On Theme: Design Systems in Depth Fri, 13 Mar 2026 19:54:06 -0400 http://designsystemsontheme.com en-us © 2026 On Theme: Design Systems in Depth yes Support this Podcast 3a17ad09-3ecc-5d08-8994-379a779f3a53 Elyse Holladay episodic false Exploring how successful design systems get built, maintained, and deliver impact. Design systems is having a major reinvention moment, and I want to share what's working from design system practitioners out there forging the way. Expect aha moments, actionable insights, thoughtful discussions, and spicy takes from accomplished design system practitioners. Hosted by Elyse Holladay.

]]> Buzzsprout (https://www.buzzsprout.com) design systems, frontend engineering, web development, css, design, product design Elyse Holladay https://storage.buzzsprout.com/d5gj6wruowzieacunzw8quhiyjkt?.jpg On Theme: Design Systems in Depth http://designsystemsontheme.com Five 2026 Predictions for Design Systems with Noelle Lansford Five 2026 Predictions for Design Systems with Noelle Lansford Noelle joins me again for some 2026 predictions trend encapsulations, and we try to unpack the absolute madness of the first two months of 2026. 

1️⃣  Designing with code is in, making pictures of UIs is out. 

2️⃣ The new critical deliverables for systems teams are design guidelines, agent rules, tokens, and semantic APIs. 

3️⃣ We're gonna see a real focus on brand expression, but also on one-offs. 

4️⃣ Design system teams, you do organizational behavior change. 

5️⃣ The next chapter of the design system narrative is around quality rather than efficiency. 

Plus: the rise of the design engineer and a return to the early 2000s ways of working? I hope so!, nothingburger brands, and design systems gatekeeping.

Season 2 of On Theme is officially here! 🎉 💖 If you like what you're hearing from On Theme, please hit subscribe on your favorite podcast platform. On Theme is  sponsor free and listener supported, so please support the show with a monthly donation.

📲 Send me a text!

Support the show

]]> Noelle joins me again for some 2026 predictions trend encapsulations, and we try to unpack the absolute madness of the first two months of 2026. 

1️⃣  Designing with code is in, making pictures of UIs is out. 

2️⃣ The new critical deliverables for systems teams are design guidelines, agent rules, tokens, and semantic APIs. 

3️⃣ We're gonna see a real focus on brand expression, but also on one-offs. 

4️⃣ Design system teams, you do organizational behavior change. 

5️⃣ The next chapter of the design system narrative is around quality rather than efficiency. 

Plus: the rise of the design engineer and a return to the early 2000s ways of working? I hope so!, nothingburger brands, and design systems gatekeeping.

Season 2 of On Theme is officially here! 🎉 💖 If you like what you're hearing from On Theme, please hit subscribe on your favorite podcast platform. On Theme is  sponsor free and listener supported, so please support the show with a monthly donation.

📲 Send me a text!

Support the show

]]> Elyse Holladay Buzzsprout-18771736 Mon, 02 Mar 2026 06:00:00 -0800 3285 2 2 full false 2025 Predictions Recap with Noelle Lansford 2025 Predictions Recap with Noelle Lansford My very first minisode of the entire podcast was some 2025 predictions, and a lot has changed. (Honestly, what was I thinking trying to make predictions in the era of AI? fml) Noelle Lansford joined me for Season Two's official first episode to  recap my 2025 predictions with me and look back on the trends and themes we saw in design-systems-land last year.

Stay tuned for part two where we dive in to our 2026 predictions!

📲 Send me a text!

Support the show

]]> My very first minisode of the entire podcast was some 2025 predictions, and a lot has changed. (Honestly, what was I thinking trying to make predictions in the era of AI? fml) Noelle Lansford joined me for Season Two's official first episode to  recap my 2025 predictions with me and look back on the trends and themes we saw in design-systems-land last year.

Stay tuned for part two where we dive in to our 2026 predictions!

📲 Send me a text!

Support the show

]]> Elyse Holladay Buzzsprout-18646998 Mon, 09 Feb 2026 02:00:00 -0800 2481 2 1 full false On Theme S1 Minisode 4: Converge conference 2025 Recap On Theme S1 Minisode 4: Converge conference 2025 Recap I'm back from Zeroheight's Converge conference in Bristol, UK, with my recap and thoughts. In this minisode, find out my three major themes from the event: reducing complexity, shifting towards code to design, and the narratives "framing our future". 


Resources & Links:

📲 Send me a text!

Support the show

]]> I'm back from Zeroheight's Converge conference in Bristol, UK, with my recap and thoughts. In this minisode, find out my three major themes from the event: reducing complexity, shifting towards code to design, and the narratives "framing our future". 


Resources & Links:

📲 Send me a text!

Support the show

]]> Elyse Holladay Buzzsprout-18166706 Mon, 10 Nov 2025 13:00:00 -0800 1805 1 bonus false On Theme S1 Minisode 3: This summer's AI vibe shift and conference news! On Theme S1 Minisode 3: This summer's AI vibe shift and conference news! Surprise minisode! In this quick episode, hear a few ways AI tools are useful for design systems now, my new favorite design-eng handoff tool, and three can't-miss industry events this fall.

📲 Send me a text!

Support the show

]]> Surprise minisode! In this quick episode, hear a few ways AI tools are useful for design systems now, my new favorite design-eng handoff tool, and three can't-miss industry events this fall.

📲 Send me a text!

Support the show

]]> Elyse Holladay Buzzsprout-17864420 Sun, 21 Sep 2025 13:00:00 -0700 1171 1 bonus false Creativity and design system leadership in the age of AI, with Natalya Shelburne — #17 Creativity and design system leadership in the age of AI, with Natalya Shelburne — #17 Chat, this is the last episode of season one! Thank you for listening and supporting the show! There's no better way to wrap up, IMO, than an optimistic and curious exploration of what it means to be a creative human in an increasingly technological world.

So to wrap up season one, Natalya Shelburne joins me to explore how design leaders can cultivate creativity in an era of rapid technological and organizational change. Drawing from her degree and research in creativity, Natalya shares insights on fostering innovation, overcoming fear-driven management styles, and why embracing artistic thinking is essential for teams navigating the age of AI. She explains the importance of creating safe environments to unlock creative potential and why outdated corporate structures simply can't compete. Plus, flow state, goats, expansive thinking, and hobbies. 


