Anna starts us off with a hot take: she believes that a brand's issues with growth have little to do with driving traffic and more to do with positioning. Too many brands invest heavily in driving more visitors to their websites, assuming that an increase in volume will naturally translate into better results. But without a clear and compelling positioning strategy, even the best traffic efforts can fall short. When messaging isn’t aligned with what truly matters to the customer, your conversion is going to suffer. 

Anna also talked about the difference between good and great partners when hiring new partners. It’s no longer enough for vendors or agencies to lead with credentials, experience, or a list of clients. Marketing leaders are looking for partners who demonstrate a genuine understanding of their business. This means bringing thoughtful insights to the table, identifying potential gaps, and offering clear, actionable ideas on how to move the business forward.

This is why finding partners who operate as an extension of the internal team is so important. Anna and I worked together through YouShouldTalkTo to hire new and aligned partners for Current Backyard. We found that the most effective partnerships, and the ones who got hired, were those who demonstrated that they could integrate seamlessly into the brand's teams, contribute strategically, and help drive momentum rather than simply execute tasks.

Tune into Anna's episode to hear more on how Anna is hiring for her company and how she’s positioning Current Backyard as a category-defining brand.

Guest-at-a-Glance

💡 Name: Anna Grant, General Manager at Current Backyard

💡 Where to find them: LinkedIn

Key Insights

Positioning Is the Real Growth Lever

Many brands assume their biggest challenge is driving more traffic, but the real issue is often deeper than that. Without strong positioning, even the most effective acquisition strategies struggle to convert. When a brand clearly communicates its value and differentiation, every marketing effort becomes more efficient and impactful.

Insight-Driven Partners Stand Out

The most valuable partners don’t just present you with their credentials - they bring their own perspective to the company. When vendors take the time to deeply understand a brand, identify gaps, and offer actionable solutions, they elevate the conversation. This level of preparation demonstrates strategic thinking and positions them as true collaborators rather than just service providers.

Fix What’s Working Before Replacing It

Finding a group of partners who work seamlessly together is, I find, more valuable than just firing and hiring someone new. Before making any structural changes, it’s important to take a look at your current partners and strengthen existing relationships. Optimizing current partnerships can often be more effective than starting from scratch.

At the same time, the conversation highlights a practical challenge: even as people crave connection, it can still be difficult to bring them together. In the episode, Michele mentions that COVID-induced social anxiety has shifted the way people interact with each other, and now people want to return to what normal looked like before COVID. People want to go out in theory, but it still feels like a hurdle in the moment. This makes it even more important for brands to create experiences that feel truly valuable - something worth showing up for.

We’re living in strange times, and besides this transition period in consumer behavior, Michele also stresses the importance of surrounding yourself with the right people. Success in today’s environment is not about having all the answers, but about surrounding yourself with people who bring diverse perspectives, deeper expertise, and a willingness to collaborate. As consumer trends continue to evolve, staying open, asking questions, and learning from others becomes a key driver of growth. So if you’re working on building your network - be nice, be useful, and do your research.

Tune into Michele's episode to hear more tips on networking and how to keep up with consumer trends in this week’s episode.

Guest-at-a-Glance
💡 Name: Michele Morris, VP of Marketing at Big Green Egg

💡 Where to find them: LinkedIn

Key Insights

Human Connection Is Becoming a Differentiator

While digital experiences continue to dominate, there’s a growing desire for real, in-person connection. Consumers are seeking moments that feel tangible. Brands that create opportunities for people to come together—through events, experiences, or community—have an advantage in building deeper relationships with their audiences.

Surround Yourself With People Who Elevate You

Success today is less about having all the answers and more about building the right team of people who do have all the answers. Today’s marketing leaders need to prioritize surrounding themselves with people who bring diverse perspectives and fresh thinking. The ability to collaborate with people who challenge and expand your viewpoint is a major competitive advantage.

Value and Trust Are the Foundation of Relationships

Strong professional relationships are built on trust, consistency, and genuine value. Whether internally or externally, people want to work with those who are thoughtful in how they show up. Building a strong network isn’t about how many people you have on your team; it’s about the meaningful connections you can lean on when the time is right.

Modern marketing leaders need to balance innovation and brand integrity in an increasingly changing online landscape. There is a time and place for everything, including AI. Anne stresses that marketing leaders should not treat AI like the shiny new thing on the scene. If it doesn’t work for your brand, it could hurt it in the long run. Tools and technologies should be used to evolve; the most effective strategies are still grounded in customer understanding and seamless agency collaborations.

Seamless agency collaborations can only be possible when there’s a certain level of mutual respect. Good marketing is not created in a vacuum, and neither are strong cross-collaborations between departments. The strongest partnerships are created when each team recognizes the expertise the other brings to the table. When that respect is there, collaboration becomes more productive, decisions become more aligned, and outcomes improve across the organization.

Anne also shares her experiences hiring an amazing agency and how a single phone call can make client/agency relationships a whole lot simpler. When working with YouShouldTalkTo, there was an amazing agency that seemed to drop the ball in the last interview. But thanks to one phone call in the middle of the workday, and some advice from our host Daniel, they were ready to work together. Sometimes, the formality of the hiring process can get in the way of great collaboration, so don’t be afraid to pick up that phone!

Tune into Anne's episode to hear her thoughts on how to use AI and how to have seamless collaborations with agencies in this week’s episode.

Guest-at-a-Glance

💡 Name: Anne Mejia, CMO at Cornerstone Franchise Brands / First Light Home Care

💡 Where to find them: LinkedIn

Key Insights

Frontline Insights Are a Competitive Advantage

Data can tell you what is happening, but people on the ground can tell you why. Tapping into franchisees, field teams, or customer-facing employees provides real-time, nuanced insights that research alone often misses. These perspectives can help marketers make the smart decisions they need to stay ahead of the game. The more connected marketing is to frontline feedback, the more effective and relevant it becomes.

Evolve Your Brand With Intention

Change is necessary, but it should never feel random. The most successful brands evolve thoughtfully. Instead of reacting to trends, effective marketers adapt where needed while maintaining consistency. This balance helps brands stay relevant without losing the trust they’ve built over time.

Seamless Execution Sets Great Agency Partners Apart

Creative ideas are important, but execution is where value is delivered between agencies and clients. Especially in production environments, success depends on managing countless tiny details behind the scenes. The best agency partners bring structure, organization, and clarity to complex processes, making everything feel effortless for the client. 

There is still a level of professionalism and balance that has to be recognized when reaching out to potential clients. While standing out is important, there is a fine line between being memorable and appearing unprofessional. The worst thing you can be is cringe. Creative outreach can be effective, but when it becomes overly gimmicky, it can damage your credibility. In most cases, straightforward communication and clear value propositions resonate better with potential partners.

Eric also talked about how the role of a marketer is evolving and how you can get that promotion faster if you loop the finance department into your work. While many marketing professionals enter the field driven by creativity and a passion for connecting with customers, long-term success often requires developing a strong understanding of financial performance. As marketers advance in their careers, the ability to communicate effectively with finance teams becomes increasingly important. Understanding profitability, revenue drivers, and financial priorities allows marketers to translate their work into outcomes that resonate with executive leadership.

There's also the growing fatigue around generic agency messaging. In a crowded marketplace, decision-makers are increasingly skeptical of templated language and buzzwords. It’s not personal enough to turn anyone’s heads, and when everyone is saying the same thing, marketing leaders only see a lack of options. Instead of relying on broad claims about partnership and collaboration, agencies that stand out focus on authentic conversations and meaningful engagement. Building trust through genuine dialogue and thoughtful introductions, like those from YouShouldTalkTo, often creates stronger opportunities to collaborate.

💡 Where to find them: LinkedIn

Key Insights

Marketing Leaders Should Speak the Language of Finance

One of the most important shifts in a marketer’s career happens when they begin connecting their work to financial outcomes. Early roles often focus on creativity, messaging, and campaign execution, but advancement requires a deeper understanding of how marketing impacts revenue, profitability, and long-term business growth. When marketers can communicate effectively with finance teams, they elevate their influence within the organization. This will help bridge the gap between creative strategy and business impact.

Authentic Conversations Beat Generic Messaging

In a crowded agency landscape, decision-makers are getting more and more frustrated with templated messaging and generic positioning statements. Every agency is giving every potential client the whole ‘we don’t have clients, we have partners’ speech and marketing leaders are catching on. What stands out today is authenticity. Real conversations, thoughtful introductions, and meaningful connections carry far more weight than polished marketing copy. 

Standing Out Should Never Sacrifice Professionalism

Creativity is a powerful tool in marketing, but it has to have a certain level of professionalism to it, too. Agencies that try too hard to be memorable or unconventional can sometimes cross the line into tactics that feel awkward or unprofessional to decision-makers. Don’t be cringe. Clear communication, thoughtful messaging, and professional tone create stronger impressions than cringey gimmicks.

As we discuss Meghan’s newest agency partnership, facilitated by YouShouldTalkTo, of course, past agency experiences shape future decision-making. When teams go through a challenging partnership, it can clarify what they truly value in a collaborator. Clear communication, demonstrated strategic thinking, and visible execution capabilities become non-negotiables. Leaders are not just looking for creative ideas - they want partners who can follow through, integrate seamlessly, and show tangible progress. Both positive and negative experiences can help you make more confident and discerning decisions during future tissue meetings.

Speaking of tissue sessions, presentation and professionalism also play a major role in shaping a future client's perception. The way a team shows up visually, verbally, and strategically is a sign of alignment. At least, that’s what Meghan felt during a recent tissue session with a potential agency (who won the project by a landslide). When teams present themselves as composed, experienced, and prepared, it reinforces the sense that they can deliver results. It’s not about theatrics or begging for the sale - it’s about clarity, capability, and conviction.

Tune into Meghan's episode to hear what got the new agency the gig and what made her want to leave her old agency behind.

Guest-at-a-Glance
💡 Name: Meghan Irwin, Marketing Director, Blaze Pizza

💡 Where to find them: LinkedIn

Key Insights

Agency Outreach Needs to Evolve

Marketing Directors are experiencing outreach fatigue. I know, I talk to them every day. Generic cold emails and templated LinkedIn messages no longer stand out in a crowded environment where everyone is pitching something. But also, did they ever? Brands are looking for thoughtful, relevant engagement that demonstrates understanding and intent. They’re only answering cold calls that are 1) relevant and 2) useful. The brands that win attention today are the ones that respect time, demonstrate relevance, and lead with value rather than persistence.

One Lesson From a Past Partnership Can Create Clarity

Challenging agency relationships can be powerful learning experiences. When a partnership falls short, it often sharpens a leader’s understanding of what they truly need in a collaborator. If one thing goes wrong, write it down and address it in a tissue session with a new agency. You don’t want to repeat the same pattern over and over again. Instead of starting from square one, teams should come to the table knowing what works, what doesn’t, and what to look for. This clarity streamlines decision-making and improves the quality of future collaborations. 

Professional Presence Builds Confidence

First impressions still matter. How a team presents itself - from preparation to delivery - signals how seriously they take the opportunity. Professionalism, organization, and confidence can set the tone for the entire relationship. It’s not about flash or begging, “pick me, choose me.” It’s about demonstrating capability and cohesion. When agencies show up as composed, experienced professionals who understand the business, it builds immediate credibility. 

There has to be a difference between brand building and just staying busy. Many organizations believe they are investing in brand growth, but in reality, Ana says they are often optimizing for short-term metrics and vanity wins. This focus on activity rather than results can create the illusion of progress while also distracting teams from deeper strategic work that drives sustained growth. The pressure for immediate results can make it difficult to invest in campaigns that strengthen brand trust and recognition over time. But there is still the demand for both. Ana shares why it keeps her up at night and how she balances the two demands. 

Trust also emerges as a central pillar when reaching out to audiences. People are relying more on personal recommendations and professional networks than on ads. Influencers and local TikTokers carry much more emotional weight with their audiences than they did ten years ago. This human element shows us how business decisions nowadays have to be rooted in credibility and shared experience, not just credentials or presentations.

Guest-at-a-Glance

💡 Name: Ana Malmqvist, Chief Brand Officer, The Melting Pot

💡 Where to find them: LinkedIn

Key Insights

Brand Building Requires Long-Term Discipline

Many marketing teams believe they are building strong brands, but in reality, they are often prioritizing empty activity and short-term wins. When organizations reward speed over strategy, it can create a cycle of constant output without meaningful impact. True brand building requires patience, consistency, and a focus on long-term trust and differentiation. Leaders who shift their teams from chasing quick metrics to building sustained value will always create stronger brand equity and more resilient growth. The most effective marketers know that real brand momentum is built over time, not just through rapid-fire campaigns or temporary spikes in performance.

Trust Is Built Through People, Not Just Messaging

Brand support today is increasingly rooted in shared values, especially among younger audiences. Purchasing decisions are no longer just transactional - they’re personal. Consumers want to feel good about the brands they support and confident that those brands reflect their beliefs. This evolution has fundamentally changed marketing. Success now requires more than clever messaging or competitive pricing. Brands must clearly articulate what they stand for and consistently live those values across every touchpoint.

Reputation and Referrals Drive Partnerships

Professional recommendations and trusted networks continue to play a powerful role in decision-making. Which is why Ana came to Daniel and YouShouldTalkTo when looking for a new agency to work with. We connect leaders with our network of trusted agencies. Strong reputations are built through consistent delivery, collaboration, and integrity over time. Which is why Ana said that she felt like she found her unicorn when she met with one of the agencies we connected her with. 

Their conversation also dives into what makes agency relationships truly work. For Ameetess, technical skill and impressive credentials are table stakes. What really defines a positive agency experience is the human element. She looks for partners who are not only capable but also honest, thoughtful, and willing to challenge ideas when necessary. The ability to offer constructive pushback, communicate transparently, and act with integrity sets great partners apart from the rest. In her view, trust and character create the foundation for everything else, and without them, even the best strategy will fall short.

This conversation is a compelling reminder that success doesn’t come from chasing every opportunity or trend. It comes from choosing focus, surrounding yourself with the right people, and committing to work that actually matters. For leaders, marketers, and agency partners alike, this episode offers a clear takeaway: when purpose leads, and people are prioritized, the path forward becomes not only clearer but far more impactful.

Tune into Ameetess' episode to hear how she chooses good humans to work with when hiring agencies and how you can find the good in future opportunities, even during a turbulent economy. 

Guest-at-a-Glance
💡 Name: Ameetess Dira, CMO at Petzey

💡 Where to find them: LinkedIn

Key Insights

AI Is a Tool - Humanity Is the Differentiator

As AI continues to expand across every industry, it’s easy to fall into fear-based narratives about automation replacing human creativity. But the real opportunity lies in the opposite direction. When technology becomes ubiquitous, humanity becomes the standout. Brands that win will use AI to enhance connection, not replace it. This is the moment to lean into storytelling, empathy, and values. AI can optimize processes, surface insights, and scale execution - but it can’t replace emotional intelligence or cultural nuance. The brands that thrive will be the ones that use technology to amplify human creativity, not flatten it.

Values Now Drive Brand Loyalty

Brand support today is increasingly rooted in shared values, especially among younger audiences. Purchasing decisions are no longer just transactional - they’re personal. Consumers want to feel good about the brands they support and confident that those brands reflect their beliefs. This evolution has fundamentally changed marketing. Success now requires more than clever messaging or competitive pricing. Brands must clearly articulate what they stand for and consistently live those values across every touchpoint.

Choosing Progress Over Negativity

The world is full of challenges, and it’s easy for teams to become overwhelmed by everything that isn’t working. But progress is driven by perspective. Leaders who focus on possibility - rather than paralysis - create environments where innovation can thrive. Every path forward involves difficulty. The difference lies in choosing challenges that lead to growth instead of stagnation. When teams reframe obstacles as opportunities, they build resilience and optimism into their culture.

Kurt Uhlir opens the show with an incredible reality check: most people who call themselves marketers aren’t truly practicing marketing. Too often, professionals default to playing it safe - focusing on surface-level activities or vanity metrics - rather than digging into what really drives customer decisions. So instead of focusing on the brand becoming memorable or stretching their longevity, they get campaigns that sound generic, strategies that lack insight. He says that “95% of people who call themselves marketers are not marketers. At best, they’re salespeople who are scared to make cold calls, and they hide behind dashboards and campaigns.” And I have to agree

True marketing, Uhlir explains, begins with understanding people. Every team member - whether in sales, product, or marketing - should be able to describe a customer’s day in detail. What problems are they solving? What tools do they rely on? What’s on their budget line? This level of empathy transforms a company from simply selling features to solving real-world problems in a meaningful way.

Guest-at-a-Glance

💡 Name: Kurt Uhlir, CMO at ez Home Search

💡 Where to find them: LinkedIn

Key Insights

Marketing Isn’t Just Campaigns - It’s Courage and Strategy

Many professionals wear the “marketer” title but focus only on dashboards and reports instead of driving meaningful results. True marketing takes courage - the kind that steps out from behind vanity metrics to make bold, customer-centered decisions. The best marketers blend creativity with accountability. They’re not afraid of direct outreach, real conversations, or tough questions about impact. It’s easy to get caught up in automation and performance data, but those tools are only valuable when used with intention. Successful marketers understand that their role is to create measurable business outcomes - not just generate clicks. The real pros know how to connect strategy, storytelling, and results to move the business forward.

Innovation Doesn’t Come from Playing It Safe

Hiring based solely on tenure or industry experience often feels like the safest move - but it can lead to stale, predictable marketing. Fresh ideas rarely come from echo chambers. Leaders who embrace diverse perspectives and unconventional thinkers drive the kind of creativity that cuts through the noise. Taking calculated risks doesn’t mean being reckless; it means challenging the assumption that what worked yesterday will work tomorrow. The brands that stand out are those willing to step outside the comfort zone, rethink “how it’s always been done,” and trust their teams to experiment with new approaches.

