To hear from supporters about where they see the movement heading, we’re joined by Zen Honeycutt, Aaron Everitt, Elizabeth Frost, Jeff Hutt and Mark Harris. Each has been deeply involved in or closely aligned with MAHA, including several who worked on Kennedy’s presidential campaign. They represent very different priorities and hold different views of where the movement has gone. Some remain committed; others have grown disillusioned or walked away. 

We’re also joined by former Congressman Tim Ryan, a longtime Democrat, who held MAHA-congruent positions on food and agriculture years before MAHA was a slogan on a hat. Where does he see the movement going from here?   

And then there’s the bigger question: If roughly four in ten Americans support many of the aspirations behind MAHA, what does that foreshadow for the future of our politics?

Hosts:

Brinda Adhikari

Tom Johnson

Maggie Bartlett

Dr. Mark Abdelmalek (off)

Guests:

Zen Honeycutt, Moms Across America

Jeff Hutt, former National Field Director, Kennedy Campaign

Aaron Everitt, former Kennedy Campaign volunteer

Elizabeth Frost, MAHA Ohio

Mark Harris, former Kennedy campaign supporter

former Congressman Tim Ryan (D-OH)

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And in choosing sides, are we at risk of turning one horrific case into evidence for conclusions that go far beyond what this particular tragedy can actually tell us?

We’re joined by two psychiatrists and an ER physician today to talk about all this. 

Hosts:

Brinda Adhikari

Tom Johnson

Maggie Bartlett

Dr. Mark Abdelmalek

Guests:

Dr. Julia Riddle, a reproductive psychiatrist and researcher focused on reproductive mental health. She is an Assistant Professor at the UNC Center for Women's Mood Disorders, where she runs a clinic for patients. 

Dr. Anne Zink, emergency medicine physician and public health leader who served as Chief Medical Officer for the State of Alaska before and during the pandemic. Senior Fellow at the Yale School of Public Health

Dr. Bryan Shapiro, a psychiatrist at UC Irvine Medical Center, treating outpatients and training primary care physicians & nurse practitioners on prescribing psychiatric medications.  He is the Medical Director at Outro, a company in which he has a financial stake, and which works to safely taper patients off antidepressants.

Resources:

National Maternal Mental Health Hotline: 1-833-TLC-MAMA

National Suicide Prevention Hotline: 1-800-273-8255

988 Suicide and Crisis Lifeline .  Call or text 988, or chat at 988lifeline.org

For training MDs/DO/NPs/PAs: https://ncrptraining.org/ 

NCMatter Access Line Toolkits: https://www.med.unc.edu/ncmatters/provider-tools/toolkits/

OB Tool kits: https://www.mcpapformoms.org/Toolkits/Toolkit.aspx?AspxAutoDetectCookieSupport=1

PSI international: https://postpartum.net

Postpartum Support International 1-833-943-5746

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In the wake of COVID, with trust in public health fractured and many Americans viewing the field as partisan, Galea is advocating that his field engage rather than draw lines. He believes public health will be stronger if it listens to all sides and embraces disagreement while still advocating for its values. He argues that the strategy is to widen the tent rather than shrink it, without compromising science or principles, or engaging with bad-faith actors.

The approach raises a critical question: as public health endures crippling funding cuts, vaccine policy is in turmoil, Medicaid faces major spending reductions, and trust in scientific expertise is low, is this the time for public health to reach across the divide, or resist and fight? 

Hosts:

Brinda Adhikari

Tom Johnson

Maggie Bartlett

Dr. Mark Abdelmalek (off this wk)

Guest:

Dr. Sandro Galea, Dean of the Bursky School of Public Health at Washington University in St. Louis. 

Substack:

https://sandrogalea.substack.com/

Author of Why Health? What We Need to Think About When We Think About Health

Purple Public Health:

https://healthierfutureslab.org/research/purple-public-health

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The order reduces the number of vaccines recommended universally for children from 17 to 11, calls for the MMR vaccine to be broken up into three separate shots, and directs the administration to explore spacing childhood vaccines out across separate visits. It also directs the Department of Justice to examine whether parents’ rights are being protected in states that do not offer religious exemptions from school vaccination requirements.

So…what exactly happened yesterday? Does it actually change anything? How are frontline doctors and MAHA supporters processing the President’s controversial comments at the signing ceremony? Is this latest effort to overhaul the schedule heading straight back to the courts? And how might this high-profile move affect the nation’s growing health polarization and eroding trust in public health?

Hosts:

Brinda Adhikari

Tom Johnson

Maggie Bartlett

Dr. Mark Abdelmalek (on call)

Guests:

Dr. Debra Houry, former Chief Medical Officer, CDC; emergency physician

Dr. Joel "Gator" Warsh, pediatrician, Integrative Pediatrics; substack author Between a Shot and a Hard Place

Dr. Craig Spencer, ER physician, professor Brown School of Public Health

Nancy Fuller, MAHA supporter, mother to a son with autism and epilepsy

Sources:

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/2026/07/public-health-maha-rfk/688014/?gift=jf1JNTlPW3HiCUoNqhv9pL4QDDQrO5E0bwhsoINyCrk

https://drgator.substack.com/p/breaking-trump-just-tried-to-rewrite

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Defenders of Europe's lower use of air conditioning argue that simply installing more AC isn't the answer. Critics say: this has gone too far. Too many people are dying. Just get air conditioning already.

But beneath this debate are some very big questions: What do we owe one another in a warming world? What does adaptation look like? And who bears the costs when our solutions create new problems?

Hosts:

Brinda Adhikari

Tom Johnson (off)

Maggie Bartlett

Dr. Mark Abdelmalek (off)

Guests:

Noah Smith, economist, publisher of Noahopinion substack.

Thomas Chatterton Williams, staff writer The Atlantic,, author of Summer of Our Discontent and Self Portrait in Black and White.

David Wallace Wells, writer/columnist, The New York Times.  Author The Uninhabitable Earth: Life After Warming. 

Related articles by our guests:

Europe's Resistance to Air Conditioning is Driving It Insane: Noah Smith

https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/europes-resistance-to-ac-is-driving

The Overlooked Reason Why Europe Doesn't Have AC: Thomas Chatterton Williams

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/2026/06/europe-heat-wave-air-conditioning/687729/

We Need to Retrofit the Planet. The Heat Wave Proves It: David Wallace Wells

https://www.nytimes.com/2026/07/01/opinion/heat-wave-europe-america.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share

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This week, those worlds collided in a Senate hearing room as the retired former director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases was subpoenaed to testify before an inquiry led by his longtime critic, Republican Senator Rand Paul. Fauci accused the senator of having an "unhinged obsession" with him and seeing him sent to jail before invoking his Fifth Amendment right and declining to answer questions. Senator Paul, in turn, accused Fauci of deception and of refusing to accept responsibility.

In today's episode, we ask: Why, six years after the pandemic began, are we still talking about Anthony Fauci? Was this hearing a legitimate effort to uncover new facts about COVID-19's origins, assign accountability and learn from the past, or was it driven by political point scoring and vengeance? 

Joining us are Dr. Katelyn Jetelina of Your Local Epidemiologist and David Wallace-Wells of The New York Times to unpack what remains one of the most consequential and bitter public health debates of our time.

Hosts:

Brinda Adhikari

Tom Johnson

Maggie Bartlett

Dr. Mark Abdelmalek

Guests:

Katelyn Jetelina, founder and CEO of Your Local Epidemiologist

David Wallace-Wells, columnist and opinion writer, The New York Times

Jetelina on Fauci:

https://yourlocalepidemiologist.substack.com/p/its-time-to-leave-the-man-alone

Wallace-Wells on Fauci:

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2023/04/24/magazine/dr-fauci-pandemic.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share

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Brinda Adhikari

Tom Johnson

Maggie Bartlett

Dr. Mark Abdelmalek

Guests:

Aaron Everitt, Ft. Collins, Colorado

Jeff Hutt, Corpus Christi, Texas

Lori O'Connell, Darlington, Pennsylvania

Daniel DeLuca, Athens, Ohio

Theresa Dixon, Frederick, Maryland

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In this episode, the two physicians discuss what allowed the outbreak to spiral, the geopolitical priorities that shape the world's response to outbreaks (too often reacting to crises rather than investing in preparedness), whether the dismantling of parts of America's global health infrastructure played a role, and what America's role should be in supporting global public health going forward. Dr. Malone also opens up about his break with the MAHA movement and its leadership, and where he disagrees with the administration's approach to global public health.

Hosts:

Brinda Adhikari

Tom Johnson

Dr. Mark Abdelmalek

Maggie Bartlett (producer)

Guests:

Dr. Robert Malone, physician, vaccine researcher. 

Dr. Craig Spencer, physician, public health professor Brown School of Public Health.

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A year later, what actually happened?

We speak with two individuals who know the agency and aid landscape, inside and out: Andrew Natsios, who served as USAID administrator under President George W. Bush, and Jeremy Konyndyk, a senior USAID official under the Obama and Biden administrations.

Did the warnings about the human cost of cutting aid come true? What reforms did USAID need but never receive? How much authority should a president have to reshape America's foreign aid? And what does the dismantling of USAID mean for America's role in the world?

This is a conversation about the future of U.S. foreign aid, one year after one of the most consequential changes to American foreign policy in generations.

Hosts:

Brinda Adhikari

Tom Johnson

Maggie Bartlett (producer)

Dr. Mark Abdelmalek (off)

Guests:

Andrew Natsios, former head of USAID under George W. Bush 2001-2006; author of Guns Are Not Enough: Foreign Aid in the National Interest; teaches at the Bush School of Government at Texas A and M University

Jeremy Konyndyk, president of Refugees International and a former senior USAID official who served in both the Obama and Biden administrations, leading its response to everything from Ebola to Covid-19. 

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They expected to witness President Trump sign an executive order promoting the kind of farming they've spent decades championing: bringing the natural ecosystem back to the farm, and thus restoring soil health and reducing reliance on pesticides.

Instead, they found themselves in the middle of a last-minute policy debate involving President Trump, HHS Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr., USDA Secretary Brooke Rollins, and Farm Bureau President Zippy Duvall.

What did that moment reveal about the competing pressures on the administration? More broadly, can regenerative agriculture move beyond a niche movement? And how do its advocates respond to critics who argue that today's farming methods work, are proven safe, and that transitioning away from them is impractical?

This week, we're joined by regenerative farming pioneers Will Harris and Dr. Jonathan Lundgren to discuss what they witnessed in the Oval Office and whether we are moving closer to a regenerative farming future. 

Hosts:

Brinda Adhikari

Tom Johnson

Maggie Bartlett

Dr. Mark Abdelmalek (off)

Guests:

Will Harris, fourth-generation cattleman and the owner of White Oak Pastures in Bluffton, Georgia, He has served as President of the Board of Georgia Organics and as Beef Director for the American Grassfed Association.

Dr. Jonathan Lundgren, agro-ecologist and the founder of the Ecdysis Foundation and Blue Dasher Farm in Estelline, South Dakota. Spent more than a decade as a scientist with the U.S. Department of Agriculture.

An essay by Jon Jon Lundgren on the meeting:

https://www.ecdysis.bio/post/five-minutes

Politico:

https://www.politico.com/news/2026/07/01/trump-oval-maha-policy-live-debate-00983992

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In the age of medical freedom and MAHA, libertarian ideas are helping shape debates over vaccines, public health, food regulation, and the role of government. But what exactly is libertarianism? Why has it become so persuasive to so many Americans? And where does today's movement depart from its roots?

Our guest is Katherine Mangu-Ward, Editor-in-Chief of Reason magazine, the country's leading libertarian publication.

We trace the history of modern libertarianism and its influence on today's politics from marijuana legalization and same-sex marriage to debates over tariffs, war, immigration enforcement, and executive power. We also examine where libertarian principles intersect with, and sometimes clash with, MAHA, asking whether a philosophy centered on individual liberty can support vaccine requirements, pesticide bans, or greater government regulation of the food industry.

Hosts:

Brinda Adhikari

Tom Johnson

Maggie Bartlett (off)

Dr. Mark Abdelmalek (off)

Guest:

Katherine Mangu-Ward, editor-in-chief, Reason magazine, widely considered the nation's most famous publication dedicated to libertarian ideas. 
Frequent guest author in the New York Times and other publications. 

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Our panel today represents a powerful, impassioned, and yes, unusual alliance, given MAHA's union with the Republican Party and President Trump. Today, we hear their reactions to this major ruling.

With the Court ruling 7–2 that federal law gives the EPA the final say over pesticide warning labels, thousands of pending lawsuits against Bayer-Monsanto will be impacted, marking a win for the company and the Trump administration, which took its side, as well as a significant moment in the ongoing debate over glyphosate.

What does the decision mean for this bipartisan coalition united in support of the legal fight against glyphosate and for a future in which American farms transition away from its use? With MAHA and the Trump administration finding themselves on opposite sides in this case, where does the ruling leave that partnership? And finally, we hear about the formation of a new game plan for the movement opposing this ruling. 

Hosts:

Brinda Adhikari

Tom Johnson

Maggie Bartlett (producer)

Dr. Mark Abdelmalek (off)

Guests:

Sen. Cory Booker (D-NJ)

Zen Honeycutt, MAHA activist, Moms Across America

Rep. Chellie Pingree (D-ME)

Kelly Ryerson, MAHA Activist, Glyphosate Girl

former Rep. Tim Ryan (D-OH)

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Fighting misinformation is seen as one of the defining challenges of our time. The term itself can be polarizing. And what if we're thinking about it all wrong?