Links & References


💖 On Theme is a brand new podcast, so if you like what you're hearing, please hit subscribe and sign up at designsystemsontheme.com!


🎨🎟️ Into Design Systems is May 25-28
Get your ticket at intodesignsystems.com/ontheme

Into Design Systems is back with their annual virtual conference, May 28-30, 2025. Get your ticket now for three days of practical, hands on sessions showing the what, why, and how of design systems. This year, the conference is focused on developer handoff, accessibility, multi brand theming, and governance. You'll get hands on knowledge you can put to use at work immediately, files and resources to take away, and hear from very well known industry speakers. 

📲 Send me a text!

Support the show

]]> Chat, this is the last episode of season one! Thank you for listening and supporting the show! There's no better way to wrap up, IMO, than an optimistic and curious exploration of what it means to be a creative human in an increasingly technological world.

So to wrap up season one, Natalya Shelburne joins me to explore how design leaders can cultivate creativity in an era of rapid technological and organizational change. Drawing from her degree and research in creativity, Natalya shares insights on fostering innovation, overcoming fear-driven management styles, and why embracing artistic thinking is essential for teams navigating the age of AI. She explains the importance of creating safe environments to unlock creative potential and why outdated corporate structures simply can't compete. Plus, flow state, goats, expansive thinking, and hobbies. 


Links & References


💖 On Theme is a brand new podcast, so if you like what you're hearing, please hit subscribe and sign up at designsystemsontheme.com!


🎨🎟️ Into Design Systems is May 25-28
Get your ticket at intodesignsystems.com/ontheme

Into Design Systems is back with their annual virtual conference, May 28-30, 2025. Get your ticket now for three days of practical, hands on sessions showing the what, why, and how of design systems. This year, the conference is focused on developer handoff, accessibility, multi brand theming, and governance. You'll get hands on knowledge you can put to use at work immediately, files and resources to take away, and hear from very well known industry speakers. 

📲 Send me a text!

Support the show

]]> Elyse Holladay Buzzsprout-17097094 Mon, 12 May 2025 09:00:00 -0700 3514 1 17 full false But "design systems as infrastructure" is boring, with Sam Anderson — #16 But "design systems as infrastructure" is boring, with Sam Anderson — #16 Y’all, I’ll be honest. Some days, I’m scared and nervous and uncomfortable with AI’s emergence, and implications, too. But I am also curiously optimistic, and more importantly — I don’t want to use any platform I have to spread even more fear and discontent and drama. So today you’re getting a dose of two things that I love: infrastructure and optimism.

Drawing from his experience leading design systems at three very large orgs, Sam Anderson from Intuit shares how framing design systems as infrastructure can help them be recognized as essential to business success. He shares his vision for the importance of patterns as the next frontier of systems work, particularly in a rapidly changing tech landscape accelerated by AI, and we talk about what leadership conversations look like. Plus, Sam drops a spicy take that he believes AI won’t destroy design system jobs but make us even more valuable.

Links & References


💖 On Theme is a brand new podcast, so if you like what you're hearing, please hit subscribe and sign up at designsystemsontheme.com!


🎨🎟️ Into Design Systems is May 25-28
Get your ticket at intodesignsystems.com/ontheme

Into Design Systems is back with their annual virtual conference, May 28-30, 2025. Get your ticket now for three days of practical, hands on sessions showing the what, why, and how of design systems. This year, the conference is focused on developer handoff, accessibility, multi brand theming, and governance. You'll get hands on knowledge you can put to use at work immediately, files and resources to take away, and hear from very well known industry speakers. 

📲 Send me a text!

Support the show

]]> Y’all, I’ll be honest. Some days, I’m scared and nervous and uncomfortable with AI’s emergence, and implications, too. But I am also curiously optimistic, and more importantly — I don’t want to use any platform I have to spread even more fear and discontent and drama. So today you’re getting a dose of two things that I love: infrastructure and optimism.

Drawing from his experience leading design systems at three very large orgs, Sam Anderson from Intuit shares how framing design systems as infrastructure can help them be recognized as essential to business success. He shares his vision for the importance of patterns as the next frontier of systems work, particularly in a rapidly changing tech landscape accelerated by AI, and we talk about what leadership conversations look like. Plus, Sam drops a spicy take that he believes AI won’t destroy design system jobs but make us even more valuable.

Links & References


💖 On Theme is a brand new podcast, so if you like what you're hearing, please hit subscribe and sign up at designsystemsontheme.com!


🎨🎟️ Into Design Systems is May 25-28
Get your ticket at intodesignsystems.com/ontheme

Into Design Systems is back with their annual virtual conference, May 28-30, 2025. Get your ticket now for three days of practical, hands on sessions showing the what, why, and how of design systems. This year, the conference is focused on developer handoff, accessibility, multi brand theming, and governance. You'll get hands on knowledge you can put to use at work immediately, files and resources to take away, and hear from very well known industry speakers. 

📲 Send me a text!

Support the show

]]> Elyse Holladay Buzzsprout-17049273 Mon, 05 May 2025 09:00:00 -0700 2858 1 16 full false Naming is hard, but have you tried working with people? with Guy Segal — #15 Naming is hard, but have you tried working with people? with Guy Segal — #15 Guy Segal joins Elyse to unpack the messy, complicated world of… people. Guy shares practical strategies from his experience at Thomson Reuters, including the powerful "pre-mortem" exercise he used to rebuild trust and alignment for the design system. They get vulnerable and unpack why (as cliche as it sounds!) genuine listening, storytelling, learning to give and receive feedback, and actively engaging with product teams, is so much more impactful than relying solely on processes or artifacts. Plus, Guy shares why he hated it at first when product teams started using the name of the design system.

Links & References


💖 On Theme is a brand new podcast, so if you like what you're hearing, please hit subscribe and sign up at designsystemsontheme.com!


🎨🎟️ Into Design Systems is May 25-28
Get your ticket at intodesignsystems.com/ontheme

Into Design Systems is back with their annual virtual conference, May 28-30, 2025. Get your ticket now for three days of practical, hands on sessions showing the what, why, and how of design systems. This year, the conference is focused on developer handoff, accessibility, multi brand theming, and governance. You'll get hands on knowledge you can put to use at work immediately, files and resources to take away, and hear from very well known industry speakers. 

📲 Send me a text!

