the executives she coaches today — the gap between how leaders think about their brand and what is actually happening<br/>What virtual and hybrid leadership exposed about the difference between polished and authentic<br/>The windshield versus the rearview mirror — and why that lens changes everything about how you build forward<br/><br/>🔗 Connect with Kelly Kuhn:<br/>LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellylkuhn/<br/>Website: https://www.kellylkuhn.com/<br/><br/>🔗 Connect with Laura:<br/>LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lauramassetti/<br/>Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/realworkreadyhq<br/>Email: mailto:info@realworkready.com<br/>Website: https://www.realworkready.com<br/>No One Tells You This is a Real Work Ready™ podcast. Every episode is a conversation with leaders, executives, and professionals who finally decided to say what nobody said to them — the unwritten rules, the invisible dynamics, and the things that actually determine who succeeds.</p><p><b>Laura Massetti</b><br/>Founder of <b>Real Work Ready™</b></p><p> <a href='http://www.realworkready.com/'>www.realworkready.com</a> Book a call: <a href='https://calendly.com/laura-massetti'>https://calendly.com/laura-massetti</a> LinkedIn: <a href='https://www.linkedin.com/in/lauramassetti/'>https://www.linkedin.com/in/lauramassetti/</a></p>]]></content:encoded>
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    <pubDate>Tue, 07 Apr 2026 13:00:00 -0400</pubDate>
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    <itunes:title>Episode 1: Welcome to No One Tells You This | This Is Why I Built It</itunes:title>
    <title>Episode 1: Welcome to No One Tells You This | This Is Why I Built It</title>
    <itunes:summary><![CDATA[Most people spend years figuring out the unwritten rules of work on their own. Not because they aren’t smart enough. Because nobody ever told them. This is the show that should have existed years ago. In this first episode, I share why I built No One Tells You This — and who it is for. After 15 years of building and leading teams, I kept watching the same thing happen: capable, motivated professionals working incredibly hard and still getting it wrong. Not because of a lack of talent or effor...]]></itunes:summary>
    <description><![CDATA[<p><b>Most people spend years figuring out the unwritten rules of work on their own.</b></p><p><b>Not because they aren’t smart enough. Because nobody ever told them.</b></p><p><b>This is the show that should have existed years ago.</b></p><p><b>In this first episode, I share why I built No One Tells You This — and who it is for. After 15 years of building and leading teams, I kept watching the same thing happen: capable, motivated professionals working incredibly hard and still getting it wrong. Not because of a lack of talent or effort, but because they were operating without a map. Nobody taught them how work actually operates — the unspoken rules, the invisible standards, the things that determine who gets trusted, who gets promoted, and who quietly gets left behind.</b></p><p><b>The hardest part? Most people carry real shame around not knowing. Like everyone else already figured it out — and they somehow missed it.</b></p><p><b>They didn’t miss it. Nobody told them.</b></p><p><b>That’s what this show is. Professional mentoring at scale — the kind everyone wishes they’d had. Every episode, I sit down with leaders, managers, and professionals who are finally willing to say what nobody said to them.</b></p><p><b>THIS SHOW IS FOR YOU IF</b></p><ul><li><b>You are early in your career and feel like you are always one step behind</b></li><li><b>You are a manager who is tired of watching talented people struggle with things that were never explained to them</b></li><li><b>You are an executive or HR leader who knows this is a system problem — not a people problem</b></li><li><b>You have ever worked incredibly hard and still felt completely lost</b></li></ul><p><b>🔗 Connect with Laura:</b></p><p><b>LinkedIn: </b><a href='https://www.linkedin.com/in/lauramassetti/'><b>https://www.linkedin.com/in/lauramassetti/</b></a></p><p><b>Instagram: </b><a href='https://www.instagram.com/realworkreadyhq'><b>https://www.instagram.com/realworkreadyhq</b></a></p><p><b>Email: info@realworkready.com</b></p><p><b>Website: </b><a href='https://www.realworkready.com'><b>https://www.realworkready.com</b></a></p><p><b>Laura Massetti</b><br/>Founder of <b>Real Work Ready™</b></p><p> <a href='http://www.realworkready.com/'>www.realworkready.com</a> Book a call: <a href='https://calendly.com/laura-massetti'>https://calendly.com/laura-massetti</a> LinkedIn: <a href='https://www.linkedin.com/in/lauramassetti/'>https://www.linkedin.com/in/lauramassetti/</a></p>]]></description>
    <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>Most people spend years figuring out the unwritten rules of work on their own.</b></p><p><b>Not because they aren’t smart enough. Because nobody ever told them.</b></p><p><b>This is the show that should have existed years ago.</b></p><p><b>In this first episode, I share why I built No One Tells You This — and who it is for. After 15 years of building and leading teams, I kept watching the same thing happen: capable, motivated professionals working incredibly hard and still getting it wrong. Not because of a lack of talent or effort, but because they were operating without a map. Nobody taught them how work actually operates — the unspoken rules, the invisible standards, the things that determine who gets trusted, who gets promoted, and who quietly gets left behind.</b></p><p><b>The hardest part? Most people carry real shame around not knowing. Like everyone else already figured it out — and they somehow missed it.</b></p><p><b>They didn’t miss it. Nobody told them.</b></p><p><b>That’s what this show is. Professional mentoring at scale — the kind everyone wishes they’d had. Every episode, I sit down with leaders, managers, and professionals who are finally willing to say what nobody said to them.</b></p><p><b>THIS SHOW IS FOR YOU IF</b></p><ul><li><b>You are early in your career and feel like you are always one step behind</b></li><li><b>You are a manager who is tired of watching talented people struggle with things that were never explained to them</b></li><li><b>You are an executive or HR leader who knows this is a system problem — not a people problem</b></li><li><b>You have ever worked incredibly hard and still felt completely lost</b></li></ul><p><b>🔗 Connect with Laura:</b></p><p><b>LinkedIn: </b><a href='https://www.linkedin.com/in/lauramassetti/'><b>https://www.linkedin.com/in/lauramassetti/</b></a></p><p><b>Instagram: </b><a href='https://www.instagram.com/realworkreadyhq'><b>https://www.instagram.com/realworkreadyhq</b></a></p><p><b>Email: info@realworkready.com</b></p><p><b>Website: </b><a href='https://www.realworkready.com'><b>https://www.realworkready.com</b></a></p><p><b>Laura Massetti</b><br/>Founder of <b>Real Work Ready™</b></p><p> <a href='http://www.realworkready.com/'>www.realworkready.com</a> Book a call: <a href='https://calendly.com/laura-massetti'>https://calendly.com/laura-massetti</a> LinkedIn: <a href='https://www.linkedin.com/in/lauramassetti/'>https://www.linkedin.com/in/lauramassetti/</a></p>]]></content:encoded>
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    <itunes:author>Laura Massetti, Founder of Real Work Ready™</itunes:author>
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    <pubDate>Wed, 01 Apr 2026 15:00:00 -0400</pubDate>
    <itunes:duration>93</itunes:duration>
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