In this episode, we speak with researchers Michael Simeone and Kristy Roschke, who recently published a peer-reviewed article in a journal in the Nature portfolio, proposing a new framework for understanding why misinformation spreads. Their central argument is a surprising one: misinformation doesn't spread simply because people are uninformed, uneducated, or unable to distinguish fact from fiction. It spreads because it provides value--a coherent explanation amidst uncertainty and conflicting facts, reinforces identities, strengthens communities, and satisfies emotional and social needs. They also factor in the value misinformation might have for a broader community, a commercial platform, or AI. 

Rather than asking, "How did people fall for this?", they encourage us to ask a different question: "What is this information doing for them?"

The conversation challenges common assumptions about health literacy, fact-checking, and who is susceptible to misinformation (answer: all of us). In an era of algorithms, AI, and increasingly personalized realities, Simeone and Roschke argue that understanding misinformation requires us to look beyond individual biases to examine the broader social and technological systems we all help create.

Hosts:

Brinda Adhikari

Tom Johnson

Maggie Bartlett

Dr. Mark Abdelmalek

Guests:

Michael Simeone, co-lead of the Information Competition Lab at Arizona State University’s School for Complex Adaptive Systems and serves on the senior leadership team for the Global Futures Laboratory’s Decision Theater

Kristy Roschke,  Associate Research Professor of Communication of Science and Technology; Executive Director of the McGee Applied Research Center for Narrative Studies Vanderbilt University

Source:

Value and Vulnerability: A Framework for Understanding the Complexity of Misinformation Use

https://www.nature.com/articles/s44260-026-00079-x

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He oversees the government programs that provide health coverage to nearly half of all Americans and account for roughly a quarter of federal spending.

At this moment of enormous change, what does Dr. Oz see as his mission?

Alongside Vice President JD Vance, he has been tasked with rooting out fraud. He argues this effort, along with changes to Medicaid in the One Big Beautiful Act, will strengthen thesafety net and preserve it for the Americans it was intended to serve.

However, an official nonpartisan government estimate finds that compared with the previous law, the new law will result in hundreds of billions fewer federal dollars going to Medicaid over the next decade and millions more Americans becoming uninsured. Dr. Oz insists America will spend more on Medicaid, not less. We ask him about that.

We'll also dig into a larger question at the heart of this debate: Was the ACA's expansion of Medicaid—which has covered roughly 20 million additional Americans—ultimately a good thing? 

And finally, we ask Dr. Oz, a renowned heart surgeon whose career was built on medical expertise, what he makes of this moment in America, where trust in experts is falling. Is growing skepticism a healthy correction, or is it taking us somewhere more troubling?

Hosts:

Brinda Adhikari

Tom Johnson

Dr. Mark Abdelmalek

Maggie Bartlett (producer)

Khushi Patel (research)

Isabella Didie (research)

**Recorded at Switch & Board Studios in Washington, DC.

Guest: 

Dr. Mehmet Oz, Administrator for the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services

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Long before MAHA, Booker was raising the very concerns now at the heart of the movement. But while much of his party has greeted MAHA with suspicion and hostility, Booker is making a different argument: Democrats should find common ground wherever possible.

So where, exactly, does he see common ground with MAHA? Can Democrats work with the movement while fiercely disagreeing on vaccines and other critical issues? And how does he answer critics in his own party who see MAHA not as a health movement but as an extension of MAGA?

Today, as he pitches a new coalition: why should MAHA trust him?  And why should his own party?

Hosts:

Brinda Adhikari

Tom Johnson

Maggie Bartlett (producer)

Dr. Mark Abdelmalek

Guest:

Senator Cory Booker, D-NJ

New to us? Check out these three episodes to get a taste! 

Inside A Rare Conversation Between MAHA Grassroots and Public Health Leaders

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/why-should-i-trust-you/id1788335471?i=1000706783000

The Hepatitis B Birth Dose Vaccine: Do We Need It? An Honest Conversation w Dr. Paul Offit & Dr. Michael Mina

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/why-should-i-trust-you/id1788335471?i=1000727322530

A Conversation with Dr. Jay Bhattacharya: On the NIH, CDC, Funding, DEI & His Vision For Doing Science

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/why-should-i-trust-you/id1788335471?i=1000751774699

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AI now has us confronting fundamental questions about winners and losers, promises of medical breakthroughs versus warnings of widespread job displacement, and whether the new technology encourages us to offload difficult thinking or frees us to think more deeply. And right in the middle of all these questions is the generation coming of age at the same time as AI.

So, today, we've gathered Gen Zers, high school students, college students, recent graduates, young professionals, and people entering the trades. We discuss the issues surrounding AI, especially its impact on education and work, which are already shaping their lives.

How do they see the opportunities and risks of AI? What excites them? What worries them? Ultimately, what kind of future do they want to build and what kind of lives do they want to lead?

Hosts:

Brinda Adhikari

Tom Johnson

Maggie Bartlett

Dr. Mark Abdelmalek

Guests:

Elizabeth Frost

Khushi Patel

Sawyer Everitt

Bryson Craven

Rotimi Kukoyi

Matt Geistler

Keren Michelle-Asare

Rohan Licht

Michael D. Green

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So what’s driving the increase? There are several culprits, including a body of research associating exposure to the farm herbicide Paraquat. Paraquat is banned in 70 countries. At the same time, in America, the EPA and other major reviews say the evidence still falls short of proving a direct causal link.

We speak with one of the nation’s leading Parkinson’s researchers, Dr. Ray Dorsey, along with a man living with Parkinson’s after decades during which he says he was exposed to Paraquat.

But this story goes beyond one chemical or one disease. It’s about how we should make decisions regarding health amidst conflicting perspectives over science, data, warning signs, and painful lived experiences.

Hosts:

Brinda Adhikari

Tom Johnson

Maggie Bartlett

Dr. Mark Abdelmalek

Guests:

Steve Brandenburg, worked for 30 years as a producer on a video team in the agricultural industry. He has since been diagnosed with Parkinson’s disease. He  hosts a podcast called “The Secret Life of Parkinson’s".

Dr. Ray Dorsey, neurologist and one of the country's leading researchers on Parkinson's disease. He is the Director of the Center for the Brain and Environment with Atria Health and Research Institute.

Research on Paraquat and Parkinson's

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21269927/

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMra2401857?utm_source=openevidence

https://www.uclahealth.org/news/article/paraquat-pesticide-parkinsons-disease#:~:text=A%20common%20pesticide%20called%20paraquat,can%20cause%20the%20movement%20disorder

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11491592/

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S147444222500287X

EPA on Paraquat and Parkinson's

https://www.epa.gov/ingredients-used-pesticide-products/paraquat-dichloride

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First, the political earthquake rocking MAHA: Kentucky Republican Thomas Massie's defeat in his primary after a full-force effort by President Trump and MAGA. Massie was beloved by many in MAHA as an independent-minded fighter willing to challenge both parties and powerful interests. Where does this leave the MAHA-MAGA alliance? 

Then we turn to the outbreaks of Ebola and Hantavirus. How is the group processing the emergence of these outbreaks, especially after this administration dismantled USAID, which long supported disease surveillance and relief in hot spots, including the site of the current Ebola outbreak? 

Hosts:

Brinda Adhikari

Tom Johnson

Maggie Bartlett

Dr. Mark Abdelmalek (off)

Guests:

Aaron Everitt, video journalist, writer Besides the Revolution, House InHabit, former Kennedy campaign volunteer.

Elizabeth Frost, co-founder MAHA Ohio, Independent Force Consultants, former Kennedy campaign grassroots organizer.

Jeff Hutt, former National Field Director for the Kennedy campaign; former spokesperson for the MAHA PAC.

Dr. Nahid Bhadelia,  infectious disease physician, Associate Professor at Boston University School of Medicine,  founding director of the Center for Emerging Infectious Diseases Policy and Research.

Dr. Craig Spencer, emergency medicine physician and Associate Professor at Brown University School of Public Health.

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In her words, Stolberg covers “the intersection of health policy and politics,” a job to which she brings decades of experience covering federal health agencies, Congress, and two presidencies as a White House correspondent for the Times. Before joining the Times, she shared two Pulitzer Prizes for reporting at The Los Angeles Times on racial unrest and an earthquake.

We talk with Stolberg about covering the MAHA movement and Kennedy, including the movement’s internal dynamics, the Secretary’s successes and setbacks at HHS, and fresh reporting on the resignation of FDA Commissioner Marty Makary. In addition, we discuss what it’s like working as a reporter during a time in which trust in the mainstream media has fallen.

Finally, we take up the subject that sits at the center of our discussions about health today—the breakdown in trust in public health, and specifically in the federal health institutions she covers. The history of that breakdown is the focus of a book Stolberg is working on.

Hosts:

Brinda Adhikari

Tom Johnson

Maggie Bartlett

Dr. Mark Abdelmalek

Tom and I wrote a piece, check it out!
It's Time to Blow Up The Public Health Events Model:

https://whyshoulditrustyou.substack.com/p/its-time-to-blow-up-the-public-health

Guest:

Sheryl Gay Stolberg, correspondent for the New York Times, covering healthy policy and politics, Robert F. Kennedy Jr. and MAHA. 

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But what actually creates meaningful change?

For some, it means tearing broken institutions down to the studs and rebuilding from scratch. For others, it means reforming those institutions while preserving expertise and what still works. Either way, the question remains: how do you turn shared values into sustainable, far-reaching change?

Our guest today, Greg Satell, author of Cascades: How to Create a Movement that Drives Transformational Change, has spent years studying how change actually happens. What drives people to adopt change? What are the classic mistakes that prevent movements from succeeding? And in the case of both the Make America Healthy Again movement and traditional public health — two groups that want Americans to be healthier — what are they getting right, and what are they getting wrong in their drive for change?

And then there’s us.

We began this podcast as a way to get some understanding of the collapse in public health, science, and medicine. Now, as we try to move beyond diagnosing the problem and toward fostering collaboration and action, what lessons does Satell have for us?

Hosts:

Brinda Adhikari

Tom Johnson

Maggie Bartlett (off)

Dr. Mark Abdelmalek (off)

Guest:

Greg Satell, entrepreneur, business executive, author Cascades: How to Create a Movement that Drives Transformational Change

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Long before it had a name, Ryan was championing many of the ideas now fueling the “MAHA” movement: nutritious, “real” food (he wrote The Real Food Revolution back in 2014), regenerative agriculture, openness to alternative therapies, and a reassessment of the unhealthy systems taxpayer dollars continue to support. Then he watched the movement take off and align with the Republican Party.

In this episode, Ryan reflects on what it’s been like to see his long-held priorities suddenly gain traction. We ask about tensions around vaccines and whether MAHA’s alignment with MAGA is ultimately sustainable.

Most importantly, we dig into his message for Democrats: embrace a modern, forward-looking health agenda that meets Americans where they are—while also calling out Republicans for, in his view, policies that run counter to what MAHA claims to stand for.

Hosts: 

Brinda Adhikari

Tom Johnson

Maggie Bartlett

Dr. Mark Abdelmalek

Guest:

Former Congressman Tim Ryan (D-OH), who served 10 terms in the United States House of Representatives.

Recent articles by Tim Ryan on MAHA and health politics in America:

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/republicans-believe-maha-backing-farm-bill

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2026/mar/05/democrats-rfk-jr-maha-healthy-food

https://www.statnews.com/2026/04/28/microplastics-nanoplastics-health-epa-trump-arpa-h/

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Brinda Adhikari

Tom Johnson

Maggie Bartlett (producer)

Dr. Mark Abdelmalek (seeing patients)

Guests:

Rep. Thomas Massie (R-KY)

Sen. Cory Booker (D-NJ)

Alex Clark, TPUSA, MAHA

Del Bigtree, High Wire, ICAN

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Today, we’re joined by Daniel Crowley, who goes by Max. He is a behavioral scientist and endowed chair at Penn State. His argument: universities produce groundbreaking research, but too often it sits on a shelf, never reaching the decision-makers who could use it to improve lives.

That disconnect may help explain part of the decline in trust. Of course, many factors are driving that trend, from costs, to admissions practices, and perceptions of elitism, to name a few captured in a new report from Yale University.

Crowley believes that building better systems to translate research to everyone from members of Congress to local leaders to the public itself could help turn that trust slide around.

Hosts:

Brinda Adhikari

Tom Johnson

Maggie Bartlett (off)

Dr. Mark Abdelmalek (off)

Guest:

Daniel Max Crowley, director of the Prevention Research Center at Penn State University and a prevention scientist investigating how to optimize investments in healthy development and well-being.

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When it comes to Medicaid fraud specifically, do you see this administration's recent actions towards states such as Minnesota as a well-meaning push to take on the bad actors and lax state oversight that has allowed this taxpayer-supported safety net to be exploited? Or do you see it as a political talking point being used to suggest widespread abuse when there is not, to justify cutting that very safety net? Or is this an abhorrent scam for which we just don't see eye to eye on the solution? 

The truth is, your answer may depend on where you get your information, who you trust, and how you’ve experienced the system yourself.

In today’s episode, we dig into that divide. What do we actually know about healthcare fraud in America—and what is rhetoric versus reality? We bring together Trump and MAHA supporters, including a mother whose child was covered by Medicaid, along with a health reporter from Minnesota and experts on Medicaid program integrity, to ask: how big is the problem really, are we focused on the right issues, and what can we actually agree on?

Hosts:

Brinda Adhikari

Tom Johnson

Maggie Bartlett

Dr. Mark Abdelmalek

Guests:

Jacqueline Capriotti, founder and CEO of Health Revolution USA, small business owner and mother of two adults with cystic fibrosis, worked on the Kennedy/MAHA campaign. 

Aaron Everitt, writer and Substacker for Besides the Revolution and House inHabit volunteered for Kennedy campaign. 

Eleanor Hildebrandt, reporter at the Minnesota Star Tribune, has covered the Medicaid fraud issue on the ground there in that state.

Andy Schneider, health policy expert at Georgetown’s McCourt School who served as a senior advisor at the Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services during the Obama administration.