Support the show

]]> Guy Segal joins Elyse to unpack the messy, complicated world of… people. Guy shares practical strategies from his experience at Thomson Reuters, including the powerful "pre-mortem" exercise he used to rebuild trust and alignment for the design system. They get vulnerable and unpack why (as cliche as it sounds!) genuine listening, storytelling, learning to give and receive feedback, and actively engaging with product teams, is so much more impactful than relying solely on processes or artifacts. Plus, Guy shares why he hated it at first when product teams started using the name of the design system.

Links & References


💖 On Theme is a brand new podcast, so if you like what you're hearing, please hit subscribe and sign up at designsystemsontheme.com!


🎨🎟️ Into Design Systems is May 25-28
Get your ticket at intodesignsystems.com/ontheme

Into Design Systems is back with their annual virtual conference, May 28-30, 2025. Get your ticket now for three days of practical, hands on sessions showing the what, why, and how of design systems. This year, the conference is focused on developer handoff, accessibility, multi brand theming, and governance. You'll get hands on knowledge you can put to use at work immediately, files and resources to take away, and hear from very well known industry speakers. 

📲 Send me a text!

Support the show

]]> Elyse Holladay Buzzsprout-17048873 Mon, 28 Apr 2025 09:00:00 -0700 3932 1 15 full false The Four Quadrants of Design System Impact, with Ben Callahan — #14 The Four Quadrants of Design System Impact, with Ben Callahan — #14 Ben Callahan joins Elyse for a fun conversation on creating impact with design systems. Ben shares insights from his consulting experience, discussing common pitfalls like organizations expecting a design system without adequately supporting their teams. They break down the "Four Quadrants of Design System Impact" framework, which breaks down tactical versus strategic work, helping teams avoid pitfalls like endless component creation. Plus, hear Ben’s predictions for the future of design systems

Links & References


💖 On Theme is a brand new podcast, so if you like what you're hearing, please hit subscribe and sign up at designsystemsontheme.com!


🎨🎟️ Into Design Systems is May 25-28
Get your ticket at intodesignsystems.com/ontheme

Into Design Systems is back with their annual virtual conference, May 28-30, 2025. Get your ticket now for three days of practical, hands on sessions showing the what, why, and how of design systems. This year, the conference is focused on developer handoff, accessibility, multi brand theming, and governance. You'll get hands on knowledge you can put to use at work immediately, files and resources to take away, and hear from very well known industry speakers. 

📲 Send me a text!

Support the show

]]> Ben Callahan joins Elyse for a fun conversation on creating impact with design systems. Ben shares insights from his consulting experience, discussing common pitfalls like organizations expecting a design system without adequately supporting their teams. They break down the "Four Quadrants of Design System Impact" framework, which breaks down tactical versus strategic work, helping teams avoid pitfalls like endless component creation. Plus, hear Ben’s predictions for the future of design systems

Links & References


💖 On Theme is a brand new podcast, so if you like what you're hearing, please hit subscribe and sign up at designsystemsontheme.com!


🎨🎟️ Into Design Systems is May 25-28
Get your ticket at intodesignsystems.com/ontheme

Into Design Systems is back with their annual virtual conference, May 28-30, 2025. Get your ticket now for three days of practical, hands on sessions showing the what, why, and how of design systems. This year, the conference is focused on developer handoff, accessibility, multi brand theming, and governance. You'll get hands on knowledge you can put to use at work immediately, files and resources to take away, and hear from very well known industry speakers. 

📲 Send me a text!

Support the show

]]> Elyse Holladay Buzzsprout-17006361 Mon, 21 Apr 2025 09:00:00 -0700 4390 1 14 full false Shipping new ways of working to a classic organization with the One UPS system, with Marcela Rodriguez Joos — #13 Shipping new ways of working to a classic organization with the One UPS system, with Marcela Rodriguez Joos — #13 Marcela Rodriguez Joos shares the story behind the One UPS project, a massive effort to modernize and unify UPS’ brand and digital experiences through a new design system. Marcela reveals how a “why does everything look different?” moment from their CEO was the catalyst for this ambitious effort, how they’re collaborating across a massive org, and successfully reducing development timelines from years down to months. Plus, Marcela’s team dishes out their design system spice takes!


Links & References


💖 On Theme is a brand new podcast, so if you like what you're hearing, please hit subscribe and sign up at designsystemsontheme.com!


🎨🎟️ Into Design Systems is May 25-28
Get your ticket at intodesignsystems.com/ontheme

Into Design Systems is back with their annual virtual conference, May 28-30, 2025. Get your ticket now for three days of practical, hands on sessions showing the what, why, and how of design systems. This year, the conference is focused on developer handoff, accessibility, multi brand theming, and governance. You'll get hands on knowledge you can put to use at work immediately, files and resources to take away, and hear from very well known industry speakers. 

📲 Send me a text!

Support the show

]]> Marcela Rodriguez Joos shares the story behind the One UPS project, a massive effort to modernize and unify UPS’ brand and digital experiences through a new design system. Marcela reveals how a “why does everything look different?” moment from their CEO was the catalyst for this ambitious effort, how they’re collaborating across a massive org, and successfully reducing development timelines from years down to months. Plus, Marcela’s team dishes out their design system spice takes!


Links & References


💖 On Theme is a brand new podcast, so if you like what you're hearing, please hit subscribe and sign up at designsystemsontheme.com!


🎨🎟️ Into Design Systems is May 25-28
Get your ticket at intodesignsystems.com/ontheme

Into Design Systems is back with their annual virtual conference, May 28-30, 2025. Get your ticket now for three days of practical, hands on sessions showing the what, why, and how of design systems. This year, the conference is focused on developer handoff, accessibility, multi brand theming, and governance. You'll get hands on knowledge you can put to use at work immediately, files and resources to take away, and hear from very well known industry speakers. 

📲 Send me a text!

Support the show

]]> Elyse Holladay Buzzsprout-16972048 Mon, 14 Apr 2025 09:00:00 -0700 3245 1 13 full false The flaws of the “accessibility is built in to the design system” argument, with Daniel Henderson-Ede — #12 The flaws of the “accessibility is built in to the design system” argument, with Daniel Henderson-Ede — #12 Ever had a team come to you after an a11y audit like, "but I used the design system, why does my product have accessibility defects??" Daniel Henderson-Ede, one of design systems' leading accessibility voices, joins me on the show today to unpack a spicy myth in design systems: that accessibility can be fully "built-in." Daniel walks us through the common pitfalls of overselling accessibility, how teams often mistakenly assume the system handles everything, and we explore the challenges and missteps of managing accessibility.