Long-Term Wins Beat Short-Term Popularity

The best marketers play the long game. While others chase quarterly spikes and vanity metrics, they invest in sustainable strategies that compound over time. Building brand equity, customer loyalty, and trust takes patience - but the rewards are exponentially greater. Short-term gains fade fast; long-term relationships drive growth that lasts.

For leaders like Jeff, navigating this new era means embracing change with curiosity rather than fear. The rules of marketing may be rewriting themselves in real time, but the fundamentals of human connection remain steady. Consumers still want products and experiences that make life better, easier, and more enjoyable. They want to trust the brands they interact with, and they want to feel seen and understood. So Jeff and CMOs like him have something to stay grounded in.

While the “what” of marketing continues to shift - new platforms, tools, and algorithms emerging daily - the “why” behind it all hasn’t changed. It’s still about delivering genuine value. The difference now lies in how fast brands can interpret and act on those needs.

One of the most interesting takeaways from the episode is that creativity doesn’t have to come with a massive price tag. In the episode, Jeff shares how an agency he was working with at Taco Bell pitched an award-winning idea with a budget of on;y $25,000. And that’s not that uncommon. It’s impressive, for sure, but some of the most impactful campaigns in marketing history were made because of the guardrails that they had to work with. When teams focus on the power of an idea instead of the size of the budget, they unlock opportunities for innovation that can truly move the needle.

Guest-at-a-Glance

💡 Name: Jeff Jenkins, CMO

💡 Where to find them: LinkedIn

Key Insights

Adapting to a Faster Future

Change isn’t slowing down - it’s speeding up. The pace of evolution in marketing, technology, and consumer behavior has hit record highs, and brands that thrive are the ones embracing agility. The mindset shift? Treat change as an ally, not a threat. Teams that anticipate and adapt to disruption - from AI tools to emerging cultural trends - will be the ones redefining categories. The future belongs to leaders who view constant transformation as a creative opportunity rather than a challenge to survive.

Embracing the “Fake It Till You Make It” Era

In today’s rapidly evolving marketing world, even the most seasoned leaders feel the pressure to “know it all.” Between new AI tools, younger platforms, and shifting consumer behaviors, no one can stay ahead of everything. And that’s okay! What matters most is focusing on curiosity and humility while keeping pace with innovation. Leadership isn’t about having all the answers anymore, no matter what your boss says. It’s about asking better questions, learning continuously, and empowering your teams to experiment boldly.

Big Ideas Don’t Need Big Budgets

Game-changing creativity doesn’t depend on deep pockets - it depends on insight. Some of the most impactful campaigns are born from sharp thinking, not massive production spend. When ideas connect emotionally and loop in pop culture without being cringey, they can outperform even the most expensive media buys. Great marketers focus on resonance over reach, crafting moments that feel personal and shareable. The next award-winning campaign might just start with

As she and her team prepare for the new year, Angela focuses on helping her team connect their daily work to the company’s broader mission. When people understand the purpose behind their goals, they move through challenges with more motivation and resilience. Instead of simply hitting quarterly targets, they’re inspired by the larger vision they’re contributing to.

At the heart of every one of her marketing decisions is one rule that she lives by - everything starts and ends with the customer. Angela reinforces the importance of building strategies that genuinely benefit the people they’re designed to reach. It’s not enough for innovation to be impressive - it has to be useful. Whether through improved accessibility, better service, or thoughtful design, the best marketing outcomes are those that make a tangible difference in customers’ lives. When teams stay grounded in customer insight, every new idea becomes a step toward building lasting trust and loyalty.

Guest-at-a-Glance

💡 Name: Angela Johnson, Chief Strategy + Innovation Officer at Edible Brands

💡 Where to find them: LinkedIn

Key Insights:

Data Matters - But Storytelling Wins Hearts

In marketing, numbers tell part of the story, but not the whole story. Metrics like click-through rates and conversion data are essential for optimization, but they still can’t they can’t measure emotion. The brands that stand out today are the ones that build human connections. Consumers don’t fall in love with dashboards; they fall in love with stories, purpose, and shared values. When a brand leads with emotion and authenticity, data becomes a supporting character, not the star of the show. The best marketers know how to combine analytical insight with creative storytelling to spark loyalty and trust that lasts far beyond a campaign.

Marketing Is About Integration, Not Interruption

The days of shouting your message into the void are over. Modern marketing thrives when brands become part of their audience’s daily rhythm. It’s about showing up in meaningful ways - in their feeds, conversations, and communities - without disrupting the experience. When a brand integrates seamlessly into people’s lives, it stops feeling like advertising and starts feeling like value. The shift from interruption to integration is the heart of modern engagement. The takeaway? Don’t just talk at your audience - find ways to live alongside them.

Agility Beats Perfection

In today’s fast-moving market, being agile matters more than being flawless. The best leaders know that “good enough and fast” often drives more impact than “perfect but late.” Agility allows brands to adapt, respond, and iterate before opportunities pass. Creativity doesn’t need to be polished to perform - it needs to be relevant. Embracing speed means embracing growth.

Recognition and awards may look great on paper, but they’re not what drives true impact. The most meaningful conversations in the boardroom or with clients aren’t about trophies - they’re about the work itself, the insights that shaped it, and the measurable results it delivered. Clients and partners want to know how the work will move their business forward, and that’s the story marketers need to tell.

Of course, none of this happens without resilience. Social platforms and digital ecosystems are constantly changing the rules of engagement, sometimes with little warning. For cannabis brands especially, navigating unpredictable restrictions has become a way of life. But these challenges can become opportunities. The businesses that thrive are the ones that balance compliance with creativity, diversifying platforms, strengthening owned media, and adapting in real time when the rules shift. 

Tune into Tony’s episode to learn more about how he and his team adapt in an industry that can shift drastically from one day to the next.

Guest-at-a-Glance
💡 Name: Tony Billmeyer, CMO at Show-Me Organics

💡 Where to find them: LinkedIn

Key Insights:

Legalization as a Growth Catalyst

Let’s legalize it! The future of the cannabis industry and cannabis marketing depends not just on legalization itself but on how it’s rolled out. A new federal law could unlock enormous potential for growth, particularly through interstate commerce and the ability to streamline operations across markets. For companies already positioned as leaders, this creates a massive opportunity, one that they're ready and prepared for.

Innovation as a Marketing Lifeline:

The most inspiring marketing teams to Tony are those that push beyond communication basics and focus on innovation. Whether it’s launching new product lines, experimenting with seasonal packaging, or exploring creative ways to connect with customers, these forward movers spark energy within their organizations. Stagnant or overly focusing on traditional tactics often lead to missed opportunities. Smart leaders recognize that creativity fuels relevance, and relevance fuels growth. 

Navigating Social Media Platform Challenges:

Social media platforms can be both a blessing and a challenge for marketers. With ever-changing rules and unpredictable enforcement, cannabis brands in particular often find themselves walking a fine line. Account suspensions and sudden restrictions are real challenges, but they also push teams to get smarter, safer, and more creative with their strategies. It can be a pain to navigate, but successful marketers know that agility is everything. By staying proactive, brands can adapt quickly to ever changing algorithms and policies while still making an impact on their audience.

Consumer connection is key, period. Instead of being distracted by endless comparisons to competitors, Nandini is doubling down on controlling what they can control by making themselves as relevant as possible to their target audience. Nandini uses “vibe shifters” to demonstrate that a consumer base can be united by outlook rather than statistics. By honing in on a customer’s vibe, they can establish a deeper connection and tailor their messaging in ways that resonate way beyond surface-level targeting.

Nandini also emphasizes the importance of reaching what she calls “light buyers,” those who may not be very loyal but represent a significant opportunity for growth. In a marketplace where brand loyalty is becoming increasingly fragile, regularly engaging with this segment can help fill the “leaky bucket” and keep brand awareness high. This means catching consumers at key decision-making moments and making the brand the naturally convenient choice.

Guest-at-a-Glance
💡 Name: Nandini Anitha Nandakumar, Global Marketing Director at Smirnoff within Diageo

💡 Where to find them: LinkedIn

Key Insights:

Balancing Short-Term Wins with Long-Term Vision

In the ever-changing consumer market, it’s very tempting to focus only on the “right now.” And being visible and trendy can be great in the short term, but lasting success comes from balancing immediate performance with future growth. Leaders today are running into very real issues - changing consumer habits, shrinking budgets, and evolving media consumption are influencing consumers in what they buy. The smartest brands address urgent needs without losing sight of the bigger picture. That means setting clear short-term goals while continuing to invest in innovation, brand equity, and deeper customer connections. Long-term planning isn’t just “nice to have” anymore; it’s necessary to stay relevant when the market starts to shift again.

Meeting the Demand for Convenience

Today’s consumers, especially younger audiences, are gravitating toward products that fit seamlessly into their fast-paced lives. Convenience isn’t just a perk, it’s an expectation. One major opportunity brands can explore is adapting offerings to meet this demand without sacrificing quality or brand integrity. Nandini says that for beverage brands, ready-to-drink formats are becoming a key growth driver. When you market convenience as part of your brand’s DNA, you attract customers who value both their time and the experience you provide.

Cutting Out the Politics to Do What’s Right for the Brand

Internal politics can derail even the best client-agency relationships. When everyone is aligned around the same mission, decision-making becomes faster, execution becomes smoother, and results improve. Because if you’re not aligned, it doesn’t matter how great the work is; your agency could find itself on the chopping block at the next budget meeting.

Josh kicks things off with a very strong opinion about repurposing content: yes, reuse it, but make it native. Simply copying and pasting won’t cut it anymore. A post that works for Instagram might flop on LinkedIn or TikTok. Success on social media comes from making the effort to understand the culture of each platform and matching the content style accordingly. When your posts align with the platform and its users, it performs better—it feels tailored, not templated.

That doesn’t mean you should fall into every single trend that pops up, no matter how tempting it is. Josh talks about the pressure brands feel to go viral, which can often lead to FOMO. Marketers see quirky, offbeat content working for one brand and immediately want to replicate it, whether it fits or not. But copying extremes doesn’t guarantee success. 

In the episode, Josh tells us a story about his time at Arby’s. The brand’s legendary tweet about Pharrell’s hat at the 2014 Grammys didn’t happen by chance. It came from months of building trust between legal, leaders, and marketing. When the moment hit, the team had the confidence and alignment to act fast, and the result was $50 million worth of media coverage.

Guest-at-a-Glance

💡 Name: Josh Martin, Director of Social Media & Community Management at Church's Texas Chicken

💡 Where to find them: LinkedIn

Key Insights

Tailor Your Content to the Platform

Repurposing content is smart, but you have to be strategic about it. Today’s audiences expect content that’s not only relevant but also tailored to where they’re seeing it. Simply reposting the same asset across every platform won’t cut it. Instead, marketers should consider the nuances of each channel. What works on LinkedIn could crash and burn on TikTok. The magic happens when you align the message, format, and audience. It’s not about creating everything from scratch - it’s about refining each post with intention. When content feels like it truly belongs in someone’s feed, it’s more likely to spark engagement, drive positive reactions, and deliver real value.

You Only Have a Few Seconds - Make Them Count

Short-form video has changed the content game. If you don’t grab someone’s attention in the first three seconds, you’ve probably lost them. Audiences are constantly scrolling, and first impressions are everything. That’s why the most effective content is insight-driven. It’s not about gimmicks; it’s about understanding what your audience cares about and delivering it creatively. This is where strategy meets storytelling. When you combine smart insights with captivating visuals and tight editing, you create content that actually lands - and more importantly, sticks in your customers' minds. 

Let the Experts Cook

When marketers are trusted to follow through on strategy, the results can be magic. Too often, great ideas get watered down by too many voices or risk-averse decision-making. But when leaders stay aligned on goals and give creative teams room to execute, award-winning work happens. Just look at Josh’s team, for example! True collaboration requires trust. It’s not always easy to get everyone out of the kitchen, but when it works, the outcome is more than just a campaign. It’s momentum and its impact.

The travel marketing world has exploded with possibilities now that AI has been introduced to the industry. Internal teams and external partners are working on streamlining the travel booking process across all platforms, and in Makoto’s opinion, that means relying on the engineering team as much as you rely on your marketing team for growth. And while many companies have tried wrapping ChatGPT-like tools into itinerary builders, the results are still very surface-level compared to what customers want to see. Makoto says that whoever can deliver end-to-end, bookable experiences that are actually better than current methods will significantly shift the market.

This isn’t to say that Makoto and his team rely on data alone. He states early on in the episode that there’s such a thing as being too data-driven and that the best marketing strategies aren’t created by algorithms. While data can be a great tool to steer teams in the right direction, there has to be room for intuition, taste, and originality. 

Tune into Makoto’s episode to hear more about the future of travel and how you and your team can benefit from leaning on your engineers a bit more. 

Guest-at-a-Glance

💡 Name: Makoto Rheault-Kihara

💡What they do: VP of Growth 

💡Company: Hopper

💡 Where to find them: LinkedIn

Key Insights

Data Is Powerful, But So Is Taste

In an era where marketing is becoming increasingly more data-led, it's easy to lose sight of intuition. To keep this intuition at the forefront of their creative teams minds,  Hopper has engineered their marketing as 80% data-driven and 20% decisiveness - based on experience, taste, and bold ideas. Marketers should feel empowered to make judgment calls, not just follow the numbers. That balance is what sets great campaigns apart from the forgettable ones.

The AI Race in Travel Is Just Getting Started

AI is looking like the solution to streamlining travel booking across all platforms. And while many companies are experimenting with AI-generated itineraries, most are scratching the surface. Customers are looking for something deeper. Whoever can create an AI solution that actually improves and simplifies the trip planning experience will own a huge slice of the market. And so far, no one has cracked the code yet. 

Personalization Works Better Than Generic Gifts

When it comes to getting a foot in the door, effort matters. One of Makoto’s most memorable pitches wasn’t flashy; it was thoughtful. A short video, a personalized message, and a name handwritten on a whiteboard were all it took to stand out. Why? That pitch showed Makoto that he took the time to understand his business, knew that his company could solve Makoto’s problem, and went beyond a one-size-fits-all approach. If you're trying to break through the noise, get specific and get personal.

With a background that spans both creative strategy and performance marketing, Hillary shares how she’s navigating the shifting landscape. VPs don’t just sit around counting all their budget’s money, they strategize the best way to see what it takes to meet customers where they are. That means adapting brand messaging to the changing times without losing their identity and exploring new ways to reach their audience. We are in a new era of marketing. People are moving farther away from brick and mortar stores, and even moving away from household names in favor of the next new platform. Consumers are moving to TikTok and eventually ChatGPT, if you can believe it. 

We also touch on the future of agency partnerships, the power of social media apps like TikTok for organic marketing strategies, and what it really looks like to build relationships that move the needle. If you’re not investing in influencer marketing, you’re leaving money on the table. Companies are not seeing the same return on investment in paid ads as they used to. And it’s because people are not buying from ads, they’re buying from people.

Tune into Hillary’s episode to hear more about how you can stay ahead of the curve and invest in the right channels before you lose your audience to the next new thing. 

Guest-at-a-Glance

💡 Name: Hillary Settle, VP of Digital at Hanky Panky

💡 Where to find them: LinkedIn

Key Insights:

Today’s Products Have To Meet People Where They Are

Hillary knows that there’s always something going on that’s bigger than whatever product you're selling. Whether it’s political changes or economic instability, your audience will face unique and persistent challenges. The brands that win will be the ones that respond in real time, not just with messaging, but with solutions. It’s no longer about selling an idea, it’s about showing up in the everyday. So when the fires hit LA earlier this year, Hanky Panky partnered with a company that helped donate undergarments to women who had just lost everything. People remember that kind of thing. 

AI Is Only as Smart as Your Strategy

AI is everywhere, but it’s not enough to tell your team to just use it. Use it to do what?? AI is a tool, but it can’t do all the work for you or your team. You need a strategy. The leaders that thrive will be the ones who ask smarter questions, and not just about how AI can make them more efficient, but how it can deepen what they already do well. Tools like ChatGPT aren’t magic—they’re multipliers. And unless you’ve defined what exactly you want out of these tools, they won’t get you anywhere faster. 

TikTok is Reshaping the Beauty Commerce Landscape

Times are changing, and legacy retailers are already feeling the pressure. Platforms like TikTok Shop are redefining where and how consumers discover beauty products, and it’s working. As sales shift from brick-and-mortar storefronts to influencer campaigns, brands need to show up in the right channels with the right content. It’s not just abou

Jeff kicks off with a strong stance on AI, one that I have to agree with. While many people in C-Suite positions see it as a replacement for creative work, Jeff believes its true power lies in reinforcing the value of human marketers. As AI handles more of the routine work in a business, it's the human element, the empathy, storytelling, and intuition that we all possess, that make brands stand out. Trust and connection will be the new differentiators. Newer marketers nowadays have to lean in, not step back.

Speaking of new marketers, Jeff reflects on the data-driven culture of today’s marketing strategies. Yes, metrics matter. But insight comes from both data and curiosity. New marketers have to ask why people buy and what really motivates their behavior. He says it’s a lost art, especially among younger marketers who haven’t been trained in foundational brand positioning work. 

When asked about a terrible agency experience he’s had, Jeff told the story of a lesson he learned at an agency that didn’t necessarily value the marketing department, even though he was just hired to lead the team. He ended up having to tell leadership point-blank: marketing must have a seat at the table. If you ever find yourself in the same position, Jeff’s advice is to walk into new roles with clarity and confidence. If leadership doesn’t prioritize marketing, the partnership is doomed from the start. Investing in marketing is about more than budget; it’s about commitment, and that commitment starts at the top.

Tune into Jeff’s episode to hear more about how you can cover the blind spots you didn’t know about and how to harness that creative instinct. 