Joel White, President of the Council for Affordable Health Coverage who served as the Staff Director for the U.S. House Committee on Ways and Means.

Wilk Wilkinson, host of the Derate the Hate podcast and director of Media Operations for Braver Angels. 

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Now, Moderna is using that same technology to push into new frontiers, developing treatments for cancers like melanoma and lung cancer. While at the same time, mistrust of mRNA and of the pharmaceutical industry more broadly has only grown.

We discuss with Dr. Hoge his company's latest innovations in cancer treatment as well as an mRNA-based flu vaccine they are hoping to have available before the next flu season. We discuss what it's like to try and innovate using a platform that many Americans, coming off the pandemic experience, do not trust. And we talk about whether using mRNA as a tool against cancer might yield a different reception.  

Hosts:

Brinda Adhikari

Tom Johnson

Maggie Bartlett

Dr. Mark Abdelmalek

Guest:

Dr. Stephen Hoge, President of Moderna

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We break it all down.

Then, the main event: the administration’s crackdown on what it calls “DEI” research has scuttled studies on racial health disparities. But that raises a deeper question: was the system working in the first place? The gap in life expectancy between Black and white Americans persists.

Our guest is health equity researcher Jerel Ezell. He’s critical of the current cuts but also of how this research has been done for years. So what does he think is broken? What needs to change? And what’s at stake if we get this wrong?

Hosts:

Brinda Adhikari

Tom Johnson

Maggie Bartlett

Dr. Mark Abdelmalek

Guest:

Dr. Jerel Ezell, sociologist and public health researcher, he worked as an epidemiologist in Detroit and Chicago. He’s now an assistant professor in Infectious Diseases and Global Health at the University of Chicago, and has taught at Cornell and UC Berkeley. His research focuses on opioid use, environmental health, and the long-term human impact of crises like the Flint water crisis, with a growing emphasis on AI and equity.

The One Area Where Trump’s N.I.H. Cuts Might Actually Make Sense

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/06/13/opinion/health-disparities-nih.html

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xo,

WSITY team

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We’re joined by two of the scientists featured in the film: Dr. Shanna Swan of the Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai, a leading researcher on endocrine-disrupting chemicals and reproductive health, and Dr. Jasmine McDonald of the Columbia University Mailman School of Public Health, an epidemiologist who studies how environmental exposures may shape long-term health.

Take a look around your home, and if you’re anything like us, you’ll see plastic everywhere. Food wrappers, toothbrushes, detergents, carpets, it’s woven into nearly every part of daily life.

So what impact is all of this plastic having on us? And more specifically, is it playing a role (and if so, how big a role) in our falling birth rates? Many plastics contain chemicals known as endocrine disruptors. What do we know about how that might be impacting us? And, impacting a couple's ability to have a baby. 

Hosts:

Brinda Adhikari

Tom Johnson

Maggie Bartlett (off)

Dr. Mark Abdelmalek (off)

Guests:

Dr. Shanna Swan, reproductive health epidemiologist, professor at the Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai.

Dr. Jasmine McDonald, molecular epidemiologist, professor at Columbia University's Mailman School of Public Health.

Sources:

The Plastic Detox

https://www.netflix.com/title/82074244

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Yes, this is about rising health care costs—a visceral concern and a growing factor in the upcoming elections—driven in part by expiring ACA subsidies and potential Medicaid cuts. But it’s also about nutrition, school lunches, ultra-processed foods, and pesticides. This isn’t the old “for or against Obamacare” debate. The lines are shifting, and MAHA sits right in the middle of it all.

As one political analyst put it, “Health care policy is going to be a top issue in all competitive House races this cycle.” So at a time when Americans are deeply concerned about the cost of daily life, where does health care fit in? How do people feel about MAHA’s nutrition agenda, pesticides and pollution, or changes to childhood vaccine guidance?

We’re joined by polling analysts Liz Hamel and Ashley Kirzinger from KFF, and Melissa Toufanian of Navigator Research—along with our friend Aaron Everitt, a MAHA supporter and writer.

Hosts:

Brinda Adhikari

Tom Johnson

Maggie Bartlett

Dr. Mark Abdelmalek (off)

Guests:

Liz Hamel,  senior vice president and director of public opinion and survey research, KFF

Ashley Kirzinger, director of survey methodology and associate director for public opinion and survey research, KFF

Melissa Toufanian, managing director, Navigator Research

Aaron Everitt, MAHA supporter, writer for Besides the Revolution, Kennedy supporter, writer for House InHabit

Why MAHA Needs Public Health by Aaron Everitt

https://besidestherevolution.substack.com/p/why-maha-needs-public-health

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The Make America Healthy Again movement is nearly always associated with MAGA and the Republican Party. But on one issue, the political lines are being scrambled. It is Democrats in Congress, and not Republicans, who are standing with the movement in opposing liability protections for pesticide manufacturers.  

At the center of the fight is a controversial provision in the new Farm Bill that critics say would give pesticide manufacturers a legal liability shield.

We’re joined by two key Democrats who fought to stop it—Congresswoman Chellie Pingree of Maine and Congressman Jim McGovern of Massachusetts—one of whom called the proposal “an outrage.”

We’ll also hear from influential MAHA environmental advocate Kelly Ryerson.

Are Democrats willing to work with MAHA on some issues? Is MAHA willing to break with Republicans when their goals diverge? And what could this unusual coalition mean for the coming midterm elections and, most importantly, the health of Americans?

Hosts:

Brinda Adhikari

Tom Johnson

Maggie Bartlett

Dr. Mark Abdelmalek

Guests:

Rep. Jim McGovern (D-MA), is the Ranking Member of the House Rules Committee and also serves on the House Agriculture Committee.

Rep. Chellie Pingree (D-ME), serves on House AppropriationsCommittee and House Agriculture Committee.

Kelly Ryerson, MAHA activist, Glyphosate Girl, currently advocating to oppose legal protections for pesticide manufacturers. 

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Since ACIP was expected to take up the issue of vaccine injury, we explore the topic with Dr. Milhoan, alongside Dr. Craig Spencer of Brown University School of Public Health and Dr. Akiko Iwasaki of Yale School of Medicine.

Together, we hear the stories of three remarkable individuals who have experienced serious health setbacks following a COVID vaccine. We ask whether enough is being done to care for Americans like them, what challenges stand in the way of better understanding vaccine-related injuries, and how public health should respond to the very real experiences of those affected.

Hosts:

Brinda Adhikari

Tom Johnson

Maggie Bartlett

Dr. Mark Abdelmalek

Guests:

Dr. Kirk Milhoan, chairman, ACIP, pediatric cardiologist

John West, federal employee, Covid vaccine injured

Prof. Akiko Iwasaka, immunologist, Yale School of Medicine

Dr. Craig Spencer, ER doctor, public health professor, Brown School of Public Health

Jane Rioseco, consultant working on health and justice issues; Covid vaccine injured

(recorded voice of Daniel King), Covid vaccine injured; served as active duty military. 

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In today’s polarized climate, the virus has become a political flashpoint. Critics say the rise reflects eroding vaccine trust driven by the MAHA movement and Robert F. Kennedy Jr.. Others argue outbreaks like this occur every year, are usually mild, and are just a part of life. 

So we went straight to the front lines. We speak with doctors in Spartanburg, South Carolina, and a public health leader from West Texas who worked inside the communities most affected.

What are they actually seeing on the ground? How much of this surge is about politics and vaccine mistrust—and how much is rooted in religion, culture, or generations-old skepticism? What is the media getting right about the measles resurgence… and what might we be getting wrong?

As one of the most contagious viruses in the world makes a comeback in America, we ask: what comes next?

Hosts:

Brinda Adhikari

Tom Johnson

Maggie Bartlett

Dr. Mark Abdelmalek

Guests:

Dr. Robin LaCroix,  a pediatric infectious disease specialist, is the medical director emeritus of Prisma Health Children's Hospital in Greenville, S.C. 

Dr. Stuart Simko, a pediatrician with Prisma Health, practices in Greer, South Carolina, has seen several families with measles cases. 

Dr. Katherine Wells,  is Director of the Lubbock Public Health District, was the lead from Lubbock in responding to the West Texas measles outbreak. 

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But in the era of “Making America Healthy Again,” where the focus is on food, lifestyle, and root causes, how does a blockbuster pharmaceutical fit in? Are GLP-1s a genuine breakthrough or another example of America reaching for the next quick medication fix while deeper problems go unsolved?

We’re joined by Rachael Bedard, who recently wrote about GLP-1s for New York Magazine; Mariela Glandt, an expert on metabolic health; and Dhruv Khullar, who has covered these drugs for The New Yorker.

Hosts:

Brinda Adhikari

Tom Johnson

Maggie Bartlett

Dr. Mark Abdelmalek

Guests:

Dr. Rachael Bedard, geriatrician, palliative-care specialist, contributing writer for The New York Times (https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/ozempic-weight-loss-diet-drug-moral-panic.html)

Dr. Dhruv Khullar, physician, associate professor Weill Cornell Medical College; staff writer at The New Yorker (https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2026/02/16/can-ozempic-cure-addiction)

Dr. Mariela Glandt, endocrinologist, experience treating diabetes, founder of Owna Health, a virtual clinic that helps people — especially in underserved communities — manage and even reverse type 2 diabetes and obesity through a nutrition-focused plan. (https://owna.health/)

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Our guest today is Dr. Jay Bhattacharya, Director of the National Institutes of Health and acting director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

As he leads the world’s largest biomedical research enterprise and now the CDC--the first time one individual has led both institutions--we discuss his goals, governing philosophy, and vision for the future of American health science.

After emerging as a vocal critic of federal health leadership during the pandemic, how does he now approach his new roles? Nearly a year into his tenure, does he believe public trust is being restored?

We examine the past year, including cuts to research deemed connected to diversity, equity, and inclusion initiatives; the administration’s freeze on certain university funding tied to concerns about campus policies it considers discriminatory or antisemitic; his strategic approach to setting funding priorities; and his message to early-career researchers.

Hosts:

Brinda Adhikari

Tom Johnson

Dr. Mark Abdelmalek

Maggie Bartlett (producer role today)

Guest:

Dr. Jay Bhattacharya, Director of the National Institutes of Health; Acting Director of the Centers For Disease Control and Prevention

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President Trump’s executive order invoked the Defense Production Act to safeguard U.S. supplies of glyphosate, calling it critical not only to farmers, but also to the nation’s food security — and even national defense.

MAHA and its leader, Robert F. Kennedy Jr., have long argued that glyphosate is harming Americans’ health. Yet Kennedy has expressed support for the executive order.

That has left many in the movement furious. But is MAHA really splintering? Or are followers beginning to see this as the reality of governance — compromise and patience?

We’ve got a star-studded MAHA lineup today: Zen Honeycutt, Kelly Ryerson, and Jenna McCarthy — influential voices with plenty to say about where this movement goes next.

Hosts:

Brinda Adhikari

Tom Johnson

Maggie Bartlett (off)

Dr. Mark Abdelmalek (off)

Guests:

Zen Honeycutt, founder + executive director of Moms Across America movement; environmental activist

Kelly Ryerson, Glyphosate Girl on social media; environmental activist; regen farming advocate

Jenna McCarthy, author of Jenna's Side substack and co-author of The War on Ivermectin with Pierre Kory

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We had an episode planned all about what this decision means and whether or not it speaks to something larger about making vaccines in this moment….

So now we’re rolling with the news of that big reversal. And the truth is, we are kind of still asking the same question.

What the heck is going on? This is messy. On the one hand, doesn’t this FDA have a point about setting a higher standard for approving vaccines that they’re being asked to consider no matter how chaotic that might look? On the other hand, how are vaccine makers supposed to operate with all that chaos? And even with the reversal, is this ALREADY having a chilling effect on vaccine makers? 

Health journalist and physician Ben Mazer from the Atlantic joins us. 

Hosts:

Tom Johnson

Brinda Adhikari

Maggie Bartlett (off)

Dr. Mark Abdelmalek (off)

Guest:

Dr. Benjamin Mazer, surgical pathologist, writer for The Atlantic

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Black women face higher rates of diabetes and stroke, more aggressive cancers, and far riskier pregnancies. And yet, time and again, they say the medical system meant to care for them has too often failed them.

So what do they see as their most urgent needs? How do they view this administration — Kennedy, MAHA, the push against ultra-processed foods, and the backlash against DEI? And ultimately, do they believe these changes will improve their health, or once again leave them on the margins?

And riding shotgun with us today is a friend of the pod, MacKenzie Isaac, who is passionate about the health issues affecting the Black community.

Hosts:

Brinda Adhikari

Tom Johnson

Maggie Bartlett

Dr. Mark Abdelmalek

Guest host: Mackenzie Isaac, health educator, getting phD in bioethics from Oxford University

Guests:

Dr. Keisha Callins, OB/GYN, health educator

Renee Mitchell, founder Breaking the Cycle Drop Corp; Kennedy & MAHA supporter

Denise Octavia Smith, community health worker and inaugaral executive director

Alexandra Thompson, public health policy analyst

Tribeca Cannon, community health worker

Yesenia Muhammad, lawyer; Kennedy & supporter

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Monoclonal antibodies, the lab-created antibody treatment designed to disrupt a threat, boost your immune system, or even stave off an infection, are already a game-changer for millions of Americans struggling with disease or compromised immune-systems. Today we ask: where is this innovation heading? Can the high costs be reduced? Where does this approach fall in the treatment versus prevention tug of war that emerged during the pandemic? And given the mistrust towards other interventions, are monoclonals heading on a different trajectory?

We're joined by Marc Elia, the chairman of the board for Invivyd, and friend-of-the-pod, Dr. Michael Mina.