📋 Plus, check out Daniel's Systems-Accessibility Ownership Matrix resource that you can use on your Design System team!


Links & References


💖 On Theme is a brand new podcast, so if you like what you're hearing, please hit subscribe and sign up at designsystemsontheme.com!


🎨🎟️ Into Design Systems is May 25-28
Get your ticket at intodesignsystems.com/ontheme

Into Design Systems is back with their annual virtual conference, May 28-30, 2025. Get your ticket now for three days of practical, hands on sessions showing the what, why, and how of design systems. This year, the conference is focused on developer handoff, accessibility, multi brand theming, and governance. You'll get hands on knowledge you can put to use at work immediately, files and resources to take away, and hear from very well known industry speakers. 

📲 Send me a text!

Support the show

]]> Ever had a team come to you after an a11y audit like, "but I used the design system, why does my product have accessibility defects??" Daniel Henderson-Ede, one of design systems' leading accessibility voices, joins me on the show today to unpack a spicy myth in design systems: that accessibility can be fully "built-in." Daniel walks us through the common pitfalls of overselling accessibility, how teams often mistakenly assume the system handles everything, and we explore the challenges and missteps of managing accessibility.


📋 Plus, check out Daniel's Systems-Accessibility Ownership Matrix resource that you can use on your Design System team!


Links & References


💖 On Theme is a brand new podcast, so if you like what you're hearing, please hit subscribe and sign up at designsystemsontheme.com!


🎨🎟️ Into Design Systems is May 25-28
Get your ticket at intodesignsystems.com/ontheme

Into Design Systems is back with their annual virtual conference, May 28-30, 2025. Get your ticket now for three days of practical, hands on sessions showing the what, why, and how of design systems. This year, the conference is focused on developer handoff, accessibility, multi brand theming, and governance. You'll get hands on knowledge you can put to use at work immediately, files and resources to take away, and hear from very well known industry speakers. 

📲 Send me a text!

Support the show

]]> Elyse Holladay Buzzsprout-16922645 Mon, 07 Apr 2025 09:00:00 -0700 2320 1 12 full false Help, I'm starting a new design system job! with Amy Ogg — #11 Help, I'm starting a new design system job! with Amy Ogg — #11 This one’s a little bit different than some of the projects and topics that we've had on the podcast so far — we’re talking about starting a new role. I think it's one of the hardest things that we do sometimes as design system practitioners, because the design system is really about changing your organization, changing the way we build UI, and so there's a lot of weight on your shoulders when you come into a new role.

Starting a new job as a design system practitioner can feel exciting and terrifying all at once—but Amy Ogg has some insights to help us navigate the emotional rollercoaster. Amy and Elyse chat about how to spend your first 30-60-90 days, building genuine trust, and why making big changes as a new hire can actually backfire. They commiserate over balancing the overwhelming backlog as a small team, and Amy shares why she thinks cross-training outside your expertise is a must. Plus, Amy shares how her experience as a barista shaped her approach to UX design ☕️


💖 On Theme is a brand new podcast, so if you like what you're hearing, please hit subscribe and sign up at designsystemsontheme.com!


Links & References


🎨🎟️ Into Design Systems is May 25-28
Get your ticket at intodesignsystems.com/ontheme

Into Design Systems is back with their annual virtual conference, May 28-30, 2025. Get your ticket now for three days of practical, hands on sessions showing the what, why, and how of design systems. This year, the conference is focused on developer handoff, accessibility, multi brand theming, and governance. You'll get hands on knowledge you can put to use at work immediately, files and resources to take away, and hear from very well known industry speakers. 

📲 Send me a text!

Support the show

]]> This one’s a little bit different than some of the projects and topics that we've had on the podcast so far — we’re talking about starting a new role. I think it's one of the hardest things that we do sometimes as design system practitioners, because the design system is really about changing your organization, changing the way we build UI, and so there's a lot of weight on your shoulders when you come into a new role.

Starting a new job as a design system practitioner can feel exciting and terrifying all at once—but Amy Ogg has some insights to help us navigate the emotional rollercoaster. Amy and Elyse chat about how to spend your first 30-60-90 days, building genuine trust, and why making big changes as a new hire can actually backfire. They commiserate over balancing the overwhelming backlog as a small team, and Amy shares why she thinks cross-training outside your expertise is a must. Plus, Amy shares how her experience as a barista shaped her approach to UX design ☕️


💖 On Theme is a brand new podcast, so if you like what you're hearing, please hit subscribe and sign up at designsystemsontheme.com!


Links & References


🎨🎟️ Into Design Systems is May 25-28
Get your ticket at intodesignsystems.com/ontheme

Into Design Systems is back with their annual virtual conference, May 28-30, 2025. Get your ticket now for three days of practical, hands on sessions showing the what, why, and how of design systems. This year, the conference is focused on developer handoff, accessibility, multi brand theming, and governance. You'll get hands on knowledge you can put to use at work immediately, files and resources to take away, and hear from very well known industry speakers. 

📲 Send me a text!

Support the show

]]> Elyse Holladay Buzzsprout-16886779 Mon, 31 Mar 2025 09:00:00 -0700 3555 1 11 full false Hand off the API: a design & build workflow for components, with Jeff Pelletier — #10 Hand off the API: a design & build workflow for components, with Jeff Pelletier — #10 Design systems aren’t just about components—they’re about how teams work together to build better UI. Jeff Pelletier, a frontend engineer with a design background, joins the show to talk about feature workflows for design systems, how design and engineering can work in parallel, and why documentation should be part of the process, not an afterthought. Jeff and Elyse dive into how to create API-first component specs, the challenge of design-code parity, and the ~drama~ of having a formal process.

💖 On Theme is a brand new podcast, so if you like what you're hearing, please hit subscribe and sign up at designsystemsontheme.com!

Links & References


🎨🎟️ Into Design Systems is May 25-28
Get your ticket at intodesignsystems.com/ontheme

Into Design Systems is back with their annual virtual conference, May 28-30, 2025. Get your ticket now for three days of practical, hands on sessions showing the what, why, and how of design systems. This year, the conference is focused on developer handoff, accessibility, multi brand theming, and governance. You'll get hands on knowledge you can put to use at work immediately, files and resources to take away, and hear from very well known industry speakers. 