Guest-at-a-Glance
💡 Name: Jeff Crow, CEO at TapMango

💡 Where to find them: LinkedIn

Key Insights

AI is Highlighting the Best Parts of Humanity 

AI is transforming marketing—but not in the way the most recent headlines suggest. Rather than replacing marketers, it's creating an even greater need for human creativity. As AI starts to handle the more routine tasks, the marketers who will thrive are the ones who can tell compelling stories, build authentic connections, and bring emotional intelligence into their campaigns. The future of marketing still belongs to professionals who understand that tech should amplify human insight, not replace it. 

The Lost Art of Brand Positioning

In today’s fast-moving, performance-driven market, brand positioning is often overlooked. Many younger marketers just haven’t been trained to develop it, but defining your brand’s place in the market is still essential to long-term success. Positioning gives context to every campaign, it’s what allows a company to differentiate in the dreaded sea of sameness. Reinvesting in foundational brand work isn’t just smart—it’s necessary for companies that want to stand for something meaningful and stay top-of-mind when buyers are ready to make a purchase.

Hellman’s? Really?

For a creative campaign to land, it has to be brand-specific and culturally grounded. Generic ideas that could belong to any company in any category fall flat, especially when they don’t align with the product’s reality or the audience’s context. Take the recent commercial with Hellman’s mayonnaise and Katz’s deli, for example. What is Hellman’s mayonnaise doing at Katz’s Deli? Unthinkable! Knowing your customer, your brand heritage, and your cultural setting matters. 

Standing out in today’s saturated market is no small feat. Throughout the episode, Justine emphasizes that one of the biggest challenges in marketing is figuring out how to stand out amongst the “sea of sameness.” This seems to be a growing concern in the marketing industry, as she is the second person on the podcast to bring up the ‘sea of sameness’ this year. With consumers overwhelmed by a constant stream of content, brands can no longer afford to play it safe. Differentiation requires bold, strategic choices and the willingness to experiment, particularly in competitive spaces like the restaurant industry.

One of the ways marketers can break free from the sea of sameness is by using the market data as a suggestion and letting it guide the creative team. While attribution is critical in today’s marketing environment, Justine says that it can’t come at the cost of creativity. She specifically calls out advertising as a space where being overly dependent on metrics can lead to forgettable campaigns. The result? Campaigns that blend in, rather than break through. To stand out, you have to start spending less time on the attribution and more on creativity.

Tune into Justine’s episode to hear more about how you can harness your team's creative success with just a side of marketing attribution.  

Guest-at-a-Glance

💡 Name: Justine Fisher, Vice President of Marketing at bartaco

💡 Where to find Justine: LinkedIn

Key Insights:

The Sea of Sameness is Real

One of marketing’s biggest challenges right now is cutting through the noise. With ad content being pushed at consumers 24/7, standing out isn’t just a nice-to-have; it’s key to a company’s survival. According to Justine, it’s not just about being louder. It’s about being braver. And that bravery usually means taking a risk. 

Prioritize Relationships over Pitch Decks

If you’re trying to win over a VP like Justine, here’s your pro tip: drop the one-size-fits-all pitch deck. Justine says she’s much more likely to engage with someone who introduces themselves as a human first and expert second. Even if the timing isn’t right, that relationship might pay off later. 

Show Curiosity, Don’t Be Overconfident

In this week’s episode, Justine shares an experience with an agency that stood out to her in the best ways. This agency did their homework, stayed humble, and came in with curiosity. They didn’t pretend to know her company better than she did. Instead, they collaborated. That partnership worked because they listened first and added value later. Agencies that miss that listening part can come off as presumptuous. 

As a matter of fact, Robert worked with Toys “R” Us back in its heyday. He moved on to another opportunity before things took a turn for the worst, but he says in hindsight that he could see the end was near. The company was missing key trends in consumer spending that they could have taken seriously. But instead of shifting their strategy, they waited too long to adjust, and it proved to be to their detriment. 

Another trend to look out for is a change in copywriting strategies. Robert’s noticing that companies are pivoting from B2B copy to just P2P - People to People. That distance that we used to keep between each other is getting smaller and smaller. It’s much more effective to speak to the person rather than the role they play. That of course, doesn’t mean that every ad has to be a tear-jerker! But connecting with people on a human level goes a long way. 

Tune into Dimson’s episode to hear more about the current trends and strategies that you can use to stand out in 2025.   

Guest-at-a-Glance

💡 Name: Robert Dimson, Associate Vice President of Product Marketing at Cox Automotive, Inc.

💡 Where to find them: LinkedIn

Key Insights

Keep an Eye on Trends

Not every trend is here to stay, but when they are, it’s time to readjust your strategy. Toys “R” Us was a huge success back in its heyday, but because they were so big, they didn’t notice a major change in consumer spending until it was too late. Robert’s advice? Don’t be afraid to pivot. 

Officially People to People

There’s a shift in how companies are leveraging their copy, and you’re gonna want to pay attention to this. Companies are pivoting from B2B copy to just P2P - people to people. Next time you're working on a campaign, try writing to the person and not the business. You could make a better impression that way. 

Be Aggressive 

Marketers have been pumping the brakes for far too long. Trying to play it safe every time is creating a sea of sameness, because now everyone’s trying to play it safe. Push the envelope and put your trust in something fun and interesting. It’ll help you stand out with your customers. 

One hot take he has may shock you! He says that AI is overblown and not the savior all these ads are making it out to be. Or at least not yet. So whether you’re in an agency or with a brand, don’t get sucked into Shiny New Object Syndrome. It’s not worth it to put all your eggs in the AI basket just yet. Especially when so many companies are and are failing to keep up the same level of quality they used to have then they focused solely on their employees. If you want to get ahead, depend more on your people than you do on AI. 

One of the best strategies that still works to this day is affiliate marketing. Affiliate marketing is flexible and can be adapted to any platform or audience. For example, right now TikTok's affiliate marketing plan is incredible for ecommerce. Companies are making millions of dollars off of their TikTok affiliate strategies and it’s because people are using TikTok as a search engine. 

Tune into Wilhoit’s episode to hear more about how ecommerce is evolving and how you can keep up on the brand side and the agency side of things.  

Guest-at-a-Glance

💡 Name: T.R. Wilhoit

💡What they do: VP of ECommerce  at Case-Mate

💡 Where to find them: LinkedIn

Key Insights
AI is Overblown

How much can you really trust AI to do its job? It's a nice add-on, but it’s not replacing people any time soon. The best work often comes from companies that depend on their employees more than they depend on the next new AI program. Don’t get Shiny New Object Syndrome, it’s not always worth it. 

Agency Nightmares

When asked about the worst agency experience he had, Wilhiot said he had to call up his point of contact because they were raising fees without being attentive to his account. He knows how agencies work and he knows he’s not their only client. But it was becoming pretty obvious they were phoning it in and they had to work it out before they could move forward. 

Consumer Behavior Pre and Post-Election

We know that consumers tend not to spend too much during an election year. But now that the election has passed, consumers are not spending like we thought they would. This might be the start of a new trend in consumer behavior and it might be time we start adjusting our strategy to keep up with the changing times. 

Balance is a huge part of the job with both your internal team and your contracted team. Joe says that he appreciates when companies are upfront with their expectations during the pitching process. He prefers to know what is realistic before they start the project as opposed to finding out in the middle of it. Especially if it’s a budget issue.

But that doesn’t mean that he isn’t appreciative of risks. The biggest evolution that Joe has seen in consumer spending has been the changes to the delivery system. Restaurants were starting to build their own delivery system on their own websites rather than relying on the customer to always come to them. When COVID happened and delivery systems became a necessity, that nice-to-have tech became instrumental to a restaurant's success. Building your own delivery system rather than relying on in-person sales was a risk, but it proved itself at the end of the day. 

Tune into Joe’s episode to hear more about how restaurant marketing has evolved over the last decade and what you can do to keep up with the changes as a marketer.  

Guest-at-a-Glance

💡 Name: Joe Artime, VP of Marketing  

💡Company: Moe's Southwest Grill

💡 Where to find them: LinkedIn

Key Insights:

Do the Numbers Work 

Numbers and metrics are an important part of any marketing launch. But the right metrics are what put us over the edge. Keep track of the metrics your client actually wants you to measure. In the restaurant industry, Joe is looking for sales and traffic. No other metric are more important than sales and traffic metrics. 

Evolution Post COVID

When asked about the biggest change he’s seen in consumer behavior both pre- and post-COVID, Joe’s answer was all about delivery systems. What used to be a nice-to-have was now a necessity. These new systems are here to stay, so now it’s his job to learn how to work with them.

Agency vs Client Expectations

We all want the best relationship with our agencies - and that starts with setting realistic expectations. Whether it’s budgeting or scope of work, Joe says he has to find the right balance between two extremes to get the job done. Once that’s done, the real work can begin. 

Mark gets tons of agencies cold calling and reaching out to him asking for a meeting. Most of the time the answer is no. But if he can see some of that human element in their pitch, he’ll take the meeting. And that doesn’t mean, “Hey {first_name}, you’re not ranking first on Google.” If you’re going to pitch to a VP, you have to offer up some value. 

The two also talked about the common trend of marketers having to “do more with less.” Mark’s advice? Stop saying that. It’s true that marketing teams have become leaner. But that also means that your strategy has to be leaner too. If you’re a marketer, take some time to see if your new assignment is really necessary for this launch to do well. If not, bring it up to your team lead. Having a leaner team means trimming the fat on your list of things to do. 

Tune into Mark’s episode to hear more incredible marketing advice and how to know when you trust your gut.  

Guest-at-a-Glance

💡 Name: Mark Huber, VP of Marketing at UserEvidence

💡Noteworthy: Trust your gut more than you trust the data.  

💡 Where to find them: LinkedIn

Key Insights

Guts over Numbers 

This may be an unpopular opinion, but Mark doesn’t care about UTM parameters. Or web analytics in general! There are so many kinks that need to be buffed out that he can’t rely on them fully. He’d rather rely on a blend of trusting his gut and web analytics. But his gut always comes first. 

Don’t Waste My Time

When asked about cold calls with agencies and vendors, Mark says he’ll only have a meeting with them if they offer real value. They have to have audited his site or his strategy and really bring something tangible to the table. Otherwise, it’s just not worth it. 

Quality over Quantity

Instead of trying to get involved with every social media platform possible, Mark is focusing on just two channels - LinkedIn and email marketing. Now that he has the autonomy to hunker down and focus on fewer platforms, he’s been able to thrive. His work has been successful and he hasn't been spreading himself too thin. 

Having the skill to trust her gut has been such an asset to her and her team. For example, the data they collected is incredibly useful, but it would have made their campaign very basic. By looking at the data, she felt that consumers were very comfortable with the way that they’ve been marketed to when it comes to coffee. She didn’t want comfortable. Steph wanted to shake up the industry. So she trusted her gut and went in a completely new direction. Tell us what you think of Steph’s work when Casey’s coffee program launches!

Steph and I also talk about the differences in the marketing practices in the last five to ten years. It used to be that brands decided who they were and what they meant to the consumer. Now we’re finding that the other consumers' opinion of the brand has a much stronger hold on buying practices than it used to. Consumer influence is now a huge part of marketing and whether it’s from an established influencer or someone you know, it’s definitely shaking up the marketing industry. And while that means that some of our strategies aren’t useful anymore, we know that we can always go back to the basics. 

Steph has had a ton of experience with contractors and agencies over the years. She says that the most positive experiences were with people who knew how to be problem solvers. When contractors and agencies are as invested in your business as you are, they don’t come to you with more problems. They are invested, and therefore, they are invaluable. 

Tune into Steph’s episode to hear more about how she leads a midwest giant, like Casey’s and how you can partner with companies like hers in the future.

Guest-at-a-Glance

💡 Name: Steph Hoppe, Vice President Omnichannel Marketing  

💡Company: Casey's 

💡Noteworthy: People now own brands  

💡 Where to find them: LinkedIn

Key Insights

Get Scrappy

In this week’s episode, Steph tell us that the marketing industry is changing and that can mean needing to work with what you’ve got. When budgets are no longer unlimited, reusing the content you have on different platforms is a surefire way to get the most bang for your buck! 

It’s Me Or You

When asked about her worst agency experience Steph brought up the time and agency was more focused on winning an award than they were on doing the work they were hired for. This agency had great ideas, but it just wasn’t what they wanted at Casey’s. But this agency kept pushing. In the end they had to go their separate ways.

Authenticity Above All

When asked about her most positive agency experience, Steph brought up one agency that was as invested in their work with Casey’s as she was. And it’s not that they were completely perfect either. They made their fair share of mistakes. The difference was that they owned up to it and they were honest with her. That authenticity set that agency apart from the rest.

Now, we do have to address the elephant in the room - you can get pizza everywhere. You don’t always call up your favorite pizza place, sometimes you just order what’s nearby. So what do you do when you know pizza customers are notoriously inconsistent? Kimberly shares how she navigates such a fickle audience and how she strengthens brand loyalty among her customers. Papa Johns has amazing customer loyalty, it’s her job to make sure it stays that way. As well as attracting new customers with fun new menu items!

But, there is a limit to how much you can innovate before you’re just going off the rails. Kimberly loves to think outside the box, but there is a method to her madness. She loves gochujang, for example, but does it have a place in pizza? Along with thinking outside the box, you also have to stay true to your customers. It’s her job to figure out what they want and find a way to give it to them. 

This is also true about agencies! Kimberly and Daniel discuss her best and worst agency experiences. Her worst experiences involved agencies not doing what they were hired to do. They wanted to be flashy and innovative without prioritizing the consumer. All of the data they presented meant nothing to her because it wouldn’t work for their audience. Most of the time, clients tell you what they want, so do that before you start getting flashy. 

Check out this week’s episode to learn more about Kimberly Bean’s best and worst experiences in the marketing industry and how they have improved her work today. 

Guest-at-a-Glance

💡 Name: Kimberly Bean, VP of Integrated Marketing + Menu Strategy at Papa Johns 

💡 Where to find them: LinkedIn

Key Insights:

The Consumer is Always the Priority 

In this week’s episode, Kimberly shares how she prioritized her consumers at Papa Johns. She is not a shock-and-awe kind of marketer. For her, slow and steady is always the way to go. By focusing on the data and always thinking of the customer, she is able to create new and innovative menu items that her audience will love. 

Pizza is Promiscuous 

It’s pretty obvious that it can be hard to keep a pizza enthusiast's attention. You can get a decent slice of pizza anywhere. It’s Kimberly’s job to analyze the data and support menu items that will keep Papa Johns’s customers coming back for more. 

Is this thing on? 🎤

Kimberly’s work experiences with agencies usually involve them not listening to a thing she says and presenting something completely different to her team. Sure, their presentation was cool and interesting, but it wasn’t what her company needed, and now she has to take the fall for it. If you want to have a great relationship with your clients, do what they asked you to do the first time. Then you can think about innovating, as long as it aligns with their customers. 

One thing that stood out to her was how and why marketers are using the company’s budget. She shared an incredibly insightful story about a manager who asked a marketer if they would spend $100,000 of their own money on a project they pitched. He asked if they had analyzed the data and were absolutely sure that this was the best use of their funds. That question gave Jennifer a new perspective on her work and she considers it with every new project. 

When asked about her worst agency experience, Jennifer opened up about an issue she keeps running into with large agencies. They just keep getting in their own way. By valuing their internal processes over the client's needs, they delay the work that they were hired for in the first place. She’s even had to go through 30 days of an onboarding process that could have been done in a 2-hour Zoom call. To avoid getting in their own way, Jennifer says that agencies should remember why the client hired them and prioritize that. 

Cold calling has also changed significantly in the marketing industry. Nowadays, marketers tend to tune things out, especially if these calls are unsolicited or done in poor taste. They’ve even gone so far as to call three or four times in a row which makes her think it’s a family emergency! Her advice is to cut it out. It’s a terrible practice and ruins your chances of working with her.  

Check out this week’s episode to hear more of Jennifer Hopkins’s invaluable advice for this ever-changing industry. 

Guest-at-a-Glance

💡 Name: Jennifer Hopkins

💡What they do: SVP of Marketing at Sonar 

💡 Where to find them: LinkedIn

Key Insights

Growth Efficiency 

In this week’s episode, Jennifer shares an incredible story of perspective and efficiency. The question, “What would you do if we’re your money,” has influenced her work ever since she’s heard it. As a result, she’s rejected the idea of growth at all costs and prioritized proposals that are best backed up by data. 

No BS

One of the best things an agency can do for her is cut the BS. One agency she hired quickly aligned with her North Star metric and called themselves out when they didn’t make it. That kind of honesty, as well as a plan to better their results, established a level of trust that Jennifer really appreciated. 

Prioritizing North Star Metrics 

The best agencies are the ones that focus on what the clients want, not fluff metrics. Jennifer’s best experiences have been with agencies who prioritized the North Star metrics and delivered what she needed. It sounds simple but not every agency is as authentic as they claim to be. 

Nicolle emphasizes the value of returning to simple, feel-good marketing tactics that truly resonate with customers. She believes that, despite the rapid advancements in technology, the basics of marketing still hold immense value. Daniel shared that the best marketing leaders he’d worked with excel by making sure that their marketing strategies are always customer-focused. Together, Nicolle and Daniel explore how listening to customers can lead to some of the most effective and authentic marketing practices.

When asked about her worst agency experience, she opens up about a challenging experience with an agency that initially seemed promising but quickly ran into undeniable communication issues. She emphasizes that open and honest discussions about project scopes are essential to a successful relationship. 

They also talk about the ever evolving role of technology and automation programs in marketing. Nicolle talks about her experience with the benefits and potential drawbacks of these tools. While they can enhance efficiency, she worries about losing the personal touch that makes effective marketing so impactful. She found that her best practices always came from leaning on her very capable team. Nicolle shares how much she has learned from her young team and how their fresh and innovative approaches teach her how to see things from new perspectives. 

Check out this week’s episode to hear more about Nicolle DuBose’s dos and don’ts for maintaining amazing relationships with agencies and how to prioritize your amazing team over the shiny new industry toy.