Hosts:

Brinda Adhikari

Tom Johnson

Maggie Bartlett

Dr. Mark Abdelmalek

Guests:

Marc Elia, Chairman of the Board of Invivyd, a biopharmaceutical company focused on developing monoclonal antibody platforms

Dr. Michael Mina, epidemiologist, immunologist, and physician. He’s been an associate professor at Harvard Medical School as well as the TH Chan School of Public Health, led America’s test-to-treat program during the pandemic. 

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You’ve likely seen the headlines: for the first time, the AAP has broken with the CDC, refusing to endorse the agency’s childhood vaccination recommendations. Instead, the AAP is urging pediatricians across the country to follow the vaccination schedule that was in place before the current HHS made its changes.

Today, we’re joined by Dr. Susan Kressly, who sits on the AAP’s board, until very recently served as the organization’s president, and is a practicing pediatrician. She led the group through this tumultuous past year. We ask her why the AAP sued HHS, why it did not participate in the most recent ACIP meeting, how she believes trust in public health can be repaired, and, most importantly, at this fraught moment, who parents should trust.

Hosts:

Brinda Adhikari

Tom Johnson

Maggie Bartlett

Dr. Mark Abdelmalek

Guest:

Dr. Susan Kressly, immediate past president of the American Academy of Pediatrics; board-certified pediatrician

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Hosts:

Brinda Adhikari

Tom Johnson

Maggie Bartlett

Dr. Mark Abdelmalek

Guests:

Dr. Bret Weinstein, evolutionary biologist, author, co host of DarkHorse podcast

Dr. Craig Spencer, ER physician, professor at Brown School of Public Health; writer

Dr. Rachael Bedard, palliative care and geriatics physician; worked as physician at Rikers Island; contributing writer The New York Times

Aaron Everitt, MAHA supporter, Kennedy campaign volunteer, video journalist and writer House In Habit and Besides the Revolution substacks

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A pediatric cardiologist, Air Force veteran, and physician who has dedicated his life to helping sick children around the globe, we’ll ask Dr. Milhoan about his philosophy on vaccines, how he approaches vaccine policy for American children, and whether ACIP can operate independently of political pressure. We’ll also explore the massive changes that HHS has just been made to America's childhood vaccine schedule. Was ACIP consulted? And, finally, what does he see as his committee’s role in rebuilding public trust?

Hosts:

Brinda Adhikari

Tom Johnson

Maggie Bartlett

Dr. Mark Abdelmalek 

Guest:

Dr. Kirk Milhoan: pediatric cardiologist; chair of the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices; co-founder For Hearts and Souls

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We ask Ryerson whether MAHA’s environmental wing is gaining real traction or hitting a wall. With the Midterms approaching, she has threatened to mount primary challenges against Republicans who side with industry on liability protections, raising questions about the future of the MAHA–MAGA alliance. And how much is the Trump administration and this EPA an ally in her fight, or are they operating under very different priorities?

Hosts:

Brinda Adhikari

Tom Johnson

Maggie Bartlett (off)

Dr. Mark Abdelmalek (off)

Guest:

Kelly Ryerson, educator, speaker, activist, "Glyphosate Girl" on Instagram; co-founder American Regeneration

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We’re joined by nutrition experts with a wide range of perspectives — plus a dose of MAHA — to unpack what these guidelines really mean for both our health and our confidence in the institutions behind them.

Hosts:

Brinda Adhikari

Tom Johnson

Maggie Bartlett

Dr. Mark Abdelmalek (off)

Guests:

DeeDee Tobias, a nutrition and obesity epidemiologist at the Brigham and Women’s Hospital and Harvard School of Public Health in Boston. 

Kevin C. Klatt is a phD and a registered dietitian. He is an Assistant Professor in the Department of Nutritional Sciences at the University of Toronto.

Ty Beal, is a nutrition scientist at GAIN–the Global Alliance for Improved Nutrition–and host of The Ty Beal Show. Dr. Beal was a scientific review author for the 2025–2030 Dietary Guidelines for Americans, part of the advisory team under the Trump administration

Elizabeth Frost, a grassroots organizer, she leads MAHA Ohio, worked for the Kennedy campaign,  co-founder of a political consulting company called Independent Force

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We also speak with public health professor and emergency physician Craig Spencer to explore how these critiques play out in the health space —on public health, cuts to scientific research, and the shrinking safety nets under the Trump administration. Finally, we discuss what, if anything, can be done to rebuild trust within communities that feel left behind, keying off of polling showing dramatic bipartisan support of the idea that good healthcare is a human right.

Hosts:

Brinda Adhikari

Tom Johnson

Maggie Bartlett (off)

Dr. Mark Abdelmalek (off)

Guests;

Vivek Chibber,  sociology professor at NYU who studies capitalism, class, and social theory. He is a contributor to Jacobin magazine and editor of Catalyst: A Journal of Theory and Strategy. Currently co-host of podcast Confronting Capitalism.

Dr. Craig Spencer, associate professor at Brown University School of Public Health, an ER doctor, has also worked for Doctors without Borders

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The administration says it looked to models abroad, particularly Denmark, where fewer vaccines are recommended. So we invited two Danish physicians who know their country’s vaccine policy and practice, along with a friend of the show, Dr. Michael Mina.

We ask: Is Denmark — a far smaller country with universal health care — really a good model for U.S. vaccine policy? Was this change grounded in gold-standard science? Or, as mainstream public health warns, does it increase risk for American children, even though all vaccines remain available and covered? And what, if anything, can the U.S. learn from countries that recommend fewer vaccines?

Hosts:

Brinda Adhikari

Tom Johnson

Maggie Bartlett

Dr. Mark Abdelmalek

Guests:

Dr. Eskild Petersen, an infectious disease specialist who worked 14 years at the Statens Serum Institut moving back into clinical ID in 2003. Since 2024 adjunct professor at PandimiX Center, Roskilde University, Denmark. Leading author of "Infectious Diseases, A Geographical Guide (Rutledge 2024) and editor in chief of the International Journal of Infectious Diseases.

Dr. Lone Graff Stensballe, a consultant pediatrician and expert in pediatric infectious diseases, with over 20 years of clinical experience at the pediatric department of Denmark’s National University Hospital. She is Professor of Pediatric Vaccinology and Infectious Disease Epidemiology at the University of Copenhagen. Since 2018, she has served as Chair of the Research Ethics Committees in Denmark. 

Dr. Michael Mina, an epidemiologist and immunologist and physician. Over the course of his career, he’s been an associate professor at Harvard Medical School as well as the TH Chan School of Public Health. In the height of the pandemic, he led America’s Test to Treat program, which connected home testing to treatment options. He’s been a scientific advisor for health start-ups and has served on high-profile boards. 

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Trust in doctors remains high—but it’s drifting downward. And we know from countless conversations that a negative experience with a doctor—over a diagnosis, treatment plan, or vaccine recommendation—can fuel mistrust in the entire medical system. Why do some patients leave these interactions feeling dismissed, and where do they turn next? What is it actually like to be a doctor in America right now? What financial pressures and systemic constraints are they operating within? How do they view their time with patients? And finally, how might this week’s changes reshape trust, care, and those exam-room conversations?

Hosts:

Brinda Adhikari

Tom Johnson

Maggie Bartlett

Dr. Mark Abdelmalek

Guests:

Nancy Fuller, MAHA supporter, former Kennedy campaign volunteer, from Ohio

Dr. Craig Spencer, ER physician Providence, RI; professor at Brown University School of Public Health

Len Arcuri, MAHA supporter, host of podcast Autism Parenting Secrets 

Dr. Keisha Callins, OB/GYN Jeffersonville, GA; professor at Mercer University School of Medicine

Daniel DeLuca, MAHA supporter, bar and restaurant owner, political consultant

Dr. Jamie Loehr, family doctor from Ithaca, NY. Former ACIP member

Dr. Ross England, infectious disease pediatrician, Children's Hospital of Philadelphia

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Are our schools making our kids sick? Not because of moldy buildings or bad cafeteria food, but because of what the modern school day has become.

From increased screens in the class and shrinking free time to teachers and administrators forced to focus more and more time on prep for standardized testing, schools today would be nearly unrecognizable to many parents. So, too, are the soaring rates of ADHD, anxiety, and depression among children.

In this episode, we’re joined by New York Times reporter Jia Lynn Yang to discuss her provocative piece, “America’s Children Are Unwell. Are Schools Part of the Problem?” We examine what impact a school day increasingly organized around screens, metrics, and test prep is having on children’s mental health and even childhood itself. At a moment when a great deal of attention is focused on how social media and phones are impacting teen mental health, Yang argues it’s time to scrutinize the place where kids spend most of their week: school.

Could this be a rare area where MAHA and public health actually agree?

Hosts:

Brinda Adhikari

Tom Johnson

Maggie Bartlett

Dr. Mark Abdelmalek

Guest:

Jia Lynn Yang, Senior Ideas Writer, The New York Times, author of the recent article, "America's Children Are Unwell. Are Schools Part of the Problem?"

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/11/24/magazine/youth-mental-health-crisis-schools.html

Thanks for listening! If you like us, please leave a review, rate us, and please subscribe! 

Got questions? Comments? We'd love to hear from you! Email us at questions@whyshoulditrustyou.net

Hosts:

Brinda Adhikari

Tom Johnson

Maggie Bartlett

Dr. Mark Abdelmalek

Guests:
Dr. Rachael Bedard is an internist, geriatrician, and palliative-care physician whose work focuses on health, human rights, and justice. She teaches, advocates, and writes, you’ll find her work in the New York Times, The New Yorker, and a popular substack called The Argument. 

Dr. Craig Spencer is an emergency medicine physician and an Associate Professor at Brown University School of Public Health. He focuses on frontline preparedness in the U.S. and around the world and has written for various news publications, including the Atlantic and the New York Times.

Dr. Michael Mina is an epidemiologist and immunologist and physician. Over the course of his career, he’s been an associate professor at Harvard Medical School as well as the TH Chan School of Public Health. In the height of the pandemic, he led America’s Test to Treat program, which connected home testing to treatment options. 

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How does their spirituality and faith shape the way they understand this moment of rapid change in health and science — from vaccines and global aid to mRNA technology, chronic illness, and scientific expertise itself?

And ultimately, could grace — and a shared sense of faith — be part of rebuilding trust?

Hosts;

Brinda Adhikari

Tom Johnson

Maggie Bartlett

Dr. Mark Abdelmalek

Guests:

1. Jacqueline Capriotti, a mother of two adults with cystic fibrosis, patient rights advocate. She is a health-policy strategist, works on initiatives within the MAHA movement, and was the Director of Chronic Illness Outreach and Healthcare Reform for Robert F. Kennedy Jr.’s presidential campaign. She is the co-founder of Doctors for America First.

2. Dr. Francis Collins, the former head of the National Institutes of Health during Operation Warp Speed, under three U.S. presidents; co-discovered the gene responsible for cystic fibrosis and led America’s effort to map the human genome; author of The Road to Wisdom: On Truth, Science, Faith, and Trust.

3. Jennifer Galardi, Senior Policy Analyst for Restoring American Wellness at The Heritage Foundation’s DeVos Center. Her writing has appeared in The Federalist, Epoch Times, Washington Examiner, and The Blaze, and she frequently appears in media to discuss cultural & policy shifts tied to the MAHA movement.

4. Dr. Marc Siegel, Clinical Professor of Medicine at NYU Langone Health, a practicing internist, and the Senior Medical Analyst for Fox News. He is the author of several books, including a brand new one titled: The Miracles Among Us: How God's Grace Plays a Role in Healing.

5. Elizabeth Frost, works with MAHA Ohio and is a co-founder of Independent Force Consulting. Prior to this, Elizabeth was the Ohio State director for Robert F. Kennedy Jr.'s presidential campaign.

6. Mackenzie Isaac, a Rhodes Scholar pursuing her doctorate in Population Health at Oxford University, where she got her MS in Modeling for Global Health. She earned a master’s degree in Health Education from Teachers College, Columbia Uni. Her work focuses on health equity and community health education in Black and Brown communities.

7. Rev. Wendy Silvers, a Minister, author, and Transformational Life Coach supporting mothers & families; created The Awakened Mother series, founded the Million Mamas Movement, and hosts The Awakened Mother Podcast and Million Mamas Rising radio show. She was invited to be the faith engagement lead for the Kennedy presidential campaign in 2024.

8. Emily Smith, an Assistant Professor at Duke University focusing on children’s global surgery, health-systems strengthening, and global health policy. She has conducted extensive research in Africa, and her work has been featured in TIME, NPR, The Washington Post, and Christianity Today.

Resource: https://www.pewresearch.org/religious-landscape-study/

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On this Thanksgiving, we each reflect on an episode that struck us. We are so grateful to you, our listener community. We all care about our health, our country and our families so much. We hope you all get to spend today surrounded by people you love. Thank you and a very Happy Thanksgiving to all. 

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It’s no secret that trust in mass media has plunged to an all-time low, with the old top-down model of journalism—where a handful of outlets controlled the flow of information—losing its authority. 

So we’ve invited three major voices who operate on the front lines of this shift: Astead Herndon, formerly of The New York Times and now at Vox; Emily Jashinsky, of Breaking Points and now part of Megyn Kelly’s media offerings; and Eliot Higgins, founder of the investigative collective Bellingcat, who warns that in this fractured landscape where we can’t even agree on basic facts, democracy isn’t just wobbling; it’s breaking down.

Today we ask: Are we in a crisis? If so, what will it take to secure the “information supply chains” that a functioning democracy depends on? And finally, if we can get things back on the rails, could this new, more democratized media ecosystem with individuals, not institutions, driving the flow of information, possibly lead us to a better, more trusted place?

We talk Iraq War, 2016 and 2024 Elections, Covid, Epstein, and so much more. 