📲 Send me a text!

Support the show

]]> Design systems aren’t just about components—they’re about how teams work together to build better UI. Jeff Pelletier, a frontend engineer with a design background, joins the show to talk about feature workflows for design systems, how design and engineering can work in parallel, and why documentation should be part of the process, not an afterthought. Jeff and Elyse dive into how to create API-first component specs, the challenge of design-code parity, and the ~drama~ of having a formal process.

💖 On Theme is a brand new podcast, so if you like what you're hearing, please hit subscribe and sign up at designsystemsontheme.com!

Links & References


🎨🎟️ Into Design Systems is May 25-28
Get your ticket at intodesignsystems.com/ontheme

Into Design Systems is back with their annual virtual conference, May 28-30, 2025. Get your ticket now for three days of practical, hands on sessions showing the what, why, and how of design systems. This year, the conference is focused on developer handoff, accessibility, multi brand theming, and governance. You'll get hands on knowledge you can put to use at work immediately, files and resources to take away, and hear from very well known industry speakers. 

📲 Send me a text!

Support the show

]]> Elyse Holladay Buzzsprout-16841208 Mon, 24 Mar 2025 09:00:00 -0700 3037 1 10 full false Bye Purple! A redesign powered by local & global design system layers at Spotify, with Smith Schwartz & Tyce Clee — #09 Bye Purple! A redesign powered by local & global design system layers at Spotify, with Smith Schwartz & Tyce Clee — #09 Spotify’s ad platform just got a serious glow-up, and Smith and Tyce are here to tell us how they pulled it off. Smith Schwartz, Product Design Manager, and Tyce Clee, Engineering Manager, walk us through the redesign of Spotify Ads Manager—why it was needed, how they used design systems to make it happen, and what it took to get buy-in. Smith and Tyce tell us about the shift from a playful UI to a more data-dense, enterprise-friendly experience, how their local design system worked alongside Spotify’s global Encore system, and why storytelling (not just metrics) is key to selling design system work internally. Plus, how a simple name like "Bye Purple" helped them drive alignment and make the redesign a company-wide priority.

💖 On Theme is a brand new podcast, so if you like what you're hearing, please hit subscribe and sign up at designsystemsontheme.com!

Links & References



🎨🎟️ Into Design Systems is May 25-28
Get your ticket at intodesignsystems.com/ontheme

Into Design Systems is back with their annual virtual conference, May 28-30, 2025. Get your ticket now for three days of practical, hands on sessions showing the what, why, and how of design systems. This year, the conference is focused on developer handoff, accessibility, multi brand theming, and governance. You'll get hands on knowledge you can put to use at work immediately, files and resources to take away, and hear from very well known industry speakers. 

📲 Send me a text!

Support the show

]]> Spotify’s ad platform just got a serious glow-up, and Smith and Tyce are here to tell us how they pulled it off. Smith Schwartz, Product Design Manager, and Tyce Clee, Engineering Manager, walk us through the redesign of Spotify Ads Manager—why it was needed, how they used design systems to make it happen, and what it took to get buy-in. Smith and Tyce tell us about the shift from a playful UI to a more data-dense, enterprise-friendly experience, how their local design system worked alongside Spotify’s global Encore system, and why storytelling (not just metrics) is key to selling design system work internally. Plus, how a simple name like "Bye Purple" helped them drive alignment and make the redesign a company-wide priority.

💖 On Theme is a brand new podcast, so if you like what you're hearing, please hit subscribe and sign up at designsystemsontheme.com!

Links & References



🎨🎟️ Into Design Systems is May 25-28
Get your ticket at intodesignsystems.com/ontheme

Into Design Systems is back with their annual virtual conference, May 28-30, 2025. Get your ticket now for three days of practical, hands on sessions showing the what, why, and how of design systems. This year, the conference is focused on developer handoff, accessibility, multi brand theming, and governance. You'll get hands on knowledge you can put to use at work immediately, files and resources to take away, and hear from very well known industry speakers. 

📲 Send me a text!

Support the show

]]> Elyse Holladay Buzzsprout-16794149 Mon, 17 Mar 2025 08:00:00 -0700 3373 1 9 full false What happens when your system can’t support your flagship product?, with Adriana Morales — #08 What happens when your system can’t support your flagship product?, with Adriana Morales — #08 Adriana Morales from HEB (aka the best grocery store) poses a tricky question for the show: what happens when your design system can't support all your products, or your flagship product? Hashtag enterprise organization problems. Adriana and I explore some of the scenarios where this might occur, the "system of systems" concept, product team autonomy, and pace layers. Don't miss Adriana's explanation of her "ways of working" workshops and thoughts on creating empathy across your org.

💖 On Theme is a brand new podcast, so if you like what you're hearing, please hit subscribe and sign up at designsystemsontheme.com!

Links & References


🎨🎟️ Into Design Systems is May 25-28
Get your ticket at intodesignsystems.com/ontheme

Into Design Systems is back with their annual virtual conference, May 28-30, 2025. Get your ticket now for three days of practical, hands on sessions showing the what, why, and how of design systems. This year, the conference is focused on developer handoff, accessibility, multi brand theming, and governance. You'll get hands on knowledge you can put to use at work immediately, files and resources to take away, and hear from very well known industry speakers. 

📲 Send me a text!

Support the show

]]> Adriana Morales from HEB (aka the best grocery store) poses a tricky question for the show: what happens when your design system can't support all your products, or your flagship product? Hashtag enterprise organization problems. Adriana and I explore some of the scenarios where this might occur, the "system of systems" concept, product team autonomy, and pace layers. Don't miss Adriana's explanation of her "ways of working" workshops and thoughts on creating empathy across your org.

💖 On Theme is a brand new podcast, so if you like what you're hearing, please hit subscribe and sign up at designsystemsontheme.com!

Links & References


🎨🎟️ Into Design Systems is May 25-28
Get your ticket at intodesignsystems.com/ontheme

Into Design Systems is back with their annual virtual conference, May 28-30, 2025. Get your ticket now for three days of practical, hands on sessions showing the what, why, and how of design systems. This year, the conference is focused on developer handoff, accessibility, multi brand theming, and governance. You'll get hands on knowledge you can put to use at work immediately, files and resources to take away, and hear from very well known industry speakers. 

