Betsy Brown McClelland spent over a decade teaching medieval history and humane letters in the Great Hearts network—watching students encounter saints, suffer through Socratic seminars, and walk out of her classroom different people. 

In this episode, she traces her own story: from a rich homeschooled childhood into a season of spiritual and intellectual numbness, through a college awakening, and into a classroom conversion she never anticipated. 

What's in This Episode:

• How Betsy's transition from homeschool to public school left her desensitized—intellectually and spiritually
• The role of college, Dr. Peter Kreeft, and learning that pursuit itself is the point
• How teaching eighth grade medieval history accidentally led to Betsy's own Catholic conversion
• What a generation of students dealing with social media, COVID, and loneliness taught her about the healing power of great books
• Why Socratic discussion, not social-emotional programming, is the activity that actually unifies intellectual and moral formation

                                                                                                                                                  .

Chapters:

• 00:00: Welcome and introduction to Betsy McClellan
• 09:47: Homeschooling, early reading, and the first signs of numbness
• 19:14: What was at the center of your education growing up?
• 25:24: College, Dr. Peter Kreeft, and learning to pursue truth
• 35:15: Writing, poetry, and becoming a liberal arts student
• 44:18: How Betsy became a teacher
• 51:30: Teaching eighth grade and medieval history
• 01:00:42: Students, the supernatural, and a generation in crisis
• 01:12:38: Socratic discussion and the healing power of the classroom
• 01:19:55: The community of teachers and a closing poem

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Resources Mentioned:

• City Nave by Betsy K. Brown
• The Anxious Generation by Jonathan Haidt
• The Dignity of Dependence by Leah Libresco Sargeant
• Arcadia Education
• Classical Learning Test

Hosted by Ryan Klopak (Arcadia Education) and Alex Julian (CLT). The Furrows podcast features leaders in classical education who have been transformed by classical education.

Produced by Saint Kolbe Studios

Matt Skinner, longtime head of school at Heritage Classical Academy in Atlanta, Georgia, returns for part two of his conversation with Ryan and Alex. 

This time, Matt unpacks the four-pillar framework: purpose, people, programs, and place, that guided Heritage from a bold vision to one of the most respected classical high schools in the country.

What's in This Episode:

• Why purpose must come before everything else, and how a clear destination statement creates guardrails for every major decision
• How Matt recruited top-tier talent from within his own community, often before he had a defined role for them
• The financial philosophy behind investing in people ahead of revenue, and why a scarcity mindset quietly kills school growth
• What "hoarding talent" actually looks like in practice, and why a three-year investment horizon is essential for developing leaders
• How Heritage approached beauty in its facilities as a direct expression of its mission, and why stewarding what you have matters more than the size of your building

Chapters:

• 00:00: Welcome and Introduction
• 01:43: The Heritage Story and the Four P's Framework
• 02:52: Purpose: Building a Clear and Compelling Vision
• 05:17: People: Hiring for Mission Alignment Over Credentials
• 16:09: Fundraising and the Abundance vs. Scarcity Mindset
• 21:00: How to Identify and Recruit Leaders
• 34:27: The Portrait of a Graduate
• 40:22: Programs: Letting People Build What They Believe
• 49:41: Place: Beauty as a Reflection of Mission
• 57:29: The Strategic Financial Plan: Define, Determine, Deliver

Resources Mentioned:

• The Herzog Foundation
• Jim Collins, Good to Great (the flywheel concept)
• C.S. Lewis, "First and Second Things" in God in the Dock
• Society for Classical Learning
• Arcadia Education
• Classical Learning Test (CLT)

Hosted by Ryan Klopak (Arcadia Education) and Alex Julian (CLT). The Furrows podcast features leaders in classical education who have been transformed by classical education.

Produced by Saint Kolbe Studios

Matt Skinner spent over two decades leading Christian schools—most notably as the longtime head of school at Heritage Preparatory School in Atlanta, Georgia. 

But he didn't start there. He's a Texas-raised athlete, former CPA, and reluctant educator who found his calling at a school board meeting in 1995—having never once set foot in a school as anything other than a student.

Today he does consulting work, helping schools and leaders think through the kind of formation and culture that actually sticks. 