Guest-at-a-Glance

💡 Name: Nicolle DuBose, Chief Marketing Officer at Playa Bowls

💡Noteworthy: When in doubt, listen to your customer. 

💡 Where to find Nicolle: LinkedIn

Key Insights

Evolving Scope of Work

On this week’s episode, Nicolle shares a positive experience she’s had with an agency. She emphasizes that the best part about working with this agency was their  fluid and realistic scope discussions. She advocates for a rational and flexible approach to evolving project scopes, which would also ensure that agencies are fairly compensated for their time and intellectual property.

Human Connection 

When asked for her best piece of marketing advice, Nicolle encouraged marketers to stay true to themselves and not get distracted by every new industry trend. Automations and AI should not be your priority. Look to your team for that undeniable passion for the job and mastery for the fundamentals. She believes that leaning on her team and learning from the industry without losing the human touch are the keys to success.

Thoughts on Consumer Behavior

Nicolle’s favorite college class on consumer behavior and she still finds ways to use what she’s learned in her work to this day. She stresses that understanding consumer behavior is critical. 

Jessica hired an agency to build a whole new website for her company, and when they ignored their own mistakes, they expected her to pay for it! Nowadays, Jessica has had more experience asking her colleagues for recommendations when it comes to hiring an agency. And every single time she asks, there’s always someone willing to hop on a call and give their review. Her message, which Daniel co-signed, to all agencies is that your relationships with your clients are as important as your work. And this week we’re diving into how to maintain those relationships and how not to.  

The two also talked about how to get ahead in the marketing industry. Jessica shares that she believes that getting back to marketing basics will cut through the noise. There is so much newness in the marketing world, new platforms and tools, that makes the industry too saturated. Going back to the fundamentals of marketing will give your team a tried and true strategy to speak directly with your customers. 

Jessica also believes that now is the perfect time to hire an amazing team. Her team of three has grown to a team of ten, with the help of her good friend Daniel Weiner and YouShouldTalkTo. With our help, Jessica has been able to meet some incredible people. She advises CMOs to bet on people over tactics, that’s where you’ll see the most results. 

Check out this week’s episode to hear more about Jessica Garrett’s dos and don’ts for maintaining amazing relationships with agencies and how to build the best team possible.

Guest-at-a-Glance

💡 Name: Jessica Garrett

💡What they do: Chief Marketing Officer

💡Company: Zone & Co.

💡Noteworthy: You don’t bet on tactics anymore. You bet on people.

💡 Where to find them: LinkedIn

Key Insights

Don’t listen to Hubspot “Partners”

Jessica Garrett, Chief Marketing Officer for Zone & Co., shares that the best advice she ever got was in person. Not every LinkedIn and Hubspot expert is actually an expert. Did you know that you can pay to be considered a top-tier Hubspot partner? Sometimes the answer you’re looking for lies within the person sitting next to you in a conference. 

Bet on Your People

It’s not all about algorithms and strategy. Sometimes the best work comes from your best people. Jessica Garrett says it’s the perfect time to hire an amazing team, especially if you’re taking recommendations from YouShouldTalkTo. 

The Dos and Don’ts of Relationships 

If your agency makes a mistake, don’t make your clients pay for it. Try to make the relationship as easygoing as possible. And we don’t mean the minor things. We mean taking two months to ignore our emails and then charging the client to clean up your mess. 

Kim assures us that these turbulent times are manageable. She encourages marketers to keep their consumers at the heart of everything they do and that focusing on the consumer is the most important business strategy in any climate. Daniel agrees that sometimes marketers focus too much on what they want rather than on what the consumer wants. 

When asked about her feelings about remote work versus in-person work, Kim recalls a time when she was working remotely with an agency during COVID-19. She said that she preferred working in person with an agency because she feels that there is something special about having a group of creative people come together. An in-person work setting also allowed agencies to retain talent for longer periods of time.

While a TikTok ban remains a hot topic, Kim does not see the app going anywhere anytime soon. While it looks like legislation will be pushed through, she believes that TikTok will find a way to stay connected to its users in the US. 

Check out this week’s episode to hear more about how agencies can be more collaborative with their clients and how to be ready for anything in 2024. 

Guest-at-a-Glance

💡 Name: Kim Morales, Senior Director of Brand Marketing at Miller's Ale House

💡 Where to find them: LinkedIn

Key Insights

The Great Equalizer:

Kim and Daniel discuss talent retention at agencies and how Covid has become the great equalizer. Before Covid, talent flocked to big cities like New York and LA to find work. Now that remote work has become more normalized, talent has dispersed and people are finding work all over the country.

Making Connections:

With Daniel’s help, Kim was able to connect with agencies and contractors and make the right hires for MAH. The process was streamlined and personable and she enjoyed getting to collaborate with Daniel’s recommendations on some very important projects. 

Not Excited About AI 

Kim is not AS excited about AI as some. While she does find it to be a very helpful resource, she is more excited about marketers finding the intersection of brand and culture and using it to develop culturally relevant campaigns. Keeping up with the times can be very difficult but staying culturally relevant is a very unique way that restaurants can connect with their consumers. 

Their conversation kicks off with Rachel's observation about the shift in marketing strategies companies need to make to reach younger generations. She advocates for more sincerity and storytelling in content to address fatigue from constant sales pitches. Rachel emphasizes the importance of adapting to meet the evolving needs of consumers, especially in a world saturated with marketing messages.

Daniel chimes in with a hilarious anecdote about AT&T's mishandling of a service outage, which highlights the need for authenticity and transparency in brand messaging. Rachel agrees and stresses the importance of follow-through after issuing apologies or promises to customers. Customers want to be seen and heard - so explaining how this outage happened, how they’re going to fix it, and how it’s never going to happen again, is crucial to earning your customers' trust. 

Rachel also offers advice to agencies and vendors seeking to collaborate with marketing leaders like herself. She stresses the importance of building genuine connections and avoiding overly aggressive sales tactics. Rachel encourages a more thoughtful and empathetic approach to outreach, highlighting the value of respectful communication. For example, having a mutual colleague tee up a conversation is much better than cold pitching your product to strangers on LinkedIn. 

Check out this week’s episode to hear more about Rachel Smith’s strategies for creating meaningful connections and fostering creativity in the marketing industry.

Guest-at-a-Glance

💡 Name: Rachel Smith, VP of Marketing at Sky Zone

💡 Where to find them: LinkedIn

Key Insights:

They Called My Baby Ugly 

Rachel Smith, VP of Marketing for Sky Zone, shares a pet peeve she has working in the marketing industry. It's those messages saying, “I looked at your website performance and I can improve it by doing X, Y, and Z. Calling her website, her baby, “ugly” is a sure-fire way to ensure you never get a message back

Don’t Take It Personally 

Not aligning on a project the first time around is not a big deal. In fact, it can make you and the client closer as you get a clearer picture of what they actually want. As long as you are gracious and you don’t take it personally, this moment will just be a bump in a very long road ahead. 

The Ethics of AI

Rachel Smith, VP of Marketing at Sky Zone, expressed her excitement for AI in the marketing industry. She and her team are finding a comfortable balance between ethics and efficiency so that everyone is satisfied. 

Marketing has changed drastically in this post Covid world and one of the things Brandy noticed is that people are aging into their social media platforms. Boomers and Gen Xers are on Facebook. You can’t even find a 20-something-year-old on Facebook. And 20 somethings and younger are on TikTok. Knowing where your audience is on social media will be a game changer in the next few years. 

Brandy also predicts that the next six months are going to be a little difficult economically, so you need to be able to be patient. Focus on those key business drivers and do what works for you rather than whatever everyone else is doing. Right now is the time to really personalize your strategy and make sure that what you’re doing is what’s best for your company and your franchisees. 

There’s the right way to give gifts and there’s the wrong way to give gifts. Brandy says that she will accept reasonable gifts if she doesn’t know they’re coming in the mail. But super grandiose gifts from people she’s never spoken to, or spoken to once or twice, is a big red flag. Especially when the sales people start to expect something because of the gift. 

This episode is full of great strategic advice for anyone looking to fine tune up their marketing strategy in 2024. 

Guest-at-a-Glance

💡 Name: Brandy Blackwell, VP of Marketing at Another Broken Egg Cafe

💡 Where to find them: LinkedIn

Key Insights:

Push and Pull

Brandy Blackwell, VP of Marketing for the Another Broken Egg Cafe, says that she needs a bit of pushing pull from her SMEs to execute the best marketing strategy she can. If you have ideas, she wants to hear them now, not after the fact. 

“Are we in a Recession?” 

When asked what keeps her up at night, Brandy said the state of the economy for the next six months. There are signs that the next few months are going to be a bit rough. But if your strategy is personalized for your company and you’re not chasing trends, you’ll be alright.

Overwhelmed with Tech Options

There are so many new programs and software out there that it’s hard to keep track! It’s overwhelming to figure out if you should switch out your program for a new one and if the cost of the switch is worth it. At the end of the day you have to keep an eye on the money and make a strategic decision. 

Erin says that one of her favorite things about marketing is that it can be incredibly algorithmic. She can take a look at the data and know what she needs to do based on their findings. If the audience does this, she’ll do that. And she finds that she can be more creative with this mathematical thinking.  

As the leader of her department, she shares that the best thing that you can do is be prepared to be spontaneous. She will always value her plans, but she knows that life can be unexpected and affect her work very quickly. So she has learned to be flexible. That way she can keep a level head and pivot her team towards the next best plan of action.

Erin also talks about the interpersonal relationship skills that you need when cold pitching and working with agencies. More than once she has received emails with the wrong names, rude attitudes, and even gift cards from people trying to bribe her into a meeting with them! None of these tactics, according to her, are going to get you a meeting with anyone. If you’re looking to call or meet with a CMO, consider the basics. Start with knowing their full name and how you can be of value to them. 

This episode offers great advice for CMOs, employees, and agency owners who are looking to polish off their networking techniques and make better connections. 

Guest-at-a-Glance

💡 Name: Erin Levzow, CMO at Museum of Ice Cream

💡Noteworthy: Have a plan, but be prepared to be spontaneous. 

💡 Where to find them: LinkedIn

Key Insights

Math in Marketing Encourages Creativity

Erin Levzow, CMO of the Museum of Ice Cream, explains why she thinks that an algorithmic approach can encourage more focused creativity. She knows that it sounds like the opposite is true - but she has found that once you start to put parameters around an idea, you are more likely to create something innovative and new. She has seen people innovate at a higher rate, test faster, and produce amazing results. 

It’s Going to Go to Sh*t

In response to a question asking how to survive as well as thrive in 2024 as a CMO, Erin answered, prepared to be spontaneous. Always have a plan, always know where you’re going, but be prepared for that plan to go to shit. And it could be for a number of factors: a recession, layoffs, a political year, advertising space - any number of things that are out of your control. Be prepared to be flexible.

Please Don’t be Rude

If we’re talking about cold pitching, Erin has seen it all. People have tried every single way to get her attention. Whether that means being rude in their emails, questioning her budget, or even bribing her with $10 gift cards if she would just take a meeting with them. Not only will this not get you hired, but it will kill your chances of working with her and her company in the future. 

Customers want to know what a brand stands for and if they can align with their values. 100 Coconuts, for example, prides itself on authenticity and sustainability. While that would usually live within the company’s mission statement, marketers are now making that information readily available to their customers because their customers are looking for information. Customers will then buy from 100 Coconuts knowing that they are a sustainable brand and they themselves align with sustainability. 

Monica also talks about the responsibilities that brands should take when an agency fails to complete a project. There are many reasons that a brand could have sabotaged an agency's work. Things like clear briefs, timelines, and budgets are on the brand to avoid overwhelming agencies. 

It’s also important to reward the vendors that invest in you. Monica tells us the story about how she was auditing her company's vendor list and increased the rates of the vendors who did consistently good work. And she raised their rates without asking them. Monica says it’s important to invest in your vendors because they invest in you too. 

This episode offers great insights into the current cultural shift in the marketing industry and agency dynamics. 

Guest-at-a-Glance

💡 Name: Monica Fleury, CMO at 100 Coconuts

💡Noteworthy: She believes in investing in your agencies and your vendors. The more you invest in them the more they invest in you. 

💡 Where to find them: LinkedIn

Key Insights:

Customers Care About What You Care About

Monica Fleury, CMO of 100 Coconuts, tells us how the industry is changing for both marketers and consumers. The mission statement used to be exclusively for internal use. Now customers want to know what you stand for and what you believe in. So now the mission statement is public and customers align themselves with you if you align with any shared values - like sustainability, for example. 

Unrealistic Expectations 

Monica believes that the unrealistic expectations of brands can traumatize agencies. She says there are good agencies out there, but you can’t expect too much from them when you’re overwhelming them with work and expecting the best results. Things like timelines, budgets, and clear briefs are the responsibility of the brand. 

Authenticity and AI

Monica talks about how she’s been grappling with the idea of using AI in marketing. Her current company’s mission is all about authenticity, and she feels as if AI goes against that mission. So, she’s removed AI from her marketing strategy. It may be more work, but she believes that her customers will appreciate the effort. 

While it was a traumatizing experience, Jenkins says that the event pointed out specific red flags within the agency that she can look for in the future. Because of the previous agency’s failure, she was recommended a much better fit for the project. The newer agency had much better communication skills and she was able to connect with the team on a human level, rather than the cold, reserved communication she was getting from the previous agency. Jenkins says that the more human approach translates well in start-up spaces while making the client jump through hoops to communicate their needs does not. 

Kacie also recognizes how much pressure can be put on herself and her team. Working in the marketing industry can feel like a bunch of adrenaline rushes, which is very exciting. But it’s also important that everyone on the team has a chance to recharge their batteries. She talks about how she monitors her team to ensure no one burns out. Which can include spa days and gifting! 

Kacie is looking forward to the marketing industry as a whole focusing on a more personal connection with their customers. She wants to see more creativity and risk-taking, rather than focusing on meeting short-term goals as fast as possible. Jenkins believes that AI will help companies make more personal connections and that Sendoso is working in the right direction.

This episode is a must-listen for anyone interested in the more human side of being an SVP in Marketing, and what it takes to be a leader in the startup world.  

Guest-at-a-Glance
💡 Name: Kacie Jenkins, SVP Marketing at Sendoso

💡Noteworthy: Kacie emphasized the importance of self-care within your leadership strategy and making sure no one on your team burns out. 

💡 Where to find them: LinkedIn

Key Insights

MIA: Hired Agency Goes Missing When Website Crashes

Kacie Jenkins, SVP of Marketing at Sendoso, tells us how everything went wrong during a product launch as she recounts a negative agency experience. In hindsight, she could recall some red flags that she thought could be a problem down the line. However, she never expected the agency’s entire team to go missing when they caused a website crash in the middle of a launch. It took hours for Kacie to communicate with someone on the team, and even then it was clear they were way in over their heads.

Embracing the Shift Toward Human-Centric Marketing

Kacie says she’s excited for the resurgence of personalized marketing. She mentioned that marketers want to shift towards more personal, thoughtful, and useful approaches. The two emphasize the shifting focus toward creating meaningful connections with their audiences. She’s also looking forward to seeing brands embracing creativity and experimentation, and moving away from a strict focus on short-term goals. 

Helen passionately shares her belief in the importance of product marketing. She argues that a strong product marketing foundation is essential for any marketing endeavor to succeed. Without understanding the target audience, their problems, and how a solution addresses those problems, other marketing strategies risk falling flat.

The conversation takes a light-hearted turn as they discuss the challenges of defining White Cup's messaging and the humorous moments they shared during the podcast recording. Through it all, the episode offers valuable insights into the marketing landscape and the role of CRM in it.

Guest-at-a-Glance

💡 Guest: Helen Piña, VP of Marketing at White Cup

💡Noteworthy: Helen Piña, VP of Marketing at White Cup, specializes in distributor-tailored CRM solutions.

💡Where to find Helen: LinkedIn 

Key Insights:

The Power of Product Marketing:

Helen Piña underscores the pivotal role of product marketing in any business venture. She passionately believes that without a solid foundation in product marketing, other marketing strategies are bound to falter. Helen emphasizes that understanding the target audience, their challenges, and how a solution addresses those challenges is paramount. Without this understanding, even the most sophisticated digital marketing or demand generation campaigns might not hit the mark. In essence, product marketing lays the groundwork for all other marketing endeavors, ensuring they resonate with the intended audience.

White Cup's Unique CRM Offering:

White Cup stands out in the crowded CRM market by offering solutions tailored specifically for distributors. Helen highlights that while there are numerous generic CRM options available, distributors have unique needs that require specialized solutions. White Cup's CRM not only addresses these specific needs but also empowers distributors with tools to harness their data effectively, driving revenue and ensuring business growth.

The Challenges of Messaging:

During the episode, there's a candid moment where Helen grapples with succinctly defining White Cup's messaging. This moment underscores a broader challenge many companies face: crafting a clear, compelling message that resonates with the target audience. Helen's candidness offers a relatable glimpse into the intricacies of marketing communication and the importance of getting it right.

Jami emphasizes the importance of prioritizing needs when seeking partnerships and offers insights into the evolving landscape of agencies. She believes that while agencies are abundant, finding the right fit is crucial for brands. 

Jami also dives into her role at Surcheros, a growing brand with a unique niche in college towns. She discusses the shift from Quick Service Restaurants (QSR) to the rise of fast-casual dining, emphasizing the value of customization in the latter.

As they navigate the challenges of marketing in a tight-budget environment, Jami underscores the significance of conversion media and the need for agencies that recognize the value of every dollar.

Guest-at-a-Glance
💡 Guest: Jami Horowitz, VP of Marketing at Surcheros

💡Noteworthy: Jami Horowitz: 15+ years in food industry, heavily focused on QSR evolution.