📲 Send me a text!

Support the show

]]> Elyse Holladay Buzzsprout-16626654 Mon, 10 Mar 2025 08:00:00 -0700 3432 1 8 full false I’m a design system consumer now: lessons from the other side, with Beau Ulrey — #07 I’m a design system consumer now: lessons from the other side, with Beau Ulrey — #07 I invited Beau to the podcast because of his great Medium articles on design systems... but he's not working on a system team right now! Beau shares his experiences on both sides of the—fence? aisle?—and the lessons he's taken away. We chat about the tradeoffs of building for speed vs stability, bringing new designs for AI products into the system, onboarding, cross-team empathy, and why we're always complaining about the other side. Plus, find out what Beau wanted to be when he grew up.

💖 On Theme is a brand new podcast, so if you like what you're hearing, please hit subscribe and sign up at designsystemsontheme.com!

Links & References


🎨🎟️ Into Design Systems is May 25-28
Get your ticket at intodesignsystems.com/ontheme

Into Design Systems is back with their annual virtual conference, May 28-30, 2025. Get your ticket now for three days of practical, hands on sessions showing the what, why, and how of design systems. This year, the conference is focused on developer handoff, accessibility, multi brand theming, and governance. You'll get hands on knowledge you can put to use at work immediately, files and resources to take away, and hear from very well known industry speakers. 


📲 Send me a text!

Support the show

]]> I invited Beau to the podcast because of his great Medium articles on design systems... but he's not working on a system team right now! Beau shares his experiences on both sides of the—fence? aisle?—and the lessons he's taken away. We chat about the tradeoffs of building for speed vs stability, bringing new designs for AI products into the system, onboarding, cross-team empathy, and why we're always complaining about the other side. Plus, find out what Beau wanted to be when he grew up.

💖 On Theme is a brand new podcast, so if you like what you're hearing, please hit subscribe and sign up at designsystemsontheme.com!

Links & References


🎨🎟️ Into Design Systems is May 25-28
Get your ticket at intodesignsystems.com/ontheme

Into Design Systems is back with their annual virtual conference, May 28-30, 2025. Get your ticket now for three days of practical, hands on sessions showing the what, why, and how of design systems. This year, the conference is focused on developer handoff, accessibility, multi brand theming, and governance. You'll get hands on knowledge you can put to use at work immediately, files and resources to take away, and hear from very well known industry speakers. 


📲 Send me a text!

Support the show

]]> Elyse Holladay Buzzsprout-16626529 Mon, 03 Mar 2025 08:00:00 -0800 2638 1 7 full false Building a multi-brand joint venture design system for BetMGM, with ToniAnn Drenckhahn — #06 Building a multi-brand joint venture design system for BetMGM, with ToniAnn Drenckhahn — #06 ToniAnn joins the show to share her experience building a multi-brand design system for BetMGM and Entain's joint venture. This episode is our first project deep dive and it's full of legacy codebases, lessons learned, and big wins. ToniAnn talks to us about dealing with ambiguity, owning your decisions, and keeping leadership on board as you ship a system that changes the way your business works—and your partners businesses, too.

💖 On Theme is a brand new podcast, so if you like what you're hearing, please hit subscribe and sign up at designsystemsontheme.com!

Links & References


🎨🎟️ Into Design Systems is May 25-28
Get your ticket at intodesignsystems.com/ontheme

Into Design Systems is back with their annual virtual conference, May 28-30, 2025. Get your ticket now for three days of practical, hands on sessions showing the what, why, and how of design systems. This year, the conference is focused on developer handoff, accessibility, multi brand theming, and governance. You'll get hands on knowledge you can put to use at work immediately, files and resources to take away, and hear from very well known industry speakers. 


📲 Send me a text!

Support the show

]]> ToniAnn joins the show to share her experience building a multi-brand design system for BetMGM and Entain's joint venture. This episode is our first project deep dive and it's full of legacy codebases, lessons learned, and big wins. ToniAnn talks to us about dealing with ambiguity, owning your decisions, and keeping leadership on board as you ship a system that changes the way your business works—and your partners businesses, too.

💖 On Theme is a brand new podcast, so if you like what you're hearing, please hit subscribe and sign up at designsystemsontheme.com!

Links & References


🎨🎟️ Into Design Systems is May 25-28
Get your ticket at intodesignsystems.com/ontheme

Into Design Systems is back with their annual virtual conference, May 28-30, 2025. Get your ticket now for three days of practical, hands on sessions showing the what, why, and how of design systems. This year, the conference is focused on developer handoff, accessibility, multi brand theming, and governance. You'll get hands on knowledge you can put to use at work immediately, files and resources to take away, and hear from very well known industry speakers. 


📲 Send me a text!

Support the show

]]> Elyse Holladay Buzzsprout-16584801 Mon, 24 Feb 2025 08:00:00 -0800 3759 1 6 full false Stop waiting for permission! and other ways to show design systems value, with Brian Alfaro — #05 Stop waiting for permission! and other ways to show design systems value, with Brian Alfaro — #05 If the way we're building design systems has a fatal flaw, it's "waiting for enough investment to get it right." In this episode, Brian teaches us to not wait for permission and how your product teams' success is your success. Brian reminds us how important it is to remember that we're all on the same team, building the same product—and why internal politics and storytelling matters way more than components. Plus, why design systems are like toilets (not a Dad joke, I promise) and why Brian and I think "measuring the system is hard" is a beautiful thing.

💖 On Theme is a brand new podcast, so if you like what you're hearing, please hit subscribe and sign up at designsystemsontheme.com!

Links & References


🎨🎟️ Into Design Systems is May 25-28
Get your ticket at intodesignsystems.com/ontheme

Into Design Systems is back with their annual virtual conference, May 28-30, 2025. Get your ticket now for three days of practical, hands on sessions showing the what, why, and how of design systems. This year, the conference is focused on developer handoff, accessibility, multi brand theming, and governance. You'll get hands on knowledge you can put to use at work immediately, files and resources to take away, and hear from very well known industry speakers. 

📲 Send me a text!

Support the show

]]> If the way we're building design systems has a fatal flaw, it's "waiting for enough investment to get it right." In this episode, Brian teaches us to not wait for permission and how your product teams' success is your success. Brian reminds us how important it is to remember that we're all on the same team, building the same product—and why internal politics and storytelling matters way more than components. Plus, why design systems are like toilets (not a Dad joke, I promise) and why Brian and I think "measuring the system is hard" is a beautiful thing.