What's in This Episode:

• How an athlete and CPA became a head of school—by accident
• Why easy schools produce fragile students
• The case against snowplow parenting and what to do instead
• How The Lost Tools of Learning flipped his view of Christian education
• What it actually takes to build a high school from scratch

Chapters:

• 00:00: Intro & Guest Welcome
• 02:32: Growing Up in Texas
• 04:55: Flaming Out at Rice
• 07:45: A Damascus Moment
• 10:05: Baseball, Tracy, and Starting Over
• 14:26: The Board Retreat That Changed Everything
• 28:04: Failure, Grit, and Snowplow Parenting
• 40:12: Stepping Into the Head of School Role
• 49:55: Discovering Classical Education
• 59:27: Building Heritage's High School

Resources:

• The Lost Tools of Learning — Dorothy Sayers
• Society for Classical Learning
• Arcadia Education
• Classical Learning Test (CLT)
• Heritage Preparatory School

Hosted by Ryan Klopak (Arcadia Education) and Alex Julian (CLT). The Furrows podcast features leaders in classical education who have been transformed by classical education.

Produced by Saint Kolbe Studios

Dr. Kathleen O'Toole is the Associate VP for K-12 Education at Hillsdale College. However, she didn't arrive at classical education through a straight line. She grew up attending a good-but-not-classical school, survived a grueling private prep high school, found her footing at Hillsdale Academy, and finally experienced the full power of a classical curriculum at the University of Dallas. 

Today she leads Hillsdale's K–12 Schools office, helping communities around the country start and sustain classical schools. 

What's in This Episode: 

• The difference between a good school and a classical school 
• Joyful rigor vs. rigor for rigor's sake
• The moment classical education clicked
• What Hillsdale's K–12 office actually does
• Why K–12 matters for teachers; not just students 

Chapters: 

• 00:00 Intro & Guest Welcome 
• 01:30 Growing Up at St. Mark's Episcopal School 
• 07:30 The Power of Joyful Rigor 
• 10:30 School Culture & Traditions That Stick 
• 14:00 Classical Education at Home Before It Had a Name 
• 16:00 Rigor Without Purpose 
• 27:00 Moving to Michigan & Hillsdale Academy 
• 35:00 The Startup School Experience 
• 44:00 University of Dallas & the Core Curriculum 
• 52:00 Finding a Calling: Political Philosophy 
• 55:00 Teachers as Fellow Students 
• 1:01:00 Joyful vs. Joyless Rigor: The Key Difference 
• 1:05:00 Hillsdale's K-12 Office Today 

Resources:

Hillsdale K–12 Schools  

Arcadia Education 

Classical Learning Test 

Hosted by Ryan Klopak (Arcadia Education) and Alex Julian (CLT). The Furrows podcast features leaders in classical education who have been transformed by classical education. Produced by Saint Kolbe Studios

Education Savings Accounts

In this compelling episode of Schooling America, we are honored to host James Felton, a renowned leadership coach and organizational health expert. Known for his transformative work with Fortune 500 companies as well as burgeoning startups, James is a trusted consultant in the methodology of Patrick Lencioni, author of seminal works like "The Five Dysfunctions of a Team" and "The Advantage."

Our conversation dives deep into Lencioni's model for fostering organizational health, a subject that James is deeply passionate about. With a client portfolio that includes diverse companies like The North Face and Ruggable, James brings a wealth of experience to the table. More pertinently, he has invested significant time working with school leadership teams, understanding the unique challenges they encounter in cultivating a vibrant team and school culture.

This episode is a must-listen for educational leaders and administrators who aim to elevate trust, morale, and productivity within their institutions. James offers invaluable insights into how schools can achieve not just functional but cohesive and thriving teams, thereby fulfilling their mission with greater efficacy and impact.

In this enlightening episode of Schooling America, we are joined by Todd Davis, the co-founder and former CEO of LifeLock, and a longtime board member and parent at Great Hearts Academies. Todd delves into the captivating journey of LifeLock, sharing insights into the audacious advertising campaign that catapulted the company into the national spotlight. Beyond the world of identity protection, Todd brings his seasoned perspective to the table on the essence of effective leadership. Drawing from his experience in both the corporate realm and the educational landscape, he explores how judicious decision-making can galvanize teams and steer organizations towards their mission. Whether you are an educational leader striving for excellence or an administrator seeking to invigorate your team, this episode offers a treasury of wisdom on leadership, strategy, and the audacity to innovate.

The Schooling America podcast covers issues and ideas relevant to leaders in American education. We bring in the brightest minds in administration, philosophy, culture, and beyond to reflect on topics that directly impact schools, organizations, and the children and families they serve. From cultural issues to operations to curriculum and pedagogy, Schooling America seeks to enrich the ideas, strategy, and execution of education institutions nationwide.