💡Where to find Jami: LinkedIn 

Key Insights

The Value of Agency Experience:

Jami Horowitz believes that every brand marketer, regardless of their industry, should start their career at an agency. Being thrown into the deep end at an agency allows individuals to learn every part of the business, understand the intricacies of agency operations, and become better brand partners. This experience equips them to discern when to challenge agencies and ensures effective collaboration.

Relationships Over Tools:

Jami emphasizes the significance of relationships in the agency world. While many agencies might offer similar services and access to the same platforms, what differentiates one from another is the people and the relationships they foster. She believes that people buy people, not just services or access to tools. Building and maintaining strong relationships is paramount for successful collaborations.

Earning the Right to Innovate:

In the realm of marketing, Jami underscores the importance of proving return on investment (ROI) before venturing into more creative and experimental strategies. By demonstrating consistent ROI, marketers earn the trust of their stakeholders, which then grants them the freedom to explore innovative approaches and "have a little bit of fun" with their campaigns.

The conversation shifts gears to the often-dreaded RFP process. Both agree it's broken. Berris offers a no-nonsense approach: no decision-maker in the room, no proposal. It's that simple. He argues for a process that values meaningful questions over price tags.

Lastly, they delve into the complexities of navigating a regulated industry like payments. Berris shares his ongoing journey to validate new ideas in a space where MVPs are a no-go. The episode wraps with insights that challenge conventional wisdom, making it a must-listen for anyone looking to shake up their business strategy.

Guest-at-a-Glance

💡 Name: Robert Berris, Chief Innovation Officer at Brightwell

💡Noteworthy: Expert in innovation, emphasizes client collaboration and challenges conventional RFP processes.

💡 Where to find them: LinkedIn

Key Insights:

Standing Out in a Saturated Market:

Robert emphasizes the need for agencies to differentiate themselves by showcasing the value they've created for clients. He criticizes the repetitive pitches that focus on buzzwords like "human-centered" and "strategic," stating that agencies should instead highlight their unique contributions to client success.

Measuring Innovation:

When it comes to innovation, Robert advises focusing on what you intend to learn and why. He introduces the concept of a "learning agenda," which includes knowns, unknowns, assumptions, and hypotheses. This structured approach helps in validating key unknowns and can be a game-changer in any industry.

Rethinking the RFP Process:

Robert calls out the flaws in the traditional RFP (Request for Proposal) process, stating that it often dehumanizes the interaction between agencies and brands. He argues for a more collaborative approach, where both parties can ask meaningful questions and understand each other's thinking.

Matt shares insights from his professional journey, touching on the importance of taking pride in one's work. He recalls his days as a golf caddy and lawn mower, drawing parallels to the satisfaction he feels in executing a well-crafted marketing campaign. The conversation underscores the value of dedication and precision in any endeavor.

Wrapping up, the duo delves into the challenges and objectives that keep Matt on his toes. Sales, app downloads, and customer engagement top his list. The episode serves as a testament to the power of clear vision and unwavering commitment in the marketing realm.

Guest-at-a-Glance

💡 Name: Matt Kobach, VP of Marketing at Slice

💡 Noteworthy: From PhD candidate to social media expert, Matt pioneered marketing strategies, even becoming the NYSE Snapchat guy.

💡 Where to find Matt: LinkedIn and Twitter

Key Insights
The Power of Understanding 'Why' in Marketing:

Matt Kobach emphasizes the importance of understanding the 'why' behind marketing decisions. He believes that knowing the reasons behind actions leads to more effective content creation and marketing strategies. Without this understanding, marketing can become a mere color-by-numbers exercise, lacking depth and effectiveness.

Sales Drive Marketing Objectives:

For Matt, the primary concern that keeps him up at night is sales. He stresses the importance of seeing consistent growth in various metrics, such as the number of shops onboarded, orders per shop, and app downloads. Matt believes that marketers should align their objectives with tangible business outcomes, focusing on metrics that directly impact sales and customer engagement.

Passion Makes the Difference:

Matt wants team members who are genuinely passionate about Slice. He believes that this passion is crucial for the platform's success, as it directly impacts local, independent shops. Matt's favorite pitch came from someone who not only downloaded the Slice app but also approached a local pizza place to inquire why they weren't on the platform. This level of initiative and genuine interest stands out and makes a significant difference.

Jason emphasizes the pitfalls of the "me too" approach in marketing. He believes that to truly resonate, brands need to be in tune with the unique needs and desires of their audience. It's not just about following trends but about forging genuine connections.

In a world where consumer sentiment shifts rapidly, staying plugged in is more crucial than ever. Jason's insights offer a fresh perspective on how brands can navigate these changes and build lasting relationships with their customers.

Guest-at-a-Glance
💡 Name: Jason Moskal

💡 What he does: SVP of Marketing at Randstad

💡Noteworthy: Jason has a mosaic background spanning beer, banking, hotels, automotive, and staffing, emphasizing diverse industry experience.

💡Where to find Jason: LinkedIn

Key Insights

The Shift in Agency Preference:

Jason Moskal discusses the noticeable shift in brands gravitating towards smaller, specialized agencies post-COVID. He emphasizes the importance of smart agencies, regardless of their size. Jason believes that agencies should prioritize partnerships and avoid merely chasing trends or awards. The focus should always be on delivering value and building a genuine connection with clients.

The Essence of Listening to Customers:

Jason underscores the importance of brands staying in touch with their target audience, especially in the wake of the pandemic. He warns against overcomplicating marketing strategies and stresses the significance of direct communication with customers. By continually listening and understanding their needs, brands can offer unique perspectives and stand out from competitors.

The Challenge of Rapidly Changing Consumer Mindsets:

Jason highlights the challenge of keeping up with the ever-evolving consumer mindset. In the past, insights from focus groups would be considered gospel for a while. Now, consumer opinions and preferences change almost instantly. The rapid pace of change keeps marketers on their toes, pushing them to discern between lasting insights and fleeting trends. The key is to stay ahead and ensure that marketing strategies align with genuine consumer needs.

Jeff, however, cautions against the idea of a truly full-service agency. He argues that the complexity of marketing makes this an unrealistic expectation. It's a candid take that challenges conventional thinking in the industry.

The conversation takes a sharp turn as Jeff expresses a bold view on marketing automation software tools. He asserts that these tools are ineffective without the right team to operate them. It's a reminder that technology is only as good as the people behind it. This episode is a must-listen for anyone seeking a fresh perspective on the dynamics of marketing.

Guest-at-a-Glance:
💡 Name: Jeff Perkins, CMO at Greenlight Guru

💡Noteworthy: Jeff is a published author -- check out his book here. 

💡 Where to find more from Jeff: LinkedIn

Key Insights:

Specialized Agencies: A Double-Edged Sword

Jeff Perkins, CMO of Greenlight Guru, discusses the role of specialized agencies in marketing. He suggests that while these agencies are excellent at specific tasks, they can also be given a chance to work on diverse projects. However, Perkins cautions against the idea of a truly full-service agency. He argues that the complexity of marketing makes this an unrealistic expectation. It's a candid take that challenges conventional thinking in the industry.

Marketing Automation Tools: Misunderstood Assets

Jeff expresses a bold view on marketing automation software tools. He asserts that these tools are ineffective without the right team to operate them. It's a reminder that technology is only as good as the people behind it. This insight is particularly valuable for businesses that heavily rely on automation tools, urging them to invest in their teams as much as they do in their technology.

AI: The Future of Marketing

Jeff shares his excitement about the potential impact of AI on marketing. He believes that AI can turbocharge marketing efforts and doesn't see it as a threat to jobs. Instead, he views AI as a tool that can enhance the work of marketers, from brainstorming to defining target audiences to drafting blog posts. This perspective offers a positive outlook on the integration of AI in the marketing industry.

The conversation takes a deep dive into the current economic climate and its impact on consumer spending. Tom argues that consumers are still spending, but brands must drive relevance and make people feel good to attract their dollars. He also discusses the concept of the "lipstick index" and how consumers still seek self-care during recessions.

Towards the end, Tom discusses the importance of team well-being and the role of culture in an organization. He also expresses his excitement about the shift back to brand building in marketing and the potential of artificial intelligence.

Guest-at-a-Glance

💡 Name: Tom Spaven, VP of Marketing at goodwipes

💡Noteworthy: Tom brings a fresh perspective on marketing, emphasizing the human element and the importance of brand building.

💡 Where to find Tom: LinkedIn

Key Insights

The Human Touch: Personalization in Outreach

Tom emphasizes the importance of personalization in outreach. He suggests that everyone wants to feel special and heard, and it's crucial to inject a level of personalization into your communication. However, the sheer volume of communication can be overwhelming, and it's easy to miss opportunities. He suggests that successful outreach requires an element of humility, humor, and the luck of catching someone on the right channel at the right time.

Consumer Spending and The Lipstick Index

Tom discusses the concept of the "lipstick index" - the idea that even in a recession, consumers still want to treat themselves, albeit in more affordable ways. He argues that consumers are still spending, but brands need to drive relevance and make people feel good to attract their dollars. This puts more pressure on brands to be relevant in a target occasion and meet consumer needs.

The Pendulum Swings Back: The Return to Brand Building

Tom expresses his excitement about the shift back to brand building in marketing. He believes that the pendulum is swinging back from performance-focused strategies to a more holistic approach that includes long-term brand building. He argues that every opportunity is a chance to build a brand and to perform, and marketers should think about their strategies holistically.

Kaylin also delves into the importance of agency partnerships in marketing. She talks about the balance between relationship-building and delivering quality work. Kaylin stresses that brands must invest time in providing agencies with the context they need to excel and the importance of cutting ties early when partnerships aren't working.

Lastly, Kaylin shares a bit about her personal life, including her first job mucking stalls at a horse farm. She believes this early work experience instilled in her a strong work ethic and the understanding that no one is above a dirty job. This episode is a deep dive into the mind of a seasoned marketer, offering valuable insights for anyone in the industry.

Guest-at-a-Glance

💡 Name: Kaylin Durham Chief Marketing & Digital Officer at Aaron's and BrandsMart USA

💡Noteworthy: From working in an agency to leading marketing for two major brands, Kaylin has gained experience that helps her recognize and nurture high-quality client-agency relationships, and why these partnerships are important. 

💡 Where to find Kaylin: LinkedIn

Key Insights

The Rising Bar: Consumer Expectations in the Digital Age

Kaylin discusses the significant shift in consumer behavior over the years. She notes that shoppers' expectations have increased substantially, with consumers now expecting more curated and personalized experiences from brands. This shift is driven by the vast amount of information and content available at consumers' fingertips. As a result, brands are now held more accountable for creating personalized experiences that resonate with their customers. This insight highlights the importance of understanding and adapting to evolving consumer expectations in the digital age.

The Marketing Conundrum: Achieving More with Less

Kaylin shares one of the critical challenges keeping her up at night: doing more with less. She notes that the days of large marketing budgets are over, and marketers are now expected to be good stewards of the funds they're given. This means leveraging the talents and resources available to make the maximum impact for customers. She also emphasizes the importance of being customer-centric and making strategic decisions based on the brand's position in the marketplace.

Agency Partnerships: Balancing Relationships and Quality Work

Kaylin delves into the importance of agency partnerships in marketing. She emphasizes the need for brands to invest time in providing agencies with the context they need to excel. However, she also stresses the importance of cutting ties early when partnerships aren't working. This insight underscores the delicate balance between building relationships with agencies and ensuring they deliver quality work.

As the conversation progresses, Tara articulates her excitement about the rising influence of artificial intelligence (AI) in marketing. She contends that ignoring the growing impact of AI could be detrimental, urging marketers to stay ahead of the curve. The discussion also touches on the potential of AI to facilitate a more strategic approach in marketing.

On a personal note, Tara expresses her concerns about the current economic climate and the increasing layoffs. She emphasizes the need for building a more diverse workforce, advocating for more opportunities for diversity, equity, and inclusion in marketing.

Guest-at-a-Glance

💡 Name: Tara Robertson, Chief Marketing Officer at Bitly

💡Noteworthy: A dynamic marketer with a keen focus on data-driven decisions and diversity in the industry.

💡 Where to find them: LinkedIn

Key Insights:

The importance of data in marketing decision-making. During this episode, Tara Robertson emphasized the critical role of data in marketing decisions. She highlighted that relying on intuition without data backing often leads to costly mistakes. By harnessing data, marketers can validate their hunches, and improve the effectiveness of their campaigns. The conversation highlighted a real-world example of how Tara's team saved $50,000 by opting for a data-driven approach over a traditional customer research project. This insight reinforces the idea that data is an invaluable asset for any marketing team.

The necessity of firing clients who don't fit. One of the intriguing topics brought up during the episode was the concept of firing clients. Both Tara Robertson and Daniel Weiner agreed that it's important to terminate relationships with clients who hinder an agency's ability to deliver results. They mentioned that while this might initially lead to difficult situations like layoffs, in the long run, working with the right clients ensures the agency's growth and its employees' job satisfaction. This insight drives home the point that client-agency compatibility is crucial for mutual success.

The potential of artificial intelligence (AI) in marketing. AI's impact on marketing was a key theme in this conversation. Tara stated that ignoring AI's advancements in the current era is not an option for marketers. AI is not only accelerating the pace of progress in the field but is also allowing marketers to focus more on strategy than execution. The discussion emphasized that understanding and leveraging AI can lead to innovative strategies, thereby keeping businesses ahead of the curve in an increasingly competitive market.

The conversation delves into the unique challenges faced by digital marketing agencies and how Jamie has tackled them head-on, making tough decisions and embracing change for the betterment of her company. Jamie also reflects on the role of data in driving business decisions and how maintaining a strong focus on performance has contributed to Keyfactor's growth.

In addition to discussing the business side of things, Jamie offers personal insights into her sources of inspiration, mentioning Serena Williams and former IBM CEO Ginni Rometty as two powerful women who have shaped her own approach to leadership. This episode provides an engaging look into the inner workings of a successful digital marketing agency and offers valuable insights for aspiring entrepreneurs and industry professionals alike.

Guest-at-a-Glance

💡 Name: Jamie Walker, EVP Marketing at Keyfactor

💡 Where to find Jamie: LinkedIn

Key Insights:
The Importance of Trust in Digital Marketing. Jamie Walker, CEO of Keyfactor, emphasizes the critical role trust plays in digital marketing. As consumers become more data-conscious, it's essential for agencies to establish and maintain trust with their clients. Transparency in data collection and use, honest communication, and ethical practices are all key factors in building a trustworthy reputation. By focusing on trust, digital marketing agencies can not only protect their clients' interests but also forge long-lasting, productive relationships.

Navigating the Transition from Traditional to Digital Marketing. Daniel Weiner and Jamie Walker discuss the challenges faced by businesses and agencies in transitioning from traditional to digital marketing. They explore how both clients and agencies need to adapt their strategies, skills, and mindset to succeed in this new landscape. By learning from experiences and embracing change, companies can find innovative ways to reach their target audience and deliver more effective marketing campaigns.

The Balance Between Specialization and Full-Service Offerings. In the episode, Jamie Walker shares her thoughts on the balance between specialization and full-service offerings in digital marketing. She argues that agencies should focus on what they do best and not attempt to be all things to all clients. This approach allows agencies to excel in their areas of expertise and provide the highest quality service to their clients. By understanding their strengths and limitations, agencies can build strong partnerships and deliver better results in the ever-changing digital marketing landscape.

In this episode of the YouShouldTalkTo podcast, our host Daniel Weiner welcomes Bryan Law, the chief marketing officer of ZoomInfo. They talk about what it takes to create a strong partnership, how both parties can work together on making a client-agency relationship work, and the importance of being receptive to feedback in these partnerships.

Guest-at-a-Glance

💡 Name: Bryan Law, Chief Marketing Officer of ZoomInfo

💡 Noteworthy: Bryan has over 20 years of experience in marketing, general management, strategy, e-commerce, and analytics. He has held leadership roles at ZoomInfo, Salesforce, Google, Tableau, and Monitor Deloitte, amongst others.

💡 Where to find Bryan: LinkedIn

Key Insights 

⚡Making a client-agency relationship work takes time. You can't build a strong and long-lasting partnership overnight. It takes time and dedication from both parties. Bryan says, "Normally, you're going to pay incrementally more. It's going to take a while for them to ramp [up], and so you have to be willing to make that investment in order to get the return out of them. And I think just the way in which ZoomInfo moves, we move very quickly. We iterate very quickly. I think it can be challenging for a third party to come in and really understand our business in a way that we would expect them to and move as quickly as we would expect them to. And so that's why we have not used them as much here." 

⚡The client-agency relationship is a two-way street. It takes two to make a partnership work. So, if you want to create a mutually effective partnership with your external vendor, make sure you're both committed to it. Bryan says, "The quality of the work obviously is important as well. But I do think the way in which you work together is really key and making sure that you're developing that relationship so that you're on the same page and getting the most out of the partnership." 

⚡Being receptive to feedback is one of the key traits of a good agency. Being receptive to feedback makes all the difference in a client-agency relationship. Bryan shares an example of a negative experience that turned positive. He explains, "I think, in particular, once you provide that feedback, not actioning on it is a real problem. And actually, on the flip side, that digital agency I mentioned that I've now worked with at a few companies, we had a period where it wasn't going [well], but we provided that feedback, and they jumped on it, and they said, 'Hey, this is a process we're going to put in place to make sure that we address it. This is how we're going to check in. We want to be very open about the areas that we're sort of getting that feedback.' And they would collect it across the team and share it back. So I think that's an example of where you can do a better job of it, but with this particular one, they were having issues on sort of sloppiness of work, timeliness of work, and then they weren't being responsive to the feedback and making the changes that we needed."

In this episode of the YouShouldTalkTo podcast, our host Daniel Weiner welcomes Ashley Remstad, the VP of Marketing at Homebot. They discuss the benefits of working with agencies, explain why trust is necessary, and share tips on creating authentic relationships.

Guest-at-a-Glance

💡 Name: Ashley Remstad, VP of Marketing at Homebot

💡 Noteworthy: Homebot is a client engagement and retention portal that maximizes repeat and referral business for lenders and real estate agents by empowering consumers to build wealth through homeownership.