💖 On Theme is a brand new podcast, so if you like what you're hearing, please hit subscribe and sign up at designsystemsontheme.com!

Links & References


🎨🎟️ Into Design Systems is May 25-28
Get your ticket at intodesignsystems.com/ontheme

Into Design Systems is back with their annual virtual conference, May 28-30, 2025. Get your ticket now for three days of practical, hands on sessions showing the what, why, and how of design systems. This year, the conference is focused on developer handoff, accessibility, multi brand theming, and governance. You'll get hands on knowledge you can put to use at work immediately, files and resources to take away, and hear from very well known industry speakers. 

📲 Send me a text!

Support the show

]]> Elyse Holladay Buzzsprout-16572921 Mon, 17 Feb 2025 08:00:00 -0800 2578 1 5 full false All the things you shouldn’t do for design system success, with Dan Mall — #04 All the things you shouldn’t do for design system success, with Dan Mall — #04 I'm thrilled to have the one and only Dan Mall on the show, and in this episode, we get deep into all the things you maybe don't want to do if you want your design system to be successful. Dan shares his experiences with failed design systems, one very failed attempt at pitching a system to leadership,  why he thinks design systems should be specific not generic and maybe... not include foundations? Plus, we talk about useless documentation, what's next for systems, and THE spiciest take on tokens.

(Honestly, there are so many 🌶️ Spicy Takes™️ in this episode, we might have to rename the show to Design System Spicy Takes!)

💖 On Theme is a brand new podcast, so if you like what you're hearing, please hit subscribe and sign up at designsystemsontheme.com!

Links & References


🎨🎟️ Into Design Systems is May 25-28
Get your ticket at intodesignsystems.com/ontheme

Into Design Systems is back with their annual virtual conference, May 28-30, 2025. Get your ticket now for three days of practical, hands on sessions showing the what, why, and how of design systems. This year, the conference is focused on developer handoff, accessibility, multi brand theming, and governance. You'll get hands on knowledge you can put to use at work immediately, files and resources to take away, and hear from very well known industry speakers. 

📲 Send me a text!

Support the show

]]> I'm thrilled to have the one and only Dan Mall on the show, and in this episode, we get deep into all the things you maybe don't want to do if you want your design system to be successful. Dan shares his experiences with failed design systems, one very failed attempt at pitching a system to leadership,  why he thinks design systems should be specific not generic and maybe... not include foundations? Plus, we talk about useless documentation, what's next for systems, and THE spiciest take on tokens.

(Honestly, there are so many 🌶️ Spicy Takes™️ in this episode, we might have to rename the show to Design System Spicy Takes!)

💖 On Theme is a brand new podcast, so if you like what you're hearing, please hit subscribe and sign up at designsystemsontheme.com!

Links & References


🎨🎟️ Into Design Systems is May 25-28
Get your ticket at intodesignsystems.com/ontheme

Into Design Systems is back with their annual virtual conference, May 28-30, 2025. Get your ticket now for three days of practical, hands on sessions showing the what, why, and how of design systems. This year, the conference is focused on developer handoff, accessibility, multi brand theming, and governance. You'll get hands on knowledge you can put to use at work immediately, files and resources to take away, and hear from very well known industry speakers. 

📲 Send me a text!

Support the show

]]> Elyse Holladay Buzzsprout-16573554 Mon, 10 Feb 2025 08:00:00 -0800 3265 1 4 full false Layoffs, rebrands, and getting "zero results" from your design system, with Noelle Lansford — #03 Layoffs, rebrands, and getting "zero results" from your design system, with Noelle Lansford — #03 You can't talk about design systems lately without addressing the elephant in the room: layoffs. Noelle walks us through her experience of multiple layoffs in one year, why 2023 was so different than 2020, and how the success criteria of design systems correlated with team layoffs. We discuss the bogeyman of "getting zero results from your design system" and what Noelle was hearing from business leadership about that, and how storytelling might matter more than metrics. Plus, a very spicy take on ~the rebrand~, and why at least one company was hiring for someone to delete  their design system 😱

Warning: F-word/language.

💖 On Theme is a brand new podcast, so if you like what you're hearing, please hit subscribe and sign up at designsystemsontheme.com!

Links & References


🎨🎟️ Into Design Systems is May 25-28
Get your ticket at intodesignsystems.com/ontheme

Into Design Systems is back with their annual virtual conference, May 28-30, 2025. Get your ticket now for three days of practical, hands on sessions showing the what, why, and how of design systems. This year, the conference is focused on developer handoff, accessibility, multi brand theming, and governance. You'll get hands on knowledge you can put to use at work immediately, files and resources to take away, and hear from very well known industry speakers. 

📲 Send me a text!

Support the show

]]> You can't talk about design systems lately without addressing the elephant in the room: layoffs. Noelle walks us through her experience of multiple layoffs in one year, why 2023 was so different than 2020, and how the success criteria of design systems correlated with team layoffs. We discuss the bogeyman of "getting zero results from your design system" and what Noelle was hearing from business leadership about that, and how storytelling might matter more than metrics. Plus, a very spicy take on ~the rebrand~, and why at least one company was hiring for someone to delete  their design system 😱

Warning: F-word/language.

💖 On Theme is a brand new podcast, so if you like what you're hearing, please hit subscribe and sign up at designsystemsontheme.com!

Links & References


🎨🎟️ Into Design Systems is May 25-28
Get your ticket at intodesignsystems.com/ontheme

Into Design Systems is back with their annual virtual conference, May 28-30, 2025. Get your ticket now for three days of practical, hands on sessions showing the what, why, and how of design systems. This year, the conference is focused on developer handoff, accessibility, multi brand theming, and governance. You'll get hands on knowledge you can put to use at work immediately, files and resources to take away, and hear from very well known industry speakers. 

📲 Send me a text!

Support the show

]]> Elyse Holladay Buzzsprout-16530448 Mon, 03 Feb 2025 09:00:00 -0800 3505 1 3 full false When Design Systems became A Thing with Jina Anne — #02 When Design Systems became A Thing with Jina Anne — #02 Jina Anne gives us a history of the journey from early style guides to widespread industry adoption of design systems, and the challenges and successes. We explore how tokens came to be, how it feels when the engineering team just starts using your work before it's ready, the separation of HTML/CSS/JS concerns, and how ClarityConf got started. Plus, the origin of the phrase "design systems" (maybe?), and  what the NASA Graphic Standards Manual has to do with ClarityConf.