Hosts

Brinda Adhikari

Tom Johnson

Maggie Bartlett (off this week)

Dr. Mark Abdelmalek (off this week)

Guests: 

Eliot Higgins, founder,  Bellingcat, an open source investigative journalism network

Emily Jashinsky, host, After Party; Megyn Kelly wrap-up show; co-host Breaking Points; writes for UnHerd

Astead Herndon, editorial director and host, Vox; former national political reporter The New York Times

Source:

Verification, Deliberation, Accountability: A New Framework for Tackling Epistemic Collapse and Renewing Democracy

https://demos.co.uk/research/verification-deliberation-accountability-a-new-framework-for-tackling-epistemic-collapse-and-renewing-democracy/

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We also reflect on our own experience: Why did we go? What did we learn about the MAHA movement and the extent of the mistrust in science and medicine today? And, ultimately, what have we learned about both the potential and limits of opening up a dialogue across our great health divide today? 

Hosts:

Brinda Adhikari

Tom Johnson

Maggie Bartlett

Dr. Mark Abdelmalek

Guests:

Audrey Trepiccione, midwife

Tina Siemens, founder, West Texas Living Heritage Museum, https://wtlhm.com/

Len Arcuri, host Autism Parenting Secrets podcast and a Strategic Parenting Advisor

AutismParentingSecrets.com

ElevateHowYouNavigate.com

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A longtime ally of Robert F. Kennedy Jr., Bigtree is a singular presence—an expert communicator, storyteller, and filmmaker with a reach of tens of millions. To fans and supporters, he’s a charismatic fighter taking on the chronic illness crisis and exposing corruption. His critics say he is a spreader of anti-vaccine misinformation.

We discuss politics, the future goals of MAHA, America's vaccine policies, bodily autonomy, and activism. It is a free-wheeling, occasionally raucous, but respectful conversation with one of the most important voices in MAHA today. 

Hosts:

Brinda Adhikari

Tom Johnson

Maggie Bartlett

Dr. Mark Abdelmalek

Guest host: Elizabeth Frost, MAHA Ohio; Independent Force Consulting

Guest:

Del Bigtree, founder and head of Informed Consent Action Network; former director of communications for Robert F Kennedy Jr's presidential campaign; founder, host High Wire

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We’re on the road this week, coming to you from Austin, Texas, at the Children’s Health Defense 2025 conference. Yes, that Children’s Health Defense: the influential organization founded and once led by Robert F. Kennedy Jr., now the country’s top health official. 

Critics say CHD is one of the most outspoken anti-vaccine groups in America and a major source of misinformation. Supporters say it is fighting to eliminate toxic exposures and protect kids in an era of rising chronic disease. Our central question: Is there any space—any at all—for common ground? Or are the chasms simply too deep?

In the first of a series of episodes from the conference, we sit down with two of its most influential voices: Dr. Bret Weinstein, evolutionary biologist, author of A Hunter-Gatherer’s Guide to the 21st Century, and host of the DarkHorse Podcast, and Dr. Pierre Kory, critical care and pulmonary specialist, and author of The War on Ivermectin.

We have an honest, no-holds-barred conversation about the breakdown in trust on all sides; what it means to live in a world of competing “facts” and data; whether standards of care help or hinder doctors; and, most importantly, whether respectful dialogue can help rebuild trust in one another. We bring them together with doctors from more traditional public health with more CHD/MAHA supporting doctors. Take a listen. 

 Guests:

Dr. Craig Spencer is an emergency medicine physician and public health professor at Brown University.  He worked on front lines during the COVID outbreak in New York City and now focuses his work on global health, humanitarianism, pandemic preparedness and the impact of COVID-19 on health systems.

Link: https://vivo.brown.edu/display/cspenc10

Dr. Pierre Kory

Dr. Pierre Kory is a physician trained in pulmonary and critical care medicine who gained national attention during the COVID-19 pandemic for his advocacy of off-label treatments, including ivermectin. He now runs The Leading Edge Clinic where he works as a Certified Tribal Practitioner where he focuses on long COVID and post- vaccine injury.

Link: https://drpierrekory.com/

Brett Weinstein, PhD

Brett Weinstein, PhD, is an evolutionary biologist, author, and co-host of the podcast, The DarkHorse, which aims to explore science, culture, and human nature with a goal of making scientific thinking more accessible for everyone.

Link: https://www.bretweinstein.net/about-bret-weinstein

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Today, we’re having an honest—and yes, uncomfortable—conversation about why some parents are questioning the vaccine schedule and the mandates. Should public health hold the line? Is there a way to respect individual choice without dismantling a system that’s protected us for generations? And can these mandates survive a movement that sees them as an affront to parental rights?

Joining us is Jennifer Reich, author of Calling the Shots: Why Parents Reject Vaccines, who explores why some parents are seeking an individualized approach to vaccination and what that means for the community.

Hosts:

Brinda Adhikari

Tom Johnson

Maggie Bartlett

Dr. Mark Abdelmalek

Guest:

Jennifer Reich; sociologist, Professor of Sociology University of Colorado-Denver; author Calling the Shots: Why Parents Reject Vaccines. 

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It’s Election Day in parts of the country, so we thought it was time to talk politics.

Dr. Craig Spencer, from Brown University’s School of Public Health, penned a Substack last week that stopped us cold. In it, he makes a bold case that public health needs to get more political—not partisan, but political in the sense of organizing, mobilizing, and demanding what people say they value: cleaner air, safer food, prevention that actually gets funded.

It’s a striking call at a moment of profound change — what some call a reimagining, others a dismantling — of public health itself. But if you look at the polling across Republicans, Democrats, and the MAHA “curious,” there’s surprising common ground right in public health’s wheelhouse.

It’s time, Spencer argues, for public health to step into the political arena to fight for change or watch the system unravel.

Hosts:

Brinda Adhikari

Tom Johnson

Maggie Bartlett

Dr. Mark Abdelmalek (off today)

Guest:

Dr. Craig Spencer, an emergency medicine physician; Associate Professor of the Practice of Health Services, Policy and Practice at Brown University School of Public Health.

Craig's Substack article referenced:
https://craigaspencer.substack.com/p/when-public-health-forgot-how-to

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In this episode, we meet two women who chose collaboration over conflict: Elizabeth Frost of MAHA, Ohio, and Dr. Nicole Deziel of the Yale School of Public Health. The pair met through our podcast and teamed up — Elizabeth working on the ground to connect with residents, and Nicole, along with partners including Ohio Valley Allies, securing an NIH grant to study East Palestine’s water as part of a larger research effort led by the University of Kentucky. Joining the conversation is Stuart Day, an area resident, member of Ohio Valley Allies, and community partner on the research team.

How are a grassroots MAHA advocate and a Yale public health scientist bridging the divides that define so much of our nation’s health debate today? And most importantly, what are researchers discovering that could help address residents’ concerns and help East Palestine move forward?

Hosts:

Brinda Adhikari

Tom Johnson

Dr. Maggie Bartlett

Dr. Mark Abdelmalek

Guests:

Elizabeth Frost: grassroots organizer for the MAHA movement in Ohio; the Ohio State director for Robert F. Kennedy Jr.'s presidential campaign;  is a co-founder of Independent Force Consulting

Dr. Nicole Deziel: Associate Professor in Environmental Health Sciences at the Yale School of Public Health & co-Director of the Yale Center of Perinatal, Pediatric, & Environmental Epidemiology.

Stuart Day: community partner with Ohio Valley Allies; co-creator and executive producer of Exposure Podcast, investigating environmental health issues in the region (Link: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/exposure/id1765728709)

John Klar: a former attorney who now operates a small farm in Vermont, is a writer for The MAHA Report, a popular newsletter, and a big supporter of Secretary Kennedy’s vision

Participants in the East Palestine research:
The Yale-based proposal was led by Dr. Nicole Deziel and Professor Michelle Bell from the Yale School of the Environment, and involved a broad team of researchers and community partners. The awarded NIH grant formally includes Nicole Deziel, Michelle Bell, Dr. James Saiers, a hydrogeologist at Yale, and Ohio Valley Allies (led by Jill Hunkler and Stuart Day).

At Yale, Drs. Deziel, Bell, and Saiers will assess water quality impacts using advanced hydrological modeling in partnership with Ohio Valley Allies and other community stakeholders such as MAHA Ohio.

The work is part of the newly formed East Palestine Investigation Consortium (EPIC), which will be led by the University of Kentucky (Dr. Erin Haynes) and also includes the University of Pittsburgh.

Resources:

https://research.uky.edu/news/uk-lead-federal-research-effort-on-east-palestine-health-impacts

https://www.epa.gov/east-palestine-oh-train-derailment

https://www.niehs.nih.gov/research/programs/east_palestine

https://www.ohiovalleyallies.org/campaigns 

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Today, we’re talking with an expert about how we got here and where we’re heading.

With trust in institutions, public health, and science under constant attack, how much of that is the algorithm’s fault? And how much is on us?

How are memes, ricocheting through our media ecosystems, changing the very nature of political communication?

And as user-facing AI begins to learn from these same algorithms, will it start tailoring its answers to match what it thinks we want to hear?

If that’s our future, how do we hold on to what little remains of our shared facts and shared reality?

Hosts:

Brinda Adhikari

Tom Johnson

Maggie Bartlett

Dr. Mark Abdelmalek

Guest:

Claire Wardle, co founder of the Information Futures Lab at Brown University as well as the non profit First Draft, meant to study and navigate what she calls “information disorder." Claire is currently an associate professor of communications at Cornell University.

Definition, from Oxford Language Dictionary

DVD: a type of compact disc able to store large amounts of data, especially high-resolution audiovisual material.

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On this special episode—the latest in our series of conversations that bring together people who rarely talk to each other—we hear from different perspectives on autism in a no-holds-barred discussion about this pivotal moment.

Joining us are two MAHA moms raising children with autism, Science editor-in-chief Holden Thorp—who was diagnosed with autism as an adult—and Dr. Rachael Bedard, a physician and science communicator. 

President Trump and Robert F. Kennedy Jr. have made finding a cause a top issue, putting autism—and the families living with it—squarely in the national spotlight. They’ve pointed to Tylenol use during pregnancy as a possible cause, sounding big alarm bells and triggering backlash.

Today, we move past the politics and the noise to ask some bigger questions: Is Kennedy disrupting the status quo—or distorting it? And is this the kind of change that autistic people and parents actually want?

Hosts:

Brinda Adhikari

Tom Johnson

Maggie Bartlett

Dr. Mark Abdelmalek

Guests:

Jennifer Phillips, MAHA mom, has a daughter living with autism, founder Make a Stand 4 Autism

Holden Thorp, editor in chief, Science; was diagnosed as being on the ASD spectrum as an adult

April Robinson, MAHA mom, has a son living with autism; works with Voice for Choice

Dr. Rachael Bedard, physician, journalist, works with caregivers managing serious illness 

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Now, for the first time, we have data showing how big this movement really is--and how much of America agrees with it. A brand-new national poll reveals what’s fueling MAHA’s rise: from food and fitness to vaccines, chemicals, and pesticides.

How has MAHA reshaped MAGA — and how has MAGA reshaped MAHA? Which MAHA issues resonate most with the rest of the country? And how much do vaccines really factor into the movement’s identity?

We’ll dig into the numbers with Erica Seifert of Navigator Research. Joining the convo is MAHA supporter Aaron Everitt, who is a friend of the show.

If you’ve been tempted to write MAHA off as a small, fringe movement…you're gonna want to sit down for this one.  

Hosts:

Brinda Adhikari

Tom Johnson

Maggie Bartlett

Dr. Mark Abdelmalek

Guests:

Aaron Everitt, MAHA supporter, former Kennedy campaign volunteer, video journalist and writer for Besides the Revolution and for prominent MAHA influencer Jessica Reed Kraus' House InHabit newsletter. 

Erica Seifert, polling expert and senior director at Navigator Research, a progressive polling firm

Links to the Navigator Poll:

https://navigatorresearch.org/maha-americans-and-health-and-wellness/
https://navigatorresearch.org/maha-the-policies-and-messages/

Global Strategy Group conducted a public opinion survey among a sample of 1,000 registered voters from September 4-September 8, 2025. 100 additional interviews were conducted among Hispanic voters. 100 additional interviews were conducted among African American voters. 75 additional interviews were conducted among Asian American and Pacific Islander voters. 100 additional interviews were conducted among independent voters. For more on the poll, please visit www.navigatorresearch.org

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So what now for traditional public health? On today’s episode, we talk with Katelyn Jetelina of Your Local Epidemiologist and Jessica Steier of Unbiased Science—two innovators navigating this new communication landscape. They’re working to cut through the noise and connect evidence to people’s lives, even as traditional institutions struggle to keep up.

We’ll ask how they’re adapting, what’s working, and whether the scientific establishment is giving communicators like them the support they need in this moment of upheaval.

Hosts:

Brinda Adhikari

Tom Johnson

Maggie Bartlett

Dr. Mark Abdelmalek

Guests:

Katelyn Jetelina, founder, author Your Local Epidemiologist; data scientist and epidemiologist; named Time 100 Most Influential People in Health

Jessica Steier, data scientist, doctor of public health, founder and CEO of UnBiased Science site and podcast; has written recently about autism studies for  the New York Times. 

Your Local Epidemiologist: https://yourlocalepidemiologist.substack.com/

UnBiased Science: https://www.unbiasedscience.com/

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In addition to that, what interests us is that he’s an independent, unorthodox voice—someone who doesn’t follow the political script his critics assume he should. That speaks to something we think about a lot here: too often, we take our cues from our “side” and stick to the script, seeking approval from our team, instead of engaging with compelling versions of an opposing view. That dynamic can be just as true among public health institutions as it is among supporters of MAHA.

So today, we ask Coleman: What has he learned from being that unorthodox voice—challenging the side that thought he was one of their own? And, ultimately, how does he think we can bridge divides and rebuild trust?