💡 Where to find Ashley: LinkedIn

Key Insights:

⚡Agencies prepare you for the unknown. The future is unknown, but it's always good to have expert professionals on your team. That's why agencies are a great way to prepare for the unknown. Ashley says, "I think that agencies prep you for the unknown. You're balancing a lot. You're working with a lot of different companies of all different sizes, depending on where you're at, and it makes you flexible. So, if I'm honest, the transition was pretty easy. I had worked with a lot of companies that were the size of my company at that time. I knew exactly what they needed. I knew exactly how I could add value. So it was pretty seamless, I will say."

⚡Agencies get a bad reputation. Agencies have a terrible reputation for being unreliable or unprofessional. But not every agency is the same. Some agencies don't deserve the bad rep they get. Ashley explains, "I think agencies do get a bad rap probably because there are a lot of bad agencies out there. Intentional or not, there are a lot of agencies that are not acting as partners, that are spreading themselves too thin, that are doing a poor job with hiring, that are not good business planners. Honestly, they haven't created a good business, and because of that, in an already crowded space, I would say there are a lot of bad agencies, and so agencies do get a bad rep. If you've been burned once, that's all it takes."

⚡The best outreach strategy is to create value and build trust. The best way to a client's heart is to provide value. Value creates trust, and trust creates strong relationships. Ashley explains, "I had a very long sales process with someone that relentlessly reached out to me, and all he did honestly was provide value. 'Hey, what can I do for you? Is there anything that I can help your team? I noticed that your team is using this tool. Hey, I've done research here. I wanted to send you this. I thought you'd be interested in this.' And he kept me connected and engaged for, I don't know, six months or something, and it worked. So you established trust that way and authority, and people want to be in a collaborative space and feel like you can add value." 

Guest-at-a-Glance

💡 Name: Kathy Neumann, CMO of Rent.

💡 Noteworthy: Kathy is a strong marketing professional skilled in marketing, digital, social and brand strategy, market research, management, direct, performance and multi-channel marketing. Kathy joined Rent as the CMO in February 2022 with a wealth of experience in brand and consumer marketing. Most recently, Kathy oversaw integrated marketing at chewy.com, the beloved direct-to-consumer pet food and pet care brand, awarded one of "America's 20 Hottest Brands 2020" by Ad Age. Prior to Chewy, Kathy worked on building brands including Carter's, OshKosh B'gosh, Lands' End, Pink, and Victoria's Secret. 

💡 Where to find Kathy: LinkedIn l Website

Key Insights:

⚡ Test before you pull back the budget. The COVID pandemic has brought both changes and problems that have affected everyday life and the entire economy. Due to the uncertainty that followed COVID, many companies stopped working, and even now, we are witnessing many brands pulling back and controlling spending due to the current economic situation. Kathy points out that pulling back budgets is often a short-term reaction that can do more long-term damage, so she suggests testing first. "The most important thing to do is keep testing when you tend to pull back budgets. Sometimes we get that test because they're expensive in the short term or more inefficient in the short term, but that's what's going to give us the leverage to improve our performance over the next six, 18 months. And if you forgo your testing plan, you are really giving up future efficiencies. Whether that's new channels, new creative, new copy, CTAs, all of that stuff, it's still gotta be tested just like it was back when things were a little bit brighter, maybe. And if we walk away from that, we're walking away from really being good stewards of the business."

⚡ Agencies are a smart investment in partnerships to accelerate performance and learning. Often the success of a brand or a business depends on creating the right partnership with an agency because agencies can contribute a lot to their development. They can help you with many things, and you can also learn a lot from working with them. Kathy says that during her career, she has used agencies for many different things and that you should definitely invest in them. "Agencies can play a critical role in helping grow a business, especially as we're testing new things, and we're trying to find additional expertise, additional hands on the keyboard, skill sets that we may not have or we may not know we need yet. And it's often easier to partner with an agency and learn through something, and maybe there comes a time where you have an understanding of what's going to work for your business, you've learned through it, and it starts to migrate back into the house."

Guest-at-a-Glance

💡 Name: Ivonne Kinser, VP of Marketing and Innovation at Avocados From Mexico.

💡 Noteworthy: Throughout her career, Ivonne has played leadership roles in multiple corporations representing multibillion-dollar brands, as well as in top advertising agencies such as Lintas, McCann Erickson Worldwide, and The Richards Group, working with well-known brands in almost every category. In 2014, she joined Avocados From Mexico as the head of Digital Marketing, and in seven years, she built the organization's digital practice, which became one of the most successful digital groups in terms of performance and innovation. In 2022, Ivonne became the first Latina to be awarded the American Marketing Association's highest honor bestowed upon a deserving recipient, the Lifetime Achievement Award. She has also been included in the list of "100 Most Influential Latinas in the U.S." in 2021 and 2022. 

💡 Where to find Ivonne: LinkedIn l Website

Key Insights
⚡ The Metaverse is not for everyone and every brand. Recently, the number of startups and established companies working on building products around the Metaverse has been growing. The Metaverse is a virtual world, a vision of how the next internet generation will work. It's a trend, but while some see it as the next big technological breakthrough, others aren't impressed. Ivonne says the Metaverse works for some brands but not all. "You have one shot and that sort of thing. If you go and you do it right, you'll have great results; or you will burn the brand in the eyes of the consumers that may have a bad experience. And honestly, I have no doubt that we're going to get there. If we have the same conversation in maybe three years, the situation will be a lot different, but right now, I don't think the hardware is there to provide the experience that we want to provide to our consumers. There are exceptions; there are some brands that are doing it really well, but it's not a majority."

⚡ Agencies don't have visibility into all the areas of business. More and more brands are working with smaller independent agencies specializing in one or two services because hardly any full-service agency can do everything really well. According to Ivonne, it's hard to find an agency that can have visibility over all the areas of the business as someone has on the brand side. "Agencies are missing one capability that perhaps is at the strategic level. When a group of people at the part, whatever you want it to be, can look at the business of the brand and look at all the possibilities, and then identify the problem, identify the ways to get to that solution, and then assemble that team of expertise within the agency."

⚡ Ivonne says there's a lot to learn about digital integration from vendors and agencies, so she always devotes time to those who offer technology that is a strong driver of anything and those who understand brand challenges and provide a solution for a specific problem. "One of the things that makes a brand successful in this space — digital technology integration — is just gathering the knowledge from the players that are building those capabilities in the industry. So, I gain as much as they gain because I'm learning from them. 

In this episode of YouShouldTalkTo, Kyle Lacy, the CMO of Jellyfish, explains how to manage your teams' expectations successfully and how you can succeed in the future. Kyle and our host Daniel Weiner discuss brand measurement, the importance of driving efficient revenue, and what separates the good agencies from the bad.

Guest-at-a-Glance

💡 Name: Kyle Lacy, CMO of Jellyfish.

💡 Noteworthy: Kyle has spent the last 17 years building, scaling, failing, and winning in high-growth software. He is currently serving the Jellyfish team as their CMO, and before joining Jellyfish, Kyle had the pleasure of building a company called Lessonly. He has also led teams at Seismic, OpenView, Salesforce, and ExactTarget. 

Kyle has been recognized as one of Indiana's Forty under 40 by the Indianapolis Business Journal, Anderson University's Young Alumni of the Year, and TechPoint's Young Professional of the Year. In addition, he is the author of three books: Twitter Marketing for Dummies (Wiley, 2010), Branding Yourself (Pearson, 2011), and Social CRM for Dummies (Wiley, 2012).

💡 Where to find Kyle: LinkedIn l Website


Key Insights

⚡ You don't have to measure everything. Brand measurement programs measure aspects of a brand's product, competition, and category, and one of the main reasons for conducting brand measurement is to ascertain changes that improve your brand's performance. But, according to Kyle, in the marketing world, there is a dilemma about whether or not you should spend a ton of time and energy trying to measure a brand, and he doesn't think you should. "I get the measurement fanatics that think you should measure everything and can measure everything — which is true. You can build attribution models to measure absolutely everything that you possibly could want to do, but there are some times where experiences — like a great direct mail or a great event, or a podcast — it just doesn't need to be measured. And I've found that creatives are more creative when it's the idea that's more important than the actual revenue generated."

⚡ It's important to drive efficient revenue. While the past few years have seen plenty of investment, successful fundraising, and rapid growth, things have changed. Tech is having a rough time regarding the economy and layoffs, and Kyle says that it's still about growing but while driving efficient revenue. "If you drive efficient revenue — both inbound and supporting outbound, or your product — then you're going to have a good story to tell. If you don't do it efficiently, it's going to be very, very difficult in the near future."

⚡ The marketing team needs to understand the leading and lagging indicators of where the market is going. Kyle is the CMO of Jellyfish and successfully leads his team and manages their expectations. From the leadership standpoint, Kyle explains how CMOs should manage the expectations of their teams. "We have a product that is needed; there's a reason why we have product/market fit. We need to execute and be proactive and remember, and have empathy with the market. I've said that for the past six years to my team, so it's not

In this episode of the YouShouldTalkTo podcast, our host Daniel Weiner welcomes Sergio Pérez, the senior director of Omnichannel at Bojangles. They talk about the essential skills you should look for in an agency (especially within the food industry), how to allow for creativity, and how a client-agency relationship is similar to marriage.

Guest-at-a-Glance
💡 Name: Sergio Pérez -- Senior Director of Omnichannel at Bojangles.

💡 Noteworthy: Sergio is an innovative marketer who drives results by launching best-in-class digital platforms and developing strategies that drive sales. In his role, he is focused on redefining the way Bojangles’ customers experience, engage, and purchase by digitally transforming and modernizing the brand. In 2022, Sergio was named on QSR Magazine's "35 Young Leaders to Watch" list. Prior to Bojangles, he worked at Church's Chicken, Johnny Rockets, Huddle House, Perkins Restaurant & Bakery, and Garden Fresh Restaurants.

💡 Where to find Sergio: LinkedIn

Key Insights 

⚡Having industry knowledge is essential for agencies working in the food industry. Industry experience is not a must in every industry, but when it comes to the restaurant field, agencies need to know the ins and outs of it. Sergio says, "Having agencies that understand the complexities and the intricacies of the business is critical because, one, it enables us to move quickly, and it gives us a competitive advantage in terms of speed to be able to make better decisions for restaurants and restaurant brands versus having to spend an awful lot of time teaching an agency how business works, the impact that operations has on the business, so on and so forth."

⚡Set clear expectations with your agency but allow for creativity. While clear directions are key to a successful client-agency collaboration, you should still allow your partner to be creative and innovative. Sergio explains, "I've always believed that agencies are only as good as the direction you give them. For us, the responsibility from a client perspective is to make sure that we're giving very clear direction in terms of what are our objectives and what are our goals. What is the problem that we're trying to solve? But also balance that with giving an agency room to think and to be creative and to do their work. So what I've found to be the most successful in working with agencies is establishing really clear expectations, really clear guidelines because you get closer to delivering the result."

⚡Client-agency relationships are a lot like a marriage. A client-agency relationship is about trust, belief, and communication, just like a marriage. Sergio explains this metaphor, "The way I would describe it is: agency-client relationships are a little bit like a marriage. You're in it together in health and in illness. But I do believe that, similar to a marriage, there's a point where I think one or the other partner feels like it might be over, and it might be time to get a divorce, if you will. And because our relationship with agencies is, one, a partnership and us being transparent and them having a seat at the table, it becomes very evident at some point when it's time to move on."

In this episode of the You Should Talk To podcast, our host Daniel Weiner welcomes Natalie Cunningham, the CMO of Terminus. They talk about why having agency experience is a plus for employees, why it's important to always read the person you're working with, and the top things to look for in an external partner.

Guest-at-a-Glance

💡 Name: Natalie Cunningham, CMO of Terminus

💡 Noteworthy: Natalie is a versatile SaaS marketing executive with deep experience aligning go-to-market teams to achieve sustainable revenue growth. Before joining Terminus, she cut her chops in B2B marketing agencies and consulted with global Fortune 500 brands on ABM, demand generation, brand, PR, and digital. 

💡 Where to find Natalie: LinkedIn

Key Insights :

⚡Always read the person you're working with. Knowing how to read the person you're working with gives you an edge. That's why this skill is so valuable for client-agency relationships. Natalie explains, "Just remembering in agencies, in the sales process, and certainly in the account management process that you're working with different personas, you are working with people who have different levels of experience and want different things from you. And if you waste an executive's time trying to teach them something that they already know, you've lost my trust."

⚡Honesty comes first. Honesty is truly the best policy when it comes to client-agency relationships. Natalie says, "Let's assume it's a strategic agency partnership. I need you to be honest with me about what you're good at and what you're not. I know that you are not good at everything on your list of services. Just go into it knowing that I know that. Tell me what you're great at. Tell me why you're great at it, and give me some examples — like what makes you great, not just because you think you're great."

⚡Poor communication is a deal breaker. It's a tale as old as time; if you want to build a successful partnership with someone, you need to put communication first. Natalie says, "I think the biggest thing across the board is communication. If you want to hit a pet peeve with me quickly, don't tell me that you are not going to hit a deadline. Just miss it entirely without communicating anything, and then show up for the next meeting and tell me you're still working on it. I will lose my ever-loving mind."

In this episode of the YouShouldTalkTo podcast, our host Daniel Weiner welcomes Casey Terrell, the CMO of Krystal. They talk about why an agency should be an extension of your team, why you need to work with people you like, and how to build a successful client-agency relationship.

Guest-at-a-Glance

💡 Name: Casey Terrell, CMO of Krystal

💡 Noteworthy: Casey is a West Point graduate and has a Masters in Strategic Communications from Columbia and a Finance/Marketing MBA. He has a career track record of transforming B2C and B2B revenue, visibility, and operations for globally recognized brands in the retail, hospitality, restaurant, CPG, and tech sectors.

💡 Where to find Casey: LinkedIn

Key Insights
⚡Your agency is an extension of your team. Treating your agency as an extension of your team can significantly benefit your company. It allows you to focus on what you do best while your agency takes care of the rest. Casey says, "It's a cheesy thing to say again, but agency partners really should be partners. They should be extensions. They should really be part of your team. I hate when agencies pitch and say you should do this. It's 'we'; I consider you part of the team."

⚡Work with people you like. When you work with people you like, you are more likely to achieve better results. Casey explains, "It's much more on the human side because you can look at agency capes, PR capes, whatever it is, and say, 'Hey, we're digital agencies based on data, but do we gel well together?' That's one of the things that we liked about our current partner — the way that they actually briefed but also just their philosophy."

⚡ It's relationships that matter most. There are many factors to consider when hiring an agency partner, but one of the most critical is your relationship. Casey says, "A lot of it for me just comes down to what your relationship is like. What is your rapport like? Because they're going to do the work. You're going to get a good plan. You'll get whichever, but did you actually enjoy it? So really, the treasure was the friends you made along the way."

In this episode of the YouShouldTalkTo podcast, our host Daniel Weiner welcomes Mario Paganini, the VP of Marketing at Stord. They chat about the benefits of working with smaller agencies, the importance of personal referrals, and the power of a strong client-agency relationship.

Guest-at-a-Glance

💡 Name: Mario Paganini, VP of Marketing at Stord

💡 Noteworthy: Mario is a 3x Head/VP of Marketing, leading 2 of those startups to unicorn status and seeing an exit with the 3rd. 

💡 Where to find Mario: LinkedIn

Key Insights
⚡Playing it safe is holding you back. Marketing is constantly changing and evolving. That's why playing it safe may hold your business back. Mario explains, "Once we established that our goal is to be more successful than what is already out there, the game theory became unbelievably clear because if you're trying to be here and everyone else is here, and you look at them, and you say, 'All right, these big incumbent competitors that exist today, our goal is to unseat them. Our goal is to disrupt them.' The game theory becomes so clear that that outcome is impossible by playing the game the same way that these players are playing."

⚡Working with smaller and specialized agencies is better for your business. Specialized agencies are more focused on a specific goal and therefore, can lead your business to success. Mario says, "In cases where there's a specific area of skill that you need help with, and you are able to support them properly, manage them properly, communicate with them properly — hyper valuable. In cases where you're like, 'I don't know what to do. I need help. I'm just going to hire an agency and hope that they solve my problems,' basically, never seen that work personally."

⚡Build a strong relationship with your agency. When building a strong client-agency relationship, both parties need to do the work. Mario says, "It's about finding people you trust, finding people that have proven they're able to do work that inspires you. And then trust is a two-way street. You have to be candid with the agency. You've got to tell them when things are not going well in your business. You've got to tell them when things change. You've got to open the doors to and, oftentimes, the financial success of your business, the business goals. And once you've established that and assuming that you did the vetting right and have a good agency, they're going to be sharing in your success." 

Guest-at-a-Glance

💡 Name: Olga Andrienko, VP of Brand Marketing at Semrush.

💡 Noteworthy: With her team, Olga has built one of the most substantial international communities in the online marketing industry and has expanded Semrush’s brand visibility worldwide, entering the market in over 50 countries. In 2018, Olga was named one of the 25 most influential women in digital marketing by TopRank. In addition, Olga speaks at major marketing conferences, and her quotes on user behavior appear in media like Business Insider and Washington Post.

💡 Where to find Olga: Linkedin l Website

Key Insights

⚡ The concept of gated content. Gated content is any type of content that viewers can only access after exchanging their information. Users must fill out a form before they get access, and the form may ask for the user's name and email address as well as more information like their company and job title. According to Olga, gated content is excellent at the specific stage of the bias journey, but it's not great if it's the centerpiece of your campaign. "Let's say we have a track stage landing page, and then they register, they didn't convert, or they just visited the page, and then they left. So, we still have their information, and then they're not clearly engaged. This is where we might send them a state of the search-like report, which is also a huge report of a hundred pages. So we can put it anywhere else. And then, in PDF, that's digestible, and also we know that they have more interest towards us. Or there's a webinar, and for a webinar, we need registrations, and this is also something that I see as gated content."