💖 On Theme is a brand new podcast, so if you like what you're hearing, please hit subscribe and sign up at designsystemsontheme.com!

Links & References


🎨🎟️ Into Design Systems is May 25-28
Get your ticket at intodesignsystems.com/ontheme

Into Design Systems is back with their annual virtual conference, May 28-30, 2025. Get your ticket now for three days of practical, hands on sessions showing the what, why, and how of design systems. This year, the conference is focused on developer handoff, accessibility, multi brand theming, and governance. You'll get hands on knowledge you can put to use at work immediately, files and resources to take away, and hear from very well known industry speakers. 

📲 Send me a text!

Support the show

]]> Jina Anne gives us a history of the journey from early style guides to widespread industry adoption of design systems, and the challenges and successes. We explore how tokens came to be, how it feels when the engineering team just starts using your work before it's ready, the separation of HTML/CSS/JS concerns, and how ClarityConf got started. Plus, the origin of the phrase "design systems" (maybe?), and  what the NASA Graphic Standards Manual has to do with ClarityConf.

💖 On Theme is a brand new podcast, so if you like what you're hearing, please hit subscribe and sign up at designsystemsontheme.com!

Links & References


🎨🎟️ Into Design Systems is May 25-28
Get your ticket at intodesignsystems.com/ontheme

Into Design Systems is back with their annual virtual conference, May 28-30, 2025. Get your ticket now for three days of practical, hands on sessions showing the what, why, and how of design systems. This year, the conference is focused on developer handoff, accessibility, multi brand theming, and governance. You'll get hands on knowledge you can put to use at work immediately, files and resources to take away, and hear from very well known industry speakers. 

📲 Send me a text!

Support the show

]]> Elyse Holladay Buzzsprout-16458094 Mon, 27 Jan 2025 08:00:00 -0800 3290 1 2 full false Efficiency, respect, and the origins of design systems with Brad Frost — #01 Efficiency, respect, and the origins of design systems with Brad Frost — #01 Brad Frost takes us back in time to the early days of design systems, and walks us through some of the significant moments of evolution from style guides to modern design systems. We dig in to the multiple proto-Storybook-esque projects, the original problem of sharing UI patterns, what React did, and Brad's personal moment of "oh, it's called design systems now." Plus, a bonus podcast throwback from the Style Guides Podcast feat. Dave Rupert and some early proto-Storybook madness.

💖 On Theme is a brand new podcast, so if you like what you're hearing, please hit subscribe and sign up at designsystemsontheme.com!

Links & References

 
🎨🎟️ Into Design Systems is May 25-28
Get your ticket at intodesignsystems.com/ontheme

Into Design Systems is back with their annual virtual conference, May 28-30, 2025. Get your ticket now for three days of practical, hands on sessions showing the what, why, and how of design systems. This year, the conference is focused on developer handoff, accessibility, multi brand theming, and governance. You'll get hands on knowledge you can put to use at work immediately, files and resources to take away, and hear from very well known industry speakers. 

📲 Send me a text!

Support the show

]]> Brad Frost takes us back in time to the early days of design systems, and walks us through some of the significant moments of evolution from style guides to modern design systems. We dig in to the multiple proto-Storybook-esque projects, the original problem of sharing UI patterns, what React did, and Brad's personal moment of "oh, it's called design systems now." Plus, a bonus podcast throwback from the Style Guides Podcast feat. Dave Rupert and some early proto-Storybook madness.

💖 On Theme is a brand new podcast, so if you like what you're hearing, please hit subscribe and sign up at designsystemsontheme.com!

Links & References

 
🎨🎟️ Into Design Systems is May 25-28
Get your ticket at intodesignsystems.com/ontheme

Into Design Systems is back with their annual virtual conference, May 28-30, 2025. Get your ticket now for three days of practical, hands on sessions showing the what, why, and how of design systems. This year, the conference is focused on developer handoff, accessibility, multi brand theming, and governance. You'll get hands on knowledge you can put to use at work immediately, files and resources to take away, and hear from very well known industry speakers. 

📲 Send me a text!

Support the show

]]> Elyse Holladay Buzzsprout-16450362 Mon, 20 Jan 2025 08:00:00 -0800 2612 1 1 full false On Theme S1 Minisode 2: 2025 Predictions On Theme S1 Minisode 2: 2025 Predictions Elyse shares five predictions for design systems in 2025 and beyond in the second pre-season minisode. Text the show to share your thoughts and predictions and maybe even be featured in a future minisode!

Early Bird tickets are available until January 15th for Into Design System's excellent annual virtual conference, featuring Nathan Curtis, Romina Kavcic, Cintia Romero, and more. Get your tickets now before prices go up at intodesignsystems.com/ontheme

📲 Send me a text!

Support the show

]]> Elyse shares five predictions for design systems in 2025 and beyond in the second pre-season minisode. Text the show to share your thoughts and predictions and maybe even be featured in a future minisode!

Early Bird tickets are available until January 15th for Into Design System's excellent annual virtual conference, featuring Nathan Curtis, Romina Kavcic, Cintia Romero, and more. Get your tickets now before prices go up at intodesignsystems.com/ontheme

📲 Send me a text!

Support the show

]]> Elyse Holladay Buzzsprout-16373923 Mon, 06 Jan 2025 05:00:00 -0800 1111 1 bonus false On Theme S1 Minisode 1 On Theme S1 Minisode 1 Are design systems in the trough of disillusionment? Elyse explores the past decade of design systems and what we're missing in this pre-season one minisode. 

📲 Send me a text!

Support the show

]]> Are design systems in the trough of disillusionment? Elyse explores the past decade of design systems and what we're missing in this pre-season one minisode. 

📲 Send me a text!

Support the show

]]> Elyse Holladay Buzzsprout-16258646 Thu, 12 Dec 2024 10:00:00 -0800 816 1 trailer false On Theme: The Trailer On Theme: The Trailer 📲 Send me a text!

Support the show

]]> 📲 Send me a text!

Support the show

]]> Elyse Holladay Buzzsprout-15981806 Wed, 23 Oct 2024 19:00:00 -0700 137 1 1 trailer false