Hosts:

Brinda Adhikari

Tom Johnson

Maggie Bartlett

Dr. Mark Abdelmalek

Guest:

Coleman Hughes, host of Conversations with Coleman produced by the Free Press; author, The End of Race Politics: The Argument for a Colorblind America

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Hosts:

Brinda Adhikari

Tom Johnson

Maggie Bartlett

Dr. Mark Abdelmalek (off this week)

Guests: 

Rotimi Kukoyi: is a Truman Scholar, Jeopardy Champion, and the Senior Class President at UNC-Chapel Hill. He’s studying health policy and management on the premed track and wants to be a physician-policymaker at the state and national levels. 

Elizabeth Frost: Works at MAHA Ohio, ran grassroots for Sec. Kennedy's presidential campaign; runs Independent Force Consulting; has been on our pod several times!

Maesa Vicente: Maesa works with the The Touch Grass Collective as the Director of Policy Research and Strategy. She is now located in Pamplona, Spain, for a year where she is an English Teacher. 

MacKenzie Isaac: an Indianapolis-based health educator and final-year PhD candidate at the University of Oxford, where’s she’s studying the bioethical nuances of mental health treatment pathways for Black adolescents. She’s a 2022 Rhodes Scholar and the resident Health Equity Hygienist for global science communication collective, Those Nerdy Girls. 

Hunter Ryerson: a student at the University of Michigan and a journalist at Pirate Wires, a leading publication on technology, politics, and culture. He writes about the MAHA movement and the advancement of human health for Pirate Wires has written for the Michigan Daily 

Nathaniel Mamo: a Program Coordinator at NYU's Division of Medical Ethics working on issues in vaccine ethics.

Dorian Johnson: a public health communicator and board certified health and wellness coach who tackles big public health issues for little people; works to make public health topics digestible for families through storytelling. You can find him at @PHUncle

Adnan Alkhalili: Adnan Alkhalili is a young citizen scientist, student of metabolic health, and founder of the Touch Grass Together movement. A junior at Rutgers University, his work focuses on metabolic fatalism and aims to restore human connection in an era of hijacked biology, digital disconnection, and cultural division. 

Links:

• Those Nerdy Girls, creators of Dear Pandemic: https://thosenerdygirls.org/
• Touch Grass Collective - Get Outside. Get Human.: https://touchgrasstogether.com/
• Hunter Ryerson, Author at The Michigan Daily: https://www.michigandaily.com/author/hryerson/
• The PHuncle | Where Public Health Hits Different: https://thephuncle.com/
• Rotimi Kukoyi named Truman scholar | UNC-Chapel Hill: https://www.unc.edu/posts/2025/04/21/rotimi-kukoyi-named-truman-scholar/

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Hosts:

Brinda Adhikari

Tom Johnson

Maggie Bartlett

Dr. Mark Abdelmalek

Guest:

Brooke Blanke, mom to a 4 yo son with autism; respiratory therapist living in New Jersey

Dr. David Higgins, pediatrician, preventative medicine specialist; assistant professor of pediatrics at the Colorado School of Medicine

Resource:

CDC Vaccine Schedule: https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/hcp/imz-schedules/index.html

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But for some parents today, it’s the starting point of their vaccine hesitancy. They ask: “Why give a vaccine against a virus mostly spread through sex or IV drug use to a brand-new baby?” That question has fueled broader mistrust of the government’s vaccine message.

Supporters counter that childbirth itself is a major risk if the mother carries Hep B—and testing is far from foolproof. They point to the thousands of babies infected each year before the birth dose became universal, and cases plummeted.

What would delaying that first shot until later in childhood mean? Is it a way to rebuild public trust or a risky rollback that could put more kids in danger?

We explore these questions with two leading voices in vaccines, Dr. Paul Offit and Dr. Michael Mina, who don’t totally see eye to eye on the "birth dose".

Hosts:

Brinda Adhikari

Tom Johnson

Maggie Bartlett

Dr. Mark Abdelmalek

Guests:

Dr. Paul Offit, a leading pediatrician and infectious disease specialist, co-inventor of the rotavirus vaccine, was on the FDA’s Vaccine Advisory Committee, director of the Vaccine Education Ctr at the Children Hospital of Philadelphia

Dr. Michael Mina, an epidemiologist, immunologist, and physician. Former associate professor at Harvard Medical School & TH Chan School of Public Health, led America’s test-to-treat program during the pandemic; has served as a scientific advisor for health start-ups. 

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Modern agriculture feeds the nation and the world, but its tools raise tough questions about long-term impacts on our health, not to mention our land. You'll hear from farmers, journalists and advocates -- some aligned with MAHA and others not -- as we dig into how we grow and harvest our food, the pressures on the population and on the planet, what we know and don't know about the harms of pesticides, and their take on the new MAHA Commission report on the topic of pesticides. And we will ask: would some in MAHA even break with the GOP if Congress moves to shield pesticide makers from lawsuits?

Hosts:

Brinda Adhikari

Tom Johnson

Maggie Bartlett

Dr. Mark Abdelmalek (off this episode)

Guests:

Stephanie Nash, a fourth-generation dairy farmer who lives and works in Tennessee. On IG, @nofarmsnofood

John Klar, operates a small farm in Vermont, and is an author for the MAHA Report, a popular newsletter; he is a supporter of Sec. Kennedy and MAHA's vision. 

Michelle Miller, a popular presence on social media, @thefarmbabe, former corn and soybean farmer, she says she spends her time traveling the country unearthing the truth about modern farming and supporting farmers. 

Erin Martin, founded Fresh RX Oklahoma, which prescribes local, regeneratively grown food to reverse  food linked chronic disease in Oklahoma; co-lead Oklahoma Food is Medicine policy; frequent supporter of MAHA vision.

Michael Grunwald, who is a journalist focused on the climate, agriculture and author of a new book:  "We Are Eating the Earth: The Race to Fix Our Food System and Save Our Climate.” He is a contributor to the New York Times opinion page and a former staff writer for the Washington Post, Time and Politico Magazine.

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Hosts:

Brinda Adhikari

Tom Johnson

Guests:

Elizabeth Frost, MAHA Ohio, Kennedy organizer

Aaron Everitt, substacker, video journalist, Besides the Revolution, Kennedy volunteer

Dr. Craig Spencer, ER physician, Associate Professor at Brown School of Public Health, works also w Doctors Without Borders

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In this episode, we break down what’s in the plan, what’s missing, and how both the MAHA movement and the public health community are responding.

Joining us is Dr. Michael Forde, a public health leader working to reduce health inequity and inequality. At a moment when MAHA has moved chronic disease to the center of the national conversation, does the Black community feel included in their plan? And how do recent cuts to food programs, Medicaid, and diversity-focused health research square with the mission of making all communities healthier?

Finally, we ask, how can medicine, science, and public health build trust with a community that has profound reasons to mistrust them?

Hosts:

Brinda Adhikari

Tom Johnson

Dr. Maggie Bartlett

Dr. Mark Abdelmalek

Guest:

Dr. Michael Forde, a public health leader focused on public health equity. He is the director of health equity for a Fortune 500 health company, where he works within the state of Maryland to improve access to care, with a focus on Medicaid.

Follow him on IG, YouTube and TikTok, @MichaelHForde, where he breaks down the history, stories and facts about the Black American experience with our health system. 

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Are radical changes at the CDC and beyond moving us in the right direction for a healthier nation, or dangerously backwards?

Are we undoing the very system that has protected us for decades (from infectious disease)? Or upending a system that has made us sicker (chronic disease epidemic)?

Make America Healthy Again (MAHA) has succeeded in putting that question front and center. The movement encourages us to research for ourselves and make health decisions based on our unique family's needs. The days of lining up and getting your shot, no questions asked, are done. The days of trusting the experts appear to be winding down, too. 

That theme became clear in our conversation with the CDC leaders who recently resigned in protest. They tendered their resignations in defiance over RFK Jr.’s management of the agency, including the the firing of his handpicked director Dr Susan Monarez. 

It was a fascinating conversation, where we explored the role of the CDC, the Covid response, vaccine mandates, and the role of government in general. 

Hosts:

Brinda Adhikari

Tom Johnson

Maggie Bartlett

Dr. Mark Abdelmalek

Guests:

Dr. Demetre Daskalakis, former director of the National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases at CDC

Dr. Debra Houry , the CDC's former Chief Science and Medical Officer

Dr. Dan Jernigan, former Director of the National Center for Emerging and Zoonotic Infectious Diseases at CDC

Elizabeth Frost, MAHA Ohio, ran Kennedy grassroots in Ohio

Aaron Everitt, video essayist, substack Besides the Revolution, frequent contributor to House InHabit

Tracy Hollister, former Deputy Elector Director for Kennedy campaign, public policy researcher, MAHA advocate

Travis Tripodi, consultant in the health technology industry; libertarian; MAHA and Kennedy supporter

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Hosts:

Brinda Adhikari

Tom Johnson

Maggie Bartlett

Dr. Mark Abdelmalek (off this week)

Guest;

Anna Gilmore, professor of Public Health and Director of the Tobacco Control Research Group and the Co-Director of the Center for 21st Century Public Health at the University of Bath in England.

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He is Dr. Marc Siegel, the senior medical analyst for FOX News who recently argued that President Trump should be given the Nobel Peace Prize for leading Operation Warp Speed – the rapid development of mRNA vaccines that was given to millions during the covid pandemic. The Fox News medical correspondent is outspoken on mRNA technology as the Trump administration cancels promising mRNA research.

We’ll ask him what’s behind that provocative argument and what lessons he has for all of public health and science as they try to rebuild trust. 

Hosts:

Brinda Adhikari

Tom Johnson (off this week)

Maggie Bartlett

Dr. Mark Abdelmalek

Guest:

Dr. Marc Siegel, Senior Medical Analyst, Fox News; medical director for Doctor Radio on SiriusXM, and he is a primary care internist and professor of medicine at NYU Langone, in New York City. He has a book coming out in November called The Miracles Among Us which will be published by Harper Collins - Fox News Books.

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While making food healthier is central to MAHA’s mission, critics say its early wins, like persuading companies to remove certain food dyes, are a positive first step but won’t significantly improve public health. Kessler argues that RFK Jr.’s FDA already has both the scientific evidence and the legal authority right now to require food makers to prove that the ingredients in processed foods are safe.

It’s a plan that would force a confrontation with Big Food. Is Kessler calling Kennedy’s bluff or handing him a powerful tool? Could this strategy survive legal and political pushback? And if it did, what would our supermarket shelves look like then?

Hosts:

Brinda Adhikari

Tom Johnson

Maggie Bartlett

Dr. Mark Abdelmalek

Guest:

Dr. David Kessler, former commissioner of the Food and Drug Administration

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In this special episode of Why Should I Trust You?, we're taking on the all-important topic of food with members of the Make America Healthy Again movement, along with a panel of seasoned experts in food and nutrition science, including Kevin Hall, the former NIH nutrition scientist. We set out to talk about nutrition, the food industry, and politics--but the conversation quickly took off in directions we never expected. What does the group make of the administration's early "wins" on food dyes? Is there agreement that the carrot-not-regulation approach with the food industry is the way to go? Is MAHA's alliance with MAGA proving successful or limiting? And finally, if all sides worked together, what real solutions could be achieved to help Americans eat healthier? We also ask the groups to reflect on the violent attack on the CDC last week. 

Hosts:

Brinda Adhikari

Tom Johnson

Maggie Bartlett

Dr. Mark Abdelmalek

Guests: 

Elizabeth Frost: head of MAHA grassroots in Ohio, former OH state director for the Kennedy campaign, co-founder, Independent Force Consulting

Jacqueline Capriotti: MAHA Mom, Patient Advocate, Substack: Health Revolution USA, Chronic Disease Outreach for the Kennedy Campaign

Erin Martin: founder and director of FreshRX Oklahoma, and a clinical gerontologist; advocate for regenerative farming

John Klar: lawyer, farmer, writer The MAHA Report, advocate for regenerative farming

Aaron Everitt: Writer and video essayist at Substack: Besides The Revolution, frequently contributes to House InHabit a major MAHA influencer Jessica Reed Kraus' newsletter; Kennedy campaign volunteer

Kevin Hall:  who until this spring was at the NIH as a nutrition scientist, focusing a lot of his research on ultra processed foods and the causes of obesity, book coming out Food Intelligence, The Science of How Food Both Nourishes Us and Harms Us: https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/671334/food-intelligence-by-julia-belluz-and-kevin-hall-phd/

Tashara Leak: Registered Dietitian, Associate Professor in the Division of Nutritional Sciences, and Associate Dean in Human Ecology at Cornell University.

Susan Mayne: former director of Center for Food Safety and Applied Nutrition at the FDA; currently a professor at Yale School of Public Health

Dr. Mati Hlatshwayo Davis: an infectious disease specialist who until very recently was the head of the Dept of Health for the city of St Louis

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There may be no more recognizable figure in science today than Tyson: astronomer, author, public thinker, and the guy who’s done more than just about anyone to make science accessible. Today, our focus is less on the cosmos and more on us humans—and why we’re losing trust in the very science Tyson represents. 

The pair have released two timely films: Shot in the Arm, about vaccines, and Food Evolution, which explores genetically modified food. With the rise of MAHA, both topics couldn’t be more front and center.We talk about anecdotes versus data, empathy for diverging points of view, why humans struggle with probability, how imprecise communication—whether about a novel virus or a UFO sighting—breeds mistrust, and why, as a species, we need to figure out this trust thing, fast.

Hosts:

Brinda Adhikari

Tom Johnson

Maggie Bartlett

Dr. Mark Abdelmalek

Guests:

Neil Degrasse Tyson, astrophysicist, author, director of Hayden Planetarium

Scott Hamilton Kennedy, Oscar-nominated filmmaker, Shot in the Arm, Food Evolution

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HHS Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. is implementing dramatic cuts and a reorganization that he says will help focus the CDC on its core mission: fighting communicable diseases. As part of the overhaul, he’s also reshaping the agency’s role in setting vaccine policy for all Americans.