⚡By building a community, you will build a brand. Building a brand — not just a business — will give you massive growth and fans, but it is a process that requires a strategy. As Olga says, the easiest way to build a brand is through people by creating a community. "Every startup wants to build their community, and then they don't know how. It requires certain people, but also it just requires you giving a lot of attention to people who already know you. And then, the community grows, but it's still not visible to the business. And then suddenly, there's a tipping point where your community's so big, and suddenly, you have a brand."

⚡The importance of agencies. An agency partner is powerful, and an agency partnership can increase your marketing reach, help you earn referral business, create variable revenue, provide value to current clients, etc. However, there are both positive and negative agency experiences. Olga sees agencies as an extended team and an essential part of her work and explains where she finds vendors. "I am judging a bunch of awards: European content awards, global content awards, social media awards — and usually agencies submit for their clients. So, this is the best way for me to learn about the campaigns of others; I don't go to the media outlets that share the campaigns because it's all restricted, and then I'm not able to share it. And so, they share everything; they share budgets, how it was done, the strategic goals, and the outcome — also screenshots from Google Analytics or any revenue numbers. So those are the best entries. I also save the entries in the folder — the ones that caught my attention — and then I ask my team members to reach out to those agencies if we have something that we could work with them on."

In this episode of YouShouldTalkTo, we are joined by Drew Brucker, the VP of Growth at Lasso. Drew explains what makes a successful client-agency relationship and the metrics marketing teams should focus on in the future, such as ROO. He also shares his best and worst experiences with agencies and why working on a personal brand is vital in today's market. 

Guest-at-a-Glance

💡 Name: Drew Brucker, VP of Growth at Lasso.

💡 Company: Lasso

💡 Noteworthy: If you want to learn more about Drew, visit his LinkedIn profile, and read the About section. It will inspire and motivate you and, above all, put a smile on your face. His sense of humor is fantastic. Creativity is his second name, and as he says, ''My creative juices flow when I'm given a blank canvas. It's where I do my best work.''

💡 Where to find Drew: LinkedIn

Key Insights

⚡Instead of focusing on ROI, focus on ROO. It is the shift in mindset required within an organization, especially at the leadership level, and it's time for new perspectives. For instance, we say a campaign was successful if it leads to a financial transaction. But a modern business requires acknowledging other metrics. ''ROO is a return on objective. What is the actual objective or objectives that you have for this particular campaign, this program, or this channel? And if that's measurable, it doesn't have to be directly tied to revenue. It could be tied to a goal, brand awareness, or exposure. Some of those other things that do matter could be leading indicators for future success.''

⚡Recommendations and personal contacts are a go-to for finding a reliable marketing agency. This approach has clearly become a standard as most of our guests — including Drew — confirmed that they don't search on Google for a partner for specific marketing projects. ''I'm using existing relationships. It would be an agency I've worked with and had a good experience with, or if someone on my team has had a good experience with an agency relative to the project. If those lead me nowhere, then it's being more proactive. I ask other people I trust for introductions, but I usually start with myself and my team.''

⚡The best time to build your personal brand is now. It can be on LinkedIn or Twitter, but social media allows us to connect with people from our field and create networks that can easily result in better job opportunities. Whether you are an individual contractor or an agency, there is an audience and community for everyone on these platforms. ''You own your personal brand. You have a personal brand whether you like it or not, so you might as well make it a good one. It is the new version of your resume. So put yourself out there [...]. And that's if you want to work for a company — but also to start your own thing. There's never been a better time to start your own thing. And so, this is the age of taking control of those things in a way you never had before.''

In this episode of YouShouldTalkTo, David Manders Jr, the WaterCraft Advertising Supervisor at Yamaha Motor Corporation, USA, joins our host Daniel Weiner to discuss the key to a solid and successful client-agency relationship. David shares what it was like working at an agency and how he approaches these partnerships today, considering he’s the client now. David and Daniel discuss open communication as the key to a successful collaboration. In addition, David shares their expectations from when they looked for an agency to work with on a new campaign. ''We weren't looking for someone to help us move the product or grow an e-commerce footprint. We were looking for partners who could help us tell our story a little better and a little differently than we may have done before.''

Guest-at-a-Glance

💡 Name: David Manders Jr., WaterCraft Advertising Supervisor 

💡 Company: Yamaha Motor Corporation, USA

💡 Noteworthy: David has over eight years of experience leading strategic marketing and advertising campaigns for regional and global brands.

💡 Where to find David: LinkedIn

Key Insights

⚡Working with an agency is not mandatory, so make it a worthy investment if you opt for it. David used to work at an agency, and he says that no one forces you to enter such a partnership. But if you do, make the most of their expertise because you hired them for a reason. ''I never want to be the client who's not going to listen to the expertise of that company I've asked to work with me. One of my least favorite things when working at an agency was hearing no a lot and being told no without much explanation. So, one of the things we do is — I'll always listen to a rationale, even if I disagree with it at first. I want to hear your explanation for why you're selling something, fighting for something, or thinking it'll work.''

⚡We had a few things defined that made our work with an agency straightforward. As David and his team decided to partner with an agency for their new campaign, they contacted YouShouldTalkTo and asked for help in that search. Luckily for the agency they picked, David's team had a campaign playbook. It is a valuable guide that enables the agency to deliver what David's team expected. The playbook explained that “the persona we've been looking at is this female with the propensity to become a boater, who she is, what she does, how we can speak to her, and what she wants to hear from a brand like ours. [...]  We also had a lot of the creative ready to go. We've been developing creatives all year. We have this story we're ready to tell, but now we need to figure out how we're going to tell this story. How are we going to distribute this content and get it out to the right people?''

⚡As a client, be open to suggestions and share as much as possible with the agency. It is the only way to ensure that both of you are on the same page with what the campaign should look like and achieve. ''I recommend talking to agencies or prospects on all ends of the spectrum. Because going into this, what you think you might be looking for might not end up being what you need by the end of it. You might be exposed to new concepts and ways of thinking that stick with you and click with you. Or you might be exposed to things you didn't realize you don't want, but then you clearly understand that's something you don't need or don't want. "

But for a successful partnership between a brand and an agency, both parties must have mutual understanding and trust. This is why companies are increasingly moving towards smaller, independent agencies. Thus, companies with different experts establish a solid and open relationship.

In this episode of YouShouldTalkTo, our host Daniel Weiner welcomes Jason Schulweis, former EVP, Brand Partnerships & Creative Studio at Morning Brew. Jason and Daniel discuss the importance of working in small and large companies and gathering knowledge for business growth. They discuss the creator economy, partnerships, and how to build a strong relationship within a partnership.

Guest-at-a-Glance
💡 Name: Jason Schulweis

💡 What he does: Jason is the former EVP, Brand Partnerships & Creative Studio at Morning Brew

💡 Noteworthy: Jason is an experienced advertising revenue executive. He advises media and content brands focusing on revenue growth through advertising, brand/agency partnerships, sales strategy, branded content, and B2B/integrated marketing. Until recently, Jason was the EVP, Brand Partnerships and Creative Studio at Morning Brew. He joined them in July 2019 and has been self-employed since October.

💡 Where to find Jason: Linkedin 

Key Insights

⚡ The concept of making good in partnership. A partnership is a relationship between two or more people engaged in trade or business, and there are many advantages to a partnership. First, two heads (or more) are better than one. Your business is easy to set up, and start-up costs are low. And finally, more capital is available for business. As Jason notes, a performance partnership model should exist in a partnership world. "It would be amazing if, one day, that concept of making good could work both ways. And what I mean by that is that, so often on the publisher or vendor side, if we under-deliver or if something doesn't go perfectly right, we often have to make good or make back up the media or spend in some way. I think it would be super cool down the road — if publishers or vendors over-delivered and really go above and beyond — that the reverse ends up being true and that we would end up getting more money by default."

⚡ The creator economy is changing. Creators are people who have real influence and followers, real communities, audiences, and reach. According to Jason, the creator economy has been changing, there has been a democratization of creation, and it will change again soon. "It's been an amazing shift, and it's been awesome for the larger content and media industry getting more people involved and really opening up business lines and a whole new economy for a lot of the industry and a lot of creators, but I do think that some of that's going to start to course correct a little bit back to not necessarily where it was, but I have a belief that it's easier to turn celebrities into creators than creators into celebrities."

⚡ The inbox is the new homepage. People are increasingly giving importance to creating daily content on social networks. And since that content is often very intimate, the inbox is where they want peace. As Jason points out, Morning Brew data shows that, in most cases, the first thing we open in the morning is our inbox; it has become a ritual. "The inbox is the most intimate environment. It is the new homepage. That is your life’s homepage; it's the first thing that you open when you wake up. [...] Morning Brew also has the data where I think it was 92% of the Morning Brew community views Morning Brew as a daily ritual."

While a lot of agencies are good at certain things, 80% of them wouldn't be suitable for you. Good agencies take care of the process, communication, and don’t miss deadlines — and if they do miss them for some reason, they explain why it happened. Even today, because of that, smaller agencies are a better choice.

In this episode of YouShouldTalkTo, our host Daniel Weiner welcomes Kammie Kasten, Director of Marketing at FireRock Building Materials. Kammie and Daniel talk about brand marketing and the importance and challenges of brand measurement. They discuss the impact of the supply chain on marketing efforts and why people are increasingly going to smaller agencies.

Guest-at-a-Glance

💡 Name: Kammie Kasten, Director of marketing at FireRock Building Materials.

💡 Noteworthy: Kammie graduated from Clemson University, majoring in communications at Clemson. After graduating, she moved into the agency world, and her first agency job was as a social media planner. Kammie then worked at Big Communications as an interactive producer, social media strategist, and digital strategist, and finally, as an AVP marketing strategy at Regions Bank. Since July this year, she has been marketing director at FireRock Building Materials. 

💡 Where to find Kammie: Linkedin l Website

Key Insights

⚡ Brand marketing doesn't get the credit it deserves. Brand marketing is the process of establishing and developing a relationship between a brand and a consumer that promotes the entire brand, using products and services as evidence to support the brand promise. According to Kammie, brand marketing should not be neglected. "In the digital space, people are always looking for a cost-per-acquisition measurement. And unless you're using a mixed media model that can measure all those touch points that somebody might have in the journey (and even then, there are limitations to that), it's not giving fair credit to brand marketing efforts that are not necessarily driven by new accounts or phone calls at the bottom of the funnel. I still love brand marketing, and I think it's valuable. I think it's also valuable for younger generations who value the ethics of an organization, and they wanna know that they're supporting an organization that aligns with their values."

⚡ Agency experience can make you a better agency partner if you're in marketing. Kammie has had many interesting experiences, including big agency experience and transitioned to the brand side. Today, she is the marketing director at FireRock Building Materials, and she points out that her previous experience has helped her a lot in this job. "At the end of the day, it makes me sympathetic, but it also makes me a better partner and a more accountable marketer because I've seen the inside. I've seen the spend machine. I can sniff out a turd, but I also think it means that I know how to approach an agency. […] A lot of times, you go through a discovery phase of trying to understand what their (clients) problem is, and you realize it's something that's not within your realm of experience; it's not an agency problem. But then, you're going to spin and try to change the perception of a brand when they have a quality issue, or they have an internal culture issue; you can't solve for those things."

In this episode of the YouShouldTalkTo podcast, our host Daniel Weiner welcomes Tori Barlow, the VP of marketing at Allbound. They chat about the four critical aspects of a good agency, the importance of personalization, and why specialized agencies are better than full-service agencies. 

Guest-at-a-Glance

💡 Name: Tori Barlow VP of Marketing at Allbound

💡 Noteworthy: Allbound is a partner relationship management software. If you manage reseller referrals, your partners can come in and log into the portal, register deals, and read about updates.

💡 Where to find Tori: LinkedIn

Key Insights 

⚡Google is not the only place to find an agency partner. Despite popular belief, Google is not the only way to find a good agency partner. Tori shares some of her suggestions for finding a good agency. She says, "I don't know if I've ever Googled for an agency partner. Here's where I would go if I wasn't using you — now, you're my first go-to — but I'm a part of this community that you're also a part of called Pavilion, and it has a lot of other like-minded marketers; so, I find a lot of goodies there. If you're not in Pavilion, I'm sure there are a ton of other Facebook Groups, networking events, or groups that can help here. But luckily, I also have a good number of marketing mentors. I think if someone were to refer an agency that they were unhappy with; I just don't know anyone who would do that. So, I really take their word for it."

⚡The four key aspects of a good agency partner. Many factors go into a successful client-agency partnership. Tori shares her top four. She says, "I think the name of the game for agencies when we are looking for one are a few things. One is accountability. I think we count on you as the agency to deliver a certain standard of work that we've talked about within the process. And so, accountability is definitely one of those things. The second thing is proactivity. So I think this goes hand-in-hand with us as the client; we have a million different things going on. We hired you to help us with staying one step ahead — whether that's our competition or me reporting to the CEO on what he's looking for — helping us stay proactive with whatever we're working on together. The third thing is organization. [...] And then the fourth, and I think one of the most important things, is being an advisor to us."

⚡ It's not just about the work; it's also about the experience. A successful client-agency collaboration depends on the overall experience, not just the quality of work. Tori explains, "I think it really comes down to if you miss your deadline. That's the first thing that pops into my head. Here's why. We hire you as the agency to — I've said this so many times — be our partner, but then also, we have to meet deadlines. We have to say what we're going to do. We have to stay accountable. If you miss your deadline, I think it's a really simple thing, but it makes a world of difference because, on the client side, I'm telling my CEO, my board of directors, 'Hey, we're going to get this campaign launched. This is how much money we're putting behind it. This is going to go great.' And if it's late or subpar performance, it throws everything else off in our world."

In this episode of the YouShouldTalkTo podcast, our host Daniel Weiner welcomes Hedy Payghambari, the head of digital growth at Blaze Pizza. They chat about the importance of industry knowledge and persistence in an agency, how to find strong agency referrals, and whether one agency can do everything for you.

Guest-at-a-Glance

💡 Name: Hedy Payghambari, Head of Digital Growth at Blaze Pizza

💡 Noteworthy: Hedy is a creative artist who loves listening to world news and geeking out over Forbes’ business articles. She's as creative as she is analytical, which is why she double majored in business and Spanish. Her creative and analytical sides fuse perfectly as a digital leader. Hedy likes making sense out of numbers and chaos and feels at ease around change and ambiguity. 

💡 Where to find Hedy: LinkedIn

Key Insights 

⚡Industry knowledge and persistence will make an agency stand out from the crowd. There are so many agencies in the market right now. So how do you find the best vendor for your needs? Hedy recommends looking for knowledge and persistence. She says, "I think that's the part; it's showing an understanding of the industry, whether it's pizza or a certain technology or service. And then, coming in and identifying the problems you see and how you're going to help solve them, I think, is what makes people stand out. And also, persistence."

⚡Turn to your community for agency referrals. Another major concern that companies have is not knowing where to look when they need a good agency. Hedy says she turns to her peers for referrals. She explains, "Community is the first place because you want to hear of successful relationships and what problems they've solved. Just peers, mentors, and reaching out to your network and being like, 'Hey, this is my problem. Who have you seen solve this well?'"

⚡Agencies should be proactive and solution-oriented. A good agency is skilled and experienced. But a great agency is proactive and solution-oriented. Hedy says, "I don't expect every agency to solve everything on their own. This should be a collaboration, but at least help me understand my options and the good and bad of each, so we can make a decision that we feel good about. I think when problems arise and agencies are not solution-oriented and don't think creatively around a solution, that is the part that has frustrated me in the past."

In this episode of YouShouldTalkTo, Leigh Chesley, the chief customer officer at Longbow Advantage, joins our host Daniel Weiner to share her experience with finding the right agency. They talk about where and how Leigh searches for agencies, the question she asks a potential partner, and why she considers this kind of collaboration a partnership. She also discusses leadership challenges and changes since transitioning to a C-suite role. 

Guest-at-a-Glance

💡 Name: Leigh Chesley, Chief Customer Officer at Longbow Advantage

💡 Noteworthy: Leigh is a LinkedIn legend and a YouShouldTalkTo Advisory Board member. 

Key Insights
⚡The success of a client-agency relationship is everyone's responsibility. We often hear stories of how a particular agency didn't meet clients' expectations and left them to clean up the mess the agency made, costing them more money and time than they had initially planned to invest. But, as Leigh explains, the path to a successful partnership is setting clear expectations from the beginning and, if necessary, over-communicating. ''It's easy on the brand side to point out what's going wrong and blame the agency. But I'm a big believer that a vendor relationship is a two-way relationship. It's a two-way conversation. And so I think we, as the internal owner of that relationship, have to take responsibility when something goes wrong. Are there agencies out there that you wouldn't recommend to a colleague? Of course. But I don't think it's as often as marketers might like to say.''

⚡We turn to recommendations when looking for an agency. Although it is not tricky to google for an agency nearby, most companies still rely on word of mouth to find it. ''It is a community. I'm getting recommendations from previous colleagues, talking to people on my team, 'Hey, who have you worked with in the past that you liked and had good experiences with?' Nine times out of ten — I would say probably ten times out of ten — I'm gonna talk to those agencies before I find some random agency from Google. [...] I can't remember the last time I started a relationship with a vendor that wasn't recommended by somebody who had worked with them in the past,'' says Leigh.

⚡Agencies must know the market and the business to build long-term partnerships. As in any sphere, marketing undergoes changes and trends. Still, not all initiatives fit every industry and company. Therefore, agencies must familiarize themselves with the field a company operates in and its ideal customers and, from there, create a marketing strategy. ''Some brands, not only do they not want to, but they shouldn't be innovative. I'm in the supply chain. [...] Don't get me wrong, but supply chain's a pretty old-school market. The whole joke in the supply chain is that it's become sexy again. I'm like, 'It's become talked about, for sure.' But if an agency came to me and pitched something wildly out of line with where I think the market is and how the people in the market talk, that would be such a turnoff for me because it would tell me that they care way more about big, flashy, bold campaigns than they do about understanding the market and driving results, whether it looks and feels cool or not.''