Supporters see this as a chance to streamline an agency weighed down by competing agendas and bureaucratic gridlock. Critics call it a five-alarm fire, warning that these changes threaten to dismantle the very public health infrastructure that has long protected Americans, especially the most vulnerable.

To help us understand what’s at stake, we’re joined by not one, but two former CDC directors: Dr. Tom Frieden and Dr. Mandy Cohen. What do they think the CDC got wrong during the pandemic? Where does their old agency need to change today? What of the current reforms makes sense or puts the health of Americans at risk? And most importantly, how can the CDC regain the trust it once commanded?

Hosts:

Brinda Adhikari

Tom Johnson

Maggie Bartlett

Dr. Mark Abdelmalek

Guests:

Dr. Mandy Cohen, former director of the CDC, former HHS secretary for the state of North Carolina; national advisor Manatt Health

Dr. Tom Frieden, former director of the CDC, author, 'The Formula for Better Health: How to Save Millions of Lives—Including Your Own'.  President and CEO of Resolve to Save Lives

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There are many directions our conversation could take (and many things to debate), but we focused on a question we hear frequently from our listeners: How is MAHA responding to all the recent developments at the Environmental Protection Agency and the efforts to roll back regulations? Does she see these changes as undermining MAHA’s mission to curb toxic exposure and improve Americans' health?

Along the way, we also ask her how she is processing the massive cuts to scientific research, and finally, what her message is to the MAHA community at this pivotal moment (Hint: Her eyes are squarely on the Midterms).

Hosts:
Brinda Adhikari

Tom Johnson

Maggie Bartlett

Dr. Mark Abdelmalek (off today)

Guest:
Zen Honeycutt, Founder & Executive Director, Moms Across America, which is a 501c4 (it was mistakenly identified as a 501c3 in the recording); an influential leader within Make America Healthy Again movement

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And given how conspiracy and cover-up play a recurring role in the story we’re exploring about the breakdown of trust in public health and medicine, this week felt as good as any to take on the topic.

So, what’s fueling today’s conspiracy theories? And -- hold that thought -- do we as a society even LIKE the phrase conspiracy theory any more? Where’s the line between healthy skepticism and something more destructive? And couldn’t we come up with a better term for the beliefs of people who say they feel dismissed by an establishment that labels their good-faith suspicions as conspiratorial?

To help us unpack all this, we’re joined by two Wall Street Journal reporters, Aruna Viswanatha and Joel Schectman. Back in June, they published a major investigative piece that dove into the godfather of all conspiracy theories: the claim that the U.S. military has been secretly studying alien spacecraft for decades.

What these reporters uncovered wasn’t what anyone expected and is our jumping-off point for a conversation about conspiracy theories, legitimate suspicion, and how investigative journalism might hold a key to not only getting at the truth, but also rebuilding trust.

Hosts:

Brinda Adhikari

Tom Johnson

Maggie Bartlett

Dr. Mark Abdelmalek

Guests:

Joel Schectman, Wall Street Journal Reporter
Aruna Viswanatha, Wall Street Journal Reporter

Authors, The Pentagon Disinformation That Fueled America's UFO Mythology

 https://tinyurl.com/mrxsxxrp

Resources:

Why People Believe Conspiracy Theories

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/misguided/202506/why-people-believe-conspiracy-theories

I Was Just About To When My Grant Was Cut
https://substack.com/home/post/p-169548794

MAHA Supporters Weigh in on Kevin Hall Episode

https://whyshoulditrustyou.substack.com/p/maha-supporters-weigh-in-on-kevin

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Instead, in a stunning move, Hall walked away. He says that his earliest interactions with the new team left him feeling censored and worried that he'd no longer be able to conduct unbiased science.  

So, what made one of America’s leading nutrition scientists see red flags as the MAHA-backed team got to work on the very issue that he's laser-focused on? 

And now, with a little time and distance, what does he think MAHA is getting right, getting wrong, and what its followers should be demanding from their leaders to truly make America eat healthier?

Hosts:

Brinda Adhikari

Tom Johnson

Maggie Bartlett

Dr. Mark Abdelmalek

Guest:

Kevin Hall, nutrition and metabolism scientist, formerly NIH; co-author Food Intelligence, coming out Sept 23, 2025. Available to pre-order here: https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/671334/food-intelligence-by-julia-belluz-and-kevin-hall-phd/

Let's keep the conversation going! Join us on Substack:

https://whyshoulditrustyou.substack.com/

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The result is an intense, surprising, sometimes funny, often confounding conversation about trust, Big Pharma, censorship, facts, “misinformation” (one voice says, stop using that word, another asks, well, then what do we call it?), bias, doctors, plumbers, and what truth even means anymore.

In this special episode, we dig into how we might be able to rebuild trust when so many of us only listen to our own carefully curated echo chamber.

Joining us was a group of MAHA supporters: Elizabeth Frost (MAHA Ohio) Mark Harris (MAHA Ohio), Nancy Fuller (MAHA Ohio), Jacqueline Capriotti (Health Revolution USA, director of outreach during Kennedy campaign), and Aaron Everitt (Besides the Revolution Substack, contributor to House InHabit).  

From the science communication side: Jessica Grose (opinion writer, New York Times), Kristen Panthagani (You Can Know Things), Dr. Mati Davis (former health director, St Louis), Dr. Craig Spencer (Brown Univ, Doctors without Borders, columnist), Chelsea Cipriano (former deputy PIO for Dept of Health in NYC)

We launched a substack!! Want more reflections from the WSITY team on our conversations with public health and MAHA? Guest essays from diverse perspectives? Videos where we discuss what we thought after a particular podcast episode? Sign up for free or premium paid content now!
https://substack.com/@whyshoulditrustyou

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Now, as the Trump administration and the Make America Healthy Again movement tackle America’s chronic health crisis with a radically different approach, what does he make of what he’s seeing, from the sweeping shift in priorities to widespread cuts in research funding? Does he see common ground with the MAHA movement’s goals? And, after a lifetime devoted to advancing science and health, what does he believe is the best way to rebuild trust and make America healthier?

Hosts:

Brinda Adhikari

Tom Johnson

Dr. Maggie Bartlett

Dr.Mark Abdelmalek

Guest:

Dr. Francis Collins, former director of the National Institutes of Health, author The Road to Wisdom

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Decades earlier, during the AIDS crisis, America’s public health system went through a trial by fire—learning hard lessons about how to communicate amid uncertainty, adapt to evolving science, and work with communities instead of against them.

Flash forward to COVID, and many Americans say they lost trust after experiencing what they saw as a top-down, dismissive approach from public health leaders. They say their questions and concerns about mitigation efforts and science were often met with rigid messaging, outright dismissal, and even censorship.

In today’s episode, we sit down with Dr. Reed Tuckson, a public health leader and former Commissioner of Public Health for Washington, D.C., during the height of the AIDS epidemic. He reflects on what that era taught him—and what it might still teach us about rebuilding trust today.

Hosts:

Brinda Adhikari

Tom Johnson

Maggie Bartlett

Dr. Mark Abdelmalek (off this week)

Guest:

Dr. Reed Tuckson, former Commissioner of Public Health in Washington DC; founder, Coalition for Trust in Health and Science

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Because Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. just fired every single member—replacing them with his own hand-picked team.

The committee in question is ACIP, a group of independent experts that guides how vaccines are used by hundreds of millions of Americans. Kennedy called the shake-up a “clean sweep,” claiming the previous committee's work was just a rubber stamp for Big Pharma and couldn’t be trusted.

Many in the medical and scientific community warn that this move could dismantle the nation’s vaccine system, erode public trust, and drive up costs.

What should we trust? And can we trust that the health of Americans is not getting caught in the crossfire? 

Today, we speak with two of the fired ACIP members to hear their direct response to the accusations. Then, Dr. Michael Mina—physician, scientist, and critic of the firings—joins us to unpack the broader context of these sweeping changes to America’s vaccine policy, what concerns are real, and what might be overblown.

Hosts:

Brinda Adhikari

Tom Johnson

Maggie Bartlett

Dr. Mark Abdelmalek

Guests:

Charlotte Moser, ex-ACIP, co-director, Vaccine Education Center

Dr Jamie Loehr, ex-ACIP, family physician

Dr Michael Mina; physician, immunologist; epidemiologist

Sources:
Michael Mina:

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/06/11/opinion/rfk-vaccine-policy-changes.html

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If a healthier America is your top priority, this is a red-alert moment. 

A nonpartisan Congressional estimate finds that the House-passed Medicaid changes would lead to millions of Americans losing health insurance. And just this week, the Republican-controlled Senate released its own draft, proposing even bigger changes that would result in deeper cuts.

With 71 million enrollees, Medicaid is the largest health insurance program in the country, a vital lifeline for both Red and Blue America. 

So what do these parents — who either depend on Medicaid now or expect to in the future — want Republican lawmakers and MAHA leaders to know about the realities of their daily lives? Is this what they voted for? And if not, what will they do about it?

Hosts:

Brinda Adhikari

Tom Johnson

Maggie Bartlett (off this week)

Dr. Mark Abdelmalek

Guests:

Jacqueline Capriotti, health coalition leader, substack author Health Revolution USA, mother of two kids with CF, MAHA advocate

James Cummings, digital engagement strategist, father to children with rare diseases

Sue Teitelbaum, mother of daughter with special needs

Nancy Fuller, MAHA Ohio grassroots, mother to son living with autism

Elizabeth Frost, MAHA grassroots leader Ohio

Dr. Megan Ranney, dean of Yale School of Public Health; ER physician

Dr. Craig Spencer, associate professor Brown University, ER physician, Doctors Without Borders

Dr. Reed Tuckson, founder of Coalition to Build Trust in Health and Science, physician. 

Resources:

https://5calls.org/

https://clairesplacefoundation.org/

https://www.dol.gov/agencies/odep/initiatives/saw-rtw/retain/phase-one

From Jacqueline Capriotti:

https://healthrevolutionusa.substack.com/p/when-trust-the-science-isnt-enough?r=5aqw38&utm_medium=ios&triedRedirect=true

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Today, we unpack a growing backlash that is driving down childhood vaccination rates, leading to cuts in mRNA research, and prompting different states to pass laws restricting its use. The mistrust was on display this week as RFK Jr. fired a key committee of experts that evaluates vaccines.

Our guest today is Dr. Drew Weissman, who, along with Dr Katalin Kariko, won the Nobel Prize for revolutionizing mRNA technology. We’ll dive into why their breakthrough has become a lightning rod—and whether the controversy could derail our best shot at curing tomorrow’s worst diseases.

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The discussion dives straight into one of the biggest drivers of mistrust in public health today: the COVID vaccine. Is it a life-saving marvel of modern science or a dangerous technology imposed on the public with little regard for liberty and safety? 

The groups share profound concerns about where we’ve been and where we’re headed when it comes to Americans' trust in public health, medicine, and science. Many of them differ fundamentally on the promise of the vaccine versus what it delivered, on how the healthcare system delivered and failed at the same time, and on how that trust lost can be earned back.

Yet the discussion is grounded in respect, empathy, and a shared goal of healthier communities, which might just be the key to pulling us out of our spiral of mistrust. 

Hosts:

Brinda Adhikari

Tom Johnson

Guests:

Joining the discussion from MAHA Georgia are Joey Fargar, Aaron Rossi, Christy Kennedy, Melinda Hicks, and from Ohio, Elizabeth Frost.

From public health, Paul Offit, Reed Tuckson, Anne Zink, and Ashwin Vasan. 

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But too often, the public hears little explanation, context, or nuance—rarely an acknowledgment of what isn’t known, in the rush to declare what is. And when every message feels equally urgent, it’s hard to know what really matters most.

Is presenting complicated data with simple, unflinching certainty the best way to help people make healthy choices? In a busy world, does simplifying at the expense of nuance lead to better health—or to eroded trust? And how is public health’s mandate—to speak to the whole community, including large percentages of people who lack regular access to health professionals—different from the personalized advice of a one-on-one doctor’s visit?

In 2025, with endless information and competing voices, how must public health communication evolve to meet the times?

Today on Why Should I Trust You?, we’re joined by Emily Oster—economist, professor, health-data expert, best-selling parenting author, and founder of ParentData.org. We talk health, data, and how to communicate honestly about risk and benefit. Could a new approach to health guidance be the key to rebuilding trust? 

Hosts:

Brinda Adhikari

Tom Johnson

Maggie Bartlett

Dr. Mark Abdelmalek

Guest:

Emily Oster, author, economist, founder ParentData (www.parentdata.org)

Books: Expecting Better; The Family Firm; Crib Sheet

Resources:

Emily Oster: There's a Better Way to Talk About Fluoride, Vaccines and Raw Milk

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/11/13/opinion/vaccines-fluoride-raw-milk.html

Emily Oster: Let's Declare a Pandemic Amnesty

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/10/covid-response-forgiveness/671879/

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Supporters see Kennedy as a force disrupting the status quo, channeling money and fresh energy into the search for answers. Critics see a stunt that prioritizes personal belief over established science and may ultimately be about eroding trust in vaccines.

Either way, it exposes just how deep our mistrust runs: vaccine skeptics dismissing science based on who delivers it, while some in the scientific establishment hesitate to revisit old debates because of who’s asking the questions.

Caught in the middle? Millions of families living with autism.

Today, a candid conversation with Nancy Fuller, a MAHA mom navigating her son’s diagnosis—and insights from Alison Singer, co-founder of the Autism Science Foundation and mother of daughter with autism, on where the research stands today and where we go from here.

Hosts:

Brinda Adhikari

Tom Johnson

Maggie Bartlett

Dr. Mark Abdelmalek

Guests:

Nancy Fuller, Make America Healthy Again (Ohio), mother of a son with autism

Alison Singer, Co-Founder/President, Autism Science Foundation, mother of a daughter with autism

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We ask: How much did the media know—and not report, including Tapper himself? Why did Biden, his top advisors, and Democratic leaders ignore the overwhelming concerns from the public about Biden’s frailty? And how did that denial deepen America’s distrust in its leaders, its institutions, and the press?

Yes, this is a story about health, aging, and what we expect from our leaders—but at its core, it’s about truth and trust. It is the kind of hard truth about aging and vulnerability that we -- and our systems --  often resist confronting 

Hosts:

Brinda Adhikari

Tom Johnson

Maggie Bartlett

Dr. Mark Abdelmalek

Guest:

Jake Tapper, CNN, co-author, Original Sin: President Biden’s Decline, Its Cover-Up, and His Disastrous Choice to Run Again.

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Our first conversation raised big questions. Some asked: Why even engage? At a time when devastating cuts are hitting public health and science, and America’s public health mission is being reshaped, many believe this moment calls for a fight — not a dialogue.

But we chose conversation. And today's conversation took us straight to the fault lines of some of the most divisive health issues in America today.

What we heard surprised us. Some positions weren’t as hardened as we expected. Some people, not as dug in.

There’s tension and disagreement — but also moments of agreement, and more than just a flicker of hope.

Hosts:

Brinda Adhikari

Tom Johnson

Maggie Bartlett

Dr. Mark Abdelmalek

Guests:

Elizabeth Frost, MAHA

Mark Harris, MAHA

Nancy Fuller, MAHA

Daniel DeLuca, MAHA

Megan Ranney, Public Health

Reed Tuckson, Public Health

Katelyn Jetelina, Public Health

Craig Spencer, Public Health

Paul Offit, Public Health

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Trust in our institutions is crumbling—from government and media to higher education, and yes, even medicine, science, and public health. Today’s guest, Pulitzer Prize finalist and author of the new book The Ghost Lab, Matt Hongoltz-Hetling, joins us to explore the growing belief in the paranormal—and what it reveals about our national psyche.

He argues that our fascination with ghosts, aliens, and the unexplained may be more than fringe curiosity. It could be a lens into where our deepening mistrust is leading us.

We talk about how the scientific method is being used to investigate hauntings, why medical associations might consider hiring a resident medium, and how something as strange-sounding as moisturizing with snail mucin might contain unexpected insight into building trust.

This is a conversation about the difference between healthy skepticism and corrosive doubt—and what rises to replace expertise when the experts no longer hold sway.

Hosts:

Brinda Adhikari

Tom Johnson

Maggie Bartlett

Dr. Mark Abdelmalek

Guest:

Matt Hongoltz-Hetling, investigative journalist and author of The Ghost Lab and If It Sounds Like a Quack.

Sources:

NYT Opinion by Matt Hongoltz-Hetling
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/29/opinion/medical-freedom-cancer-rfk.html

Every Doctor Faces This Dilemma

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/04/20/opinion/doctors-vaccines-patients.html

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The Trump administration says yes, launching a new government website asserting that Covid originated in a lab, not from animal-to-human transmission at the now-infamous Wuhan market. In recent days, Trump signed an executive order halting gain-of-function research, the type his administration claims caused the alleged leak. Tulsi Gabbard, now Director of National Intelligence, says she’s working on the definitive report. And Senator Rand Paul is once again calling for Dr. Fauci to be held accountable.

But talk to many scientists, and the response is clear: not so fast.

To help us unpack where the evidence stands—and how politics is reshaping the conversation—we're joined by three returning guests: Dr. Paul Offit, infectious disease expert at Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia; Dr. Maciej Boni, epidemiologist and professor at Temple University who was part of an early research effort into Covid’s origins; and David Wallace-Wells, New York Times science columnist and longtime chronicler of the pandemic’s many turns.

Hosts:

Brinda Adhikari

Tom Johnson

Dr. Maggie Bartlett

Guests:

Dr Paul Offit, infectious disease pediatrician, Children's Hospital of Philadelphia

Dr Maciek Boni, infectious disease epidemiologist, Temple University

David Wallace Wells, science writer, New York Times

Tulsi Gabbard on Gain on Function Research and Covid Origins
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMKTSYxto_Y

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Five MAHA members from their state chapter in Ohio. Five public health leaders. We had met and developed relationships with them over months of discussing their vision of health in this country. And a few weeks ago, we invited them to have a conversation with each other. They all agreed. 

On today's episode, we play the conversation in three sections. Following each section, we are joined by the Dean of Yale School of Public Health's Megan Ranney and MAHA Ohio's Grassroots Coordinator Elizabeth Frost who were on the call, to dig into their reactions.

This dialogue comes at a critical moment for public health and science, as the Trump administration slashes funding and jobs in a sharp reorientation of America’s health agencies and scientific research infrastructure. The divisions between these two camps run deep—over vaccines, the role of government, over health itself, and the polarizing figure of Robert F. Kennedy Jr., the nation’s current health secretary. Trust is eroding on all sides.

So we asked: what if we tried to bridge the gap? Do these sides actually have more in common than they think? Would they be willing to be open and honest with each other? Would they get stuck on the conversation over vaccines?

What you will hear is an important starting point -- with more conversations planned for the future. 

Hosts:

Brinda Adhikari

Tom Johnson

Maggie Bartlett

Dr. Mark Abdelmalek 

Guests:

MAHA Grassroots from Ohio:

Elizabeth Frost**

Nancy Fuller

Donald Wiggins

Daniel DeLuca

Mark Harris

Public health leaders: 

Megan Ranney**

Reed Tuckson

Katelyn Jetelina

Craig Spencer

Paul Offit

**Were on the group zoom conversation with MAHA and public health as well as podcast guests today

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Today, she joins us.

She tells us about where she finds yes, disagreement — but also, surprising common ground — with MAHA parents seeking answers about autism, vaccines, food, and chemicals. 

Can this Democrat from the "Live Free or Die" state help rebuild trust in public health, a field often tied to collective sacrifice? And with her party facing historic polling lows, how does she believe Democrats can craft a new health message, even as they fight to protect scientific research and Medicaid from deep cuts she sees as devastating?

Hosts:

Brinda Adhikari

Tom Johnson

Maggie Bartlett

Dr. Mark Abdelmalek

Guest:

Senator Maggie Hassan (D-NH)

Relevant committees she serves which relate to the subject of our podcast: Senate HELP Committee (Health, Education, Labor and Pensions); Senate Finance Committee; Senate Committee on Veterans' Affairs

Source:

Clip from January 2025 of Sen Maggie Hassan at RFK Jr.'s confirmation hearing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEYj8x8f1QY&t=1s

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Together, we explore the rise of the so-called “New Media”—a world where legacy outlets are giving way to right-leaning podcasters, YouTubers, and social media influencers. As trust in public health, science, and institutions craters, we ask: is this new media ecosystem fueling the breakdown, or finally reflecting a mistrust that’s been simmering for years?

And while critics on the Left call this new media machine unstoppable—blaming it for everything from Trump’s rise to the collapse of trust in science—we push back on that narrative. Could this shifting landscape actually offer unexpected opportunities for public health voices willing to step into the fray?

Hosts:

Brinda Adhikari

Tom Johnson

Maggie Bartlett (off this week)

Dr. Mark Abdelmalek (off this week)

Guest:

Emily Jashinsky, former The Federalist, The Hill, co-host of Counterpoints web and podcast show; and the DC correspondent of UnHerd - a news and current affairs site and host of Undercurrents TV. 

Sources:

Media Matters "Bubbles" Graphic on Dominance of Right-Leaning Media

https://x.com/GoAngelo/status/1900959918040989731

Joe Rogan Podcast, Dave Smith, Doug Murray, on Expertise

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ah6kirkSwTg

Emily Jashinsky: Legacy Media Indict Themselves When They Blame the "Right Wing Media Ecosystem"

https://thefederalist.com/2024/11/08/legacy-media-indict-themselves-when-they-blame-the-right-wing-media-ecosystem/

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Raised in a blue-collar Missouri community, Evan represents a much-needed voice at the table as America wrestles with how to get healthier. Does she feel MAHA represents the America of her upbringing? How did the party of Obamacare--which provided her insurance and thus the opportunity to go to college--lose her trust? And despite her vote for Trump, does she trust the Republican Party will hold the line on cuts to Medicaid, which millions of working-class Americans depend on?  Finally, does this former Democrat think either party has a health agenda that will rebuild trust with middle-class America and will make us healthier? 

Hosts:

Brinda Adhikari

Tom Johnson

Maggie Bartlett

Dr. Mark Abdelmalek

Guest:

Evan Barker: writer; former Democratic campaign operative; host of podcast Not Going Back

Source:

Evan Barker: I Raised $50 Million for the Democratic Party. This Week I Voted for Donald Trump. 

https://www.thefp.com/p/democrat-fundraiser-evan-barker-i-voted-trump

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This is in direct contrast to Secretary Kennedy's statement just yesterday that the nation's measles outbreak is under control. 

Plus why he felt he could not stay at the FDA anymore, his answers to parents' questions about vaccine safety, what he sees for public health right now and what he wants to do next. 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Today, in a special episode, we’re breaking from our usual Thursday release schedule to bring you an in-depth conversation with Dr. Peter Marks—America’s top vaccine official, who just stepped down from his role at the FDA.

His resignation made headlines, sending shock waves through the public health world, especially after he said RFK Jr.’s newly installed team at the agency left him little choice. For years, Dr. Marks led the government group responsible for approving vaccines and in that role was a driving force behind Operation Warp Speed. That effort both fast-tracked COVID-19 vaccines at a moment when the nation was desperate for solutions and has helped fuel America's rise in mistrust.
Now, with that public trust in science, health officials, and institutions at a low point, we sit down with Dr. Marks to ask the hard questions: Was the COVID vaccine rushed? What does he make of RFK Jr.’s bold claim that he’ll uncover the cause of autism by September? And does he think the current measles outbreak is bigger and more dangerous than it appears?
Finally, we talk with this newly liberated public health servant about what it might take for America to turn the corner—and start trusting again.

Hosts:

Brinda Adhikari

Tom Johnson

Maggie Bartlett

Dr. Mark Abdelmalek

Guest:

Dr. Peter Marks, former director of the Center for Biologics Evaluation and Research within the Food and Drug Administration. He oversaw the FDA vaccine program. 

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Hosts:

Brinda Adhikari

Tom Johnson

Maggie Bartlett

Dr. Mark Abdelmalek

Guest:

Wendell Potter, former health insurance executive at Cigna; president of the Center for Health and Democracy

Sources:

I Was a Health Insurance Executive. What I Saw Made Me Quit

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/12/18/opinion/health-insurance-united-ceo-shooting.html

In US, Inability to Pay For Care, Medicine Hits New High
https://news.gallup.com/poll/658148/inability-pay-care-medicine-hits-new-high.aspx

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For too long, both parties ran the show without challenging the status quo. Meanwhile, trust in public health on behalf of a public desperate for action was plummeting. How much did that lack of change pave the way for the radical shift we’re seeing now?

To help make sense of it all, we speak with Jennifer Pahlka—author, technologist, and government reformer. A pioneer in bringing tech-driven innovation to government long before DOGE was a glint in Elon Musk’s eye, Pahlka has a lot to say about government efficiency, streamlining bureaucracy, and where these cuts might be leading us.

Hosts:

Brinda Adhikari

Tom Johnson

Maggie Bartlett

Dr. Mark Abdelmalek

Guest:

Jennifer Pahlka, author Recoding America: Why Government Is Failing in the Digital Age, and How We Can Do Better; former U.S. deputy chief technology officer under President Barack Obama where she helped set up the U.S. Digital Service.

Sources:

Fortune on Pahlka and DOGE cuts

https://fortune.com/2025/03/05/doge-co-founder-digital-service-jennifer-pahlka-code-for-america

Atlantic 

https://www.theatlantic.com/podcasts/archive/2025/01/elon-musk-doge-government-efficiency/681366/

Pahlka op-ed NY Times

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/02/07/opinion/democrats-elon-musk-doge.html

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To explore all this, we bring on Anders Tegnell, architect of Sweden’s controversial no-lockdown strategy. Sweden bucked the trend and stayed open—was it a success or a deadly gamble? How do Swedes view the balance between personal responsibility and public health? And while America is a very different place, should we follow Sweden’s example next time? With trust in the system where it is today, do we even have a choice?

(And yeah we ask him a couple of questions about ABBA. Because, Sweden.)

Anders Tegnell on Sweden’s response

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2023-11-state-epidemiologist-sweden-covid-strategy.html

New York Times' David Wallace-Wells on Sweden’s pandemic response

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/30/opinion/sweden-pandemic-coronavirus.html

Study on Sweden’s Covid deaths 

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10399217/#:~:text=In%20conclusion%2C%20Sweden%20experienced%20relatively,to%20their%20version%20of%20reality.

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Sources:

Vitamin A and Measles

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7076287/

Vitamin A deficiency

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0022316622012238?via%3Dihub

RFK Jr on Foxnews:
https://www.foxnews.com/video/6369595673112

RFK Jr with Sean Hannity

https://www.foxnews.com/video/6369888081112

Interview of parents of child in TX measles outbreak death
https://live.childrenshealthdefense.org/chd-tv/shows/good-morning-chd/breaking-news-parents-of-child-in-texas-measles-outbreak-death/

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Hosts:

Brinda Adhikari

Tom Johnson

Maggie Bartlett

Dr. Mark Abdelmalek

Guest:

Jonathan Marks, Director of Bioethics Program at Penn State University, lawyer, author The Perils of Partnership: Industry Influence, Institutional Integrity, and Public Health

Sources:

2019 pharma ranked least well regarded industry