But mutual trust is critical; so, prioritize trust and transparency over everything else if you want to make your partnership work long-term. In this episode of the YouShouldTalkTo podcast, our host Daniel Weiner welcomes Allison Sparks, the head of marketing at Shameless Pets. They discuss the importance of mutual trust, finding a good agency, and why honesty is the best policy.

Guest-at-a-Glance
💡 Name: Allison Sparks, Head of marketing at Shameless Pets

💡 Noteworthy: Shameless Pets is a startup that makes sustainable dog and cat treats.

💡 Where to find Allison: LinkedIn

Key Insights 
⚡Agencies can bring immense value to your business. Hiring an external vendor to step in where you need help is always a good idea, and it can add tremendous value to your business. Allison says, "I think it can take some time to build that partnership and relationship and find the right agency, but when you do, especially as a small team, they can help so much and bring so much value to the business."

⚡Mutual trust is vital in a partnership. Without trust, you have nothing. So, if you want to make your agency relationship work, focus on building mutual trust and respect. Allison explains, "Building that mutual trust and partnership — so being really transparent. On the client side, being able to articulate the needs of the business and what you're looking for in an agency. And then on the agency side, being transparent about what kind of strengths and capabilities they can bring to the table."

⚡Your community is the best place to find a good agency. Finding strong agency recommendations is not that simple. But you can always turn to your community for help. Allison says, "I think the people in my network, the people in my company's network, and the extended network say, 'Oh, talk to so-and-so and see if they've had experience with this. Have they worked with other clients who have had a good experience?' And then, based on those closer connections, if you're still looking, go to a Slack community or your LinkedIn community and other digital community spaces. But I think that's where you have the luck and the best ability to vet partners."

But transparent communication is one of the most critical aspects of creating a good agency experience. In this episode of the YouShouldTalkTo podcast, our host Daniel Weiner welcomes Jennifer Chasteen, the CMO of Synergy HomeCare. They chat about the importance of mutual communication, how to hire the best of the best for your company, and why agency misalignment is the most common problem when outsourcing tasks.

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Guest-at-a-Glance

💡 Name: Jennifer Chasteen, CMO of Synergy HomeCare

💡 Noteworthy: Jessica is a consumer marketing thought leader with 20+ years of experience in successfully turning around iconic brands.

💡 Where to find Jennifer: LinkedIn

Key Insights 

⚡Your agency works like an extension of your team. If you want to make your client-agency relationship work, you've got to treat your agency as a part of your team. Jennifer says, "In my mind, agencies are a tool to extend the working team of the brand, and so whether it's a big brand or a little brand, that's essentially the role. And it's always my goal to surround myself and my team with some best-in-class partners that bring the specific subject matter expertise I need to the table."

⚡Communication is the backbone of a good partnership. Communication is key to a healthy partnership. Jennifer explains, "To me, the center of any relationship, whether it's with a franchisee or an agency or what have you, is this communication and transparency. [...] So, I think that being proactive in that communication and really seeking to understand my business and mirroring that back is what's led to some of the strongest relationships that I've been able to build with my partners."

⚡Let your agency do what they do best. When hiring an external vendor, it's important to let them do what they do best. After all, that's what you've hired them for. Jennifer says, "I am not one of the marketers who is seeking to do my agency's specialty; that's why they're working with me. And so, I've selected them because they're the best at what they do, and we have the opportunity to do great things together. And so learning about my business and being proactive around my needs is the absolute number one thing that helps me."

But there are many different types of agencies and approaches to choose from; so, how do you choose the right one for your company?

In this episode of the YouShouldTalkTo podcast, our host Daniel Weiner welcomes Jodi Lebow, the director of Global Demand Gen at Hexagon. They talk about why there's no one-size-fits-all agency, why a generic approach never works out in business, and how to develop a long-term relationship with your new agency.

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Guest-at-a-Glance
💡 Name: Jodi Lebow, Director, Global Demand Center at Hexagon.

💡 Company: Hexagon

💡 Noteworthy: Jodi is an industry-recognized and high-energy B2B marketing leader with a passion for driving revenue with effective marketing approaches. She has extensive experience in data-driven demand generation and account-based marketing (ABM) and has a track record of creating strategic, integrated go-to-market strategies.

💡 Where to find Jodi: LinkedIn

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Key Insights 

⚡ There's no one-size-fits-all agency. When hiring an external vendor, look for someone who meets your specific needs. Jodi explains, "With agencies, I think that for me one size just doesn't fit all. There are so many types of agencies and different approaches that you can't just lump them. And I think that agencies can provide a lot of best practices and expertise that you might not be able to build up fully internally, and they can also be great for staff augmentation when we can't build up the teams internally. So I think they're a real value. I think, just like anything nowadays, you have to maybe weed through some things to find those really good nuggets of those teams and those agencies that are the right fit."

⚡A generic approach never works out. Thinking out of the box is key in business. Companies are more likely to choose agencies that take the time to write a customized email and take a customized approach. Jodi says, "I think it's looking for those agencies that feel like a fit, that I could see as an extension of my team, that can move at my speed, and hear me during that evaluation process and what we're looking for and can really hone in on that. Because I think that the worst thing is spending time trying to articulate a challenge or need or what we're looking for and then have them still come with some generic pitch deck and try to talk about what they want to talk about. So those that actually can customize and dig in and try to understand what we're looking for [are valuable]."

⚡Make your agency feel like a part of the team. Even though you're working with an external vendor, you should still make them feel like they're a part of your team. Jodi says, "You have to put in the time; they're not going to be able to do things that you want in a vacuum, or you're not going to be happy. So, I think you have to have that time to share and review and also to know we aren't always the channel experts, and we want people to push us. We want to try new things, and I expect them to bring that to the table."

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Therefore, as a business, if you want to be known within a community, you have to build a strong brand for yourself.

In this episode of the YouShouldTalkTo podcast, our host Daniel Weiner welcomes Kathleen Booth, SVP of Marketing at Pavilion. They talk about the rise of communities in the last few years, why they are no longer old boys' networks, and why brand affinity is so crucial. 

Guest-at-a-Glance

💡 Name: Kathleen Booth, SVP of Marketing at Pavilion.

💡 Company: Pavilion

💡 Noteworthy: Kathleen was named by TopRank as one of the 50 Top B2B Marketing Influencers in 2021. She is also the host of The Inbound Success Podcast and an avid LinkedIn creator on topics relating to marketing and entrepreneurship.

💡 Where to find Kathleen: LinkedIn

Key Insights 

⚡Communities are the new Google. Instead of going to Google for answers, professionals are now turning to their communities. And as Kathleen says, communities are the new Google. She explains, "At the end of every episode, I ask a question to the marketers that I interview. And the question is, 'With digital marketing changing so quickly, how do you personally stay educated and up to date?' [...] Over the last year and a half to two, I would say that 90 plus percent of the time, the answer is that I have a community of peers that I turn to. It could be a Slack community; It could be my LinkedIn connections. But almost everybody has said, 'I rely on other people to keep me educated.' And I think the reason for that is it's just faster, more efficient, and better. The information is vetted by trusted sources.

⚡Make sure you meet the execution team before you sign an external agency. One of the most vital steps in external agency vetting is to meet the execution team. Kathleen says, "I think one of the biggest disconnects that happen with agency experiences is that you talk to somebody who sounds great, and then when you start working with that company, you're handed off to an execution team. And they may or may not be great. So when you're vetting agencies, one of the things I like to say is, 'Who's going to be working day to day on my account? I want to meet with those people before I sign to make sure I'm comfortable that they know what they're doing.'"

⚡True ownership mentality goes a long way. The ownership mindset is one of the most critical traits to look for in an external vendor. Kathleen explains, "To this day, if she would still take on client work, I would work with her again and again. And the reason it made for such a great relationship is that she always approached client engagements with a true ownership mentality. In other words, she wasn't waiting for me to tell her what needed to be done. She was proactively saying, 'Hey, I had an idea. I have a suggestion. I think this would be really good.' She was pushing me sometimes."

Therefore, building a culture of open communication is critical as it allows both parties to be clear about what is expected from whom and the steps required for reaching the desired outcome. 

In this episode of YouShouldTalkTo, Becky McLaughlin, the director of marketing at WithMe, Inc., joins our host Daniel Weiner to discuss how she chooses agencies, what she sees as important for a good client-agency relationship, and share the best and worst experiences with agencies. 

Guest-at-a-Glance
💡 Name: Becky McLaughlin

💡 Company: WithMe, Inc.

💡 Noteworthy: Throughout her career of 15+ years, Becky has led high-performing teams, created high volumes of impactful marketing activities with minimal resources, and helped organizations generate millions in revenue through lead generation, strategic campaign development, and sales support activities. 

💡 Where to find Becky: LinkedIn

Key Insights
⚡ “I'm all for working with an agency.” In addition, during her 15-year career, Becky has worked with agencies of various sizes. She believes whenever a company doesn't have resources and people, it should turn to agency expertise. ''I have been the sole marketing rep in a few of those roles and then built teams from there — building teams of two, three, or four individuals where the agency support helped supplement for where the individuals on the team wouldn't be able to scale the efforts and bring in that expertise. So I've relied heavily on agencies throughout my career.''

⚡We must know what is expected from whom to reach the desired outcome. One of the essential things for Becky when working with an agency is that both parties agree on the budget and timeframe within which work must be done. Here's what else she expects, ''I'm looking for agencies that shine their expertise on what I'm looking to do. So, where is the technical expertise? Where are the Proofpoint cases? Do you have case studies? Can you show what you've done with a client similar to our company or a similar project you worked on?''

⚡“We must deliver what we forecast, which keeps me awake at night.” Although creative and rewarding at its core, marketing is a stressful field. As every company is unique, marketing departments face different challenges. Becky shares hers. ''Hitting the goals. We have these hefty goals of how many leads we will bring in, the volume of interest, and how we will get there. The Delta between the actuals and the goals is something that keeps me up at night.''

In this episode of YouShouldTalkTo, Alan gets into the difference between marketing for big brands and individual franchisees and how the marketing field has changed over the years. Alan and our host Daniel Weiner discuss agencies, positive and negative experiences with them, and challenges with agency relationships.

Guest-at-a-Glance

💡 Name: Alan Magee, VP of marketing at Empire Portfolio Group.

💡 Noteworthy: Alan got into marketing during high school. He eventually went to Clemson University and earned a bachelor's degree in marketing, followed by a master's degree in advertising from the University of Texas at Austin. After that, Alan entered the world of agencies. He went through the brand side, the strategic side of marketing, and the hospitality side and started moving into bigger and bigger organizations. 

💡 Where to find Alan: LinkedIn | Website

Key Insights

⚡ Marketing for individual franchisees is challenging. Franchise marketing is the process by which franchisors and franchisees use marketing strategies and tactics to attract new clients or customers and increase sales for their franchise organization. According to Alan, compared to marketing for a big brand, marketing for individual franchisees is a different challenge. "Every business is different, and fitness is a very unique business too, especially the boutique fitness area, where there's a lot of competition. There's a lot of change in behavior — what's happened with people, especially coming out of COVID, and what they're doing from a fitness perspective. So, it's fun. It's a good challenge. It's continuing to evolve, but I'd say my career has very much been a zigzag. If you look at it, you see that every time I move around, it's a zigzag. And that's very purposeful because every time I zig or zag, I want to add a couple more tools. I want to have a different experience, whether it's the size of the brand, the type of the brand, or the category." 

⚡ Specialized vs. generalist agencies. The marketing infrastructure has changed over the last few years. About 15 years ago, marketers were more generalist, and big brands turned to agencies of record. Today, however, they choose smaller independent agencies that are specialized. As Alan says, most brands may have a few specialist partners. "The market has gotten way more complex nowadays, whether we're talking about search, social, new media, Web3, development, or any of this stuff. It's gotten way more complex. There are so many channels; the channels went up 15X in the last five years. It gets more and more complicated. So brands are bringing in more subject matter experts into the business. And it's much more of a hybrid model. It's not as much of a generalist. It's much more hybrid, both ways. And so, brands are looking for more specific partners to fill the gaps on those things and to be the experts."

⚡The best agencies are proactive. Alan has a lot of agency experience — both positive and negative. Alan points out that every positive experience is first reflected in a good relationship. "I want you to be able to come to the table, be proactive, be asking those questions, be asking the why, and bringing value to our business. If I tease something out there, you should wanna jump on that and say, 'Hey, how can we help you with this? Here's what we can do.' I can always say, 'No, no, I don't need your help with it,' but I'm always looking for proactiveness."

But it takes patience to find the right agency to join forces with. In this episode of the YouShouldTalkTo podcast, our host Daniel Weiner welcomes Bulbul Hooda, the CMO of Vella Bio, to discuss the benefits of working with an external partner. They talk about the importance of trust, why you should always prepare project briefs, and what not to do at your first client meeting.

Guest-at-a-Glance

💡 Name: Bulbul Hooda

💡 Title: CMO

💡 Company: Vella Bio

💡 Noteworthy: As a Chief Marketing Officer, Bulbul is in charge of driving multimillion-dollar top-line growth for beauty and wellness startups by championing brand identity development, global product launches, and strategic channel partnerships. She also expands the scope of marketing operations by fostering customer-focused brand cultures.

💡 Where to find Bulbul: LinkedIn

Key Insights 

⚡Never compromise on your brand DNA. Every brand is unique, and so is yours. Your brand identity is how you position yourself in the market. And if you want to go far, you can't ever compromise on your branding. Bulbul talks about the importance of staying true to your brand DNA. She explains, "What we do is that we find methods to sort of go around all the restrictions. What we will not do and did not do is compromise on the language and the aesthetic of the brand because there has been so much misinformation about the category. So many nicknames given to anatomy that shouldn't have been, and we realized that, ‘Guys, we are in 2021, this is no way to talk about it.’ If we can't talk about it, how are we going to sell this?"

⚡An agency is the backbone of a brand's success. Working with an external agency can skyrocket your business and allow you to focus on what you do best. Instead of taking on too much responsibility, you can find a skilled agency to support you. Bulbul says, "I like this analogy a lot. Think about medicine. So if your stomach is upset, you're going to go to a gastro. If you have a heart problem, you're going to go to the cardiologist. If your mental health is not good, you're going to see a psychiatrist. And that, to me, is the specific job of agencies in the brand and marketing side of things. They are experts in their specialties."

⚡No two customers are the same. It's safe to say that your customers are your top priority. Your business wouldn't exist without them; it’s as simple as that. So, it's important to treat every single one of them the same. As Bulbul points out, it's all about personalization in business. Give every customer a personalized experience. She says, "For us, as marketers, no two customers are the same. It's the world we live in. It's customization and personalization. And I feel it's the same from an agency's perspective. No two companies are the same. They're definitely not looking for the same solutions."

In this episode of YouShouldTalkTo, Nicole Wojno Smith, VP of Marketing at Tackle, joins our host Daniel Weiner to discuss company-agency/freelancer relationships. Nicole shares her professional background and makes a comparison between working for an agency and being in a position that requires partnering with agencies. They also talk about the value of timely communication and how outsourcing — when well-thought-out — helps generate new perspectives and ideas. 


Guest-at-a-Glance

💡 Name: Nicole Wojno Smith

💡 What she does: Nicole is the VP of marketing at Tackle.

💡 Company: Tackle

💡 Noteworthy: Prior to joining Tackle, Nicole built and scaled the marketing team at two SaaS companies. 

💡 Where to find Nicole: LinkedIn


Key Insights

⚡ Your employees and partners are your brand's best advocates. It's clear why more and more companies invest in a culture that promotes collaboration, open communication, and trust. After all, if an employee or a partner feels valued and sees that their efforts matter, they will be motivated to devote themselves to a shared goal and spread the good word about your business. ''It's more important than ever that people build strong brands and [have] even stronger advocates who will talk about you and have a good experience with them. That's so valuable because people talk in these dark social communities, and you could lose a deal before you even get a chance to get to the plate.''

⚡Communicate, communicate, communicate. It may sound like a buzzword, but communication is key to fruitful collaborations. Regardless of the industry, whenever you — as an agency — work with a new client, you must ensure timely communication and availability via as many channels as possible. Nicole shares one of her team's best experiences with a certain agency to confirm this claim. ''They created a Slack channel for us. So we quickly communicated. They would do email updates and weekly calls. And when things got off track, it was flagged immediately, whether it was at our end or theirs. So they didn't wait for a call to tell us, which helped reduce friction.''

⚡Growing a business is exciting but demanding. Most business owners agree; but, it’s not just them. Everyone working in an executive position in a startup/early-stage company knows the pressure that comes with it. Here's what still keeps Nicole awake at night. ''I'm always thinking about the pipeline. We need more. How do we look at this across marketing, sales, and partners and think about everything we're doing and how can we grow this effectively? We have a big focus right now on developing more integrated campaigns. [...] It comes down to prioritization, efficiency, and how we all look at this across the board — so we can maximize our ROI and everything.''

In the first episode of YouShouldTalkTo, our host Daniel Weiner welcomes Cristy Garcia. Cristy is the CMO of impact.com, the leading partnership management platform supporting the full life cycle of any partnership.

Cristy and Daniel discuss what makes a good client-agency partnership, why big companies should consider partnering with smaller, independent agencies, and the most notable challenges marketers face today. 

Guest-at-a-Glance

💡 Name: Cristy Garcia

💡 What she does: Cristy is the CMO of Impact.

💡 Company: impact.com

💡 Noteworthy: Cristy's job as a CMO involves, as she explains, “driving pipeline bookings and brand awareness for the company, globally.''

💡 Where to find Cristy: LinkedIn