The Vertical Space

#115 Anders Forslund, Heart Aerospace: First flight of the world’s largest electric aircraft

Mon, 17 Aug 2026 16:00:00 -0400

In this episode we speak with Anders Forslund, founder and CEO of Heart Aerospace, which is building the ES-30, a clean-sheet 30-seat hybrid-electric regional airliner. We recorded two days after Heart flew its X1 demonstrator at Plattsburgh, the largest battery-electric aircraft flown to date, and about a year after the company closed its Swedish operations and consolidated in Los Angeles. Most of the conversation was about whether electrification changes regional economics enough to bring back a market that has been shrinking for forty years. The first flight used 85 kWh, roughly $5 of electricity, and Anders walks through how that scales to a 125 mile leg, why battery amortization is the bigger line item than the energy itself, and why 40% cheaper than a comparable ATR is the threshold where a stagnant market starts growing again.

From there we cover what X1 retires and what waits for the pre-production aircraft in 2028, how sensitive the 40% is to jet fuel and cycle life, who funds megawatt charging at regional airports, and what moving from Gothenburg cost in schedule and continuity. Anders walks through the certification plan, the twenty or so requirements unique to this airframe out of roughly 3,000, the not-for-credit testing philosophy he took from SpaceX, and the billion dollars to certification. There is more to come on the independent hybrid, which he was visibly biting his tongue about. Anders also makes an interesting argument about the lost generation, engineers in their forties who have never worked a clean-sheet program, and why reps rather than incumbency are what preserve the ability to build airplanes.

#114 Marc Allen, Electra.aero: Changing aviation without going vertical

Sun, 19 Jul 2026 02:00:00 -0400

In this episode we speak with Marc Allen, CEO of Electra.aero, which builds the EL9, a nine-passenger hybrid-electric aircraft that takes off and lands in roughly 150 feet using blown lift and distributed electric propulsion. Marc came from Boeing, where he was chief strategy officer and chaired Wisk, and took the CEO seat from founder John Langford in 2024. Most of the conversation was about whether a fixed-wing airplane can really get into helicopter-sized spaces while keeping the cost and reliability of a conventional airplane. Because the EL9 takes off on a wing at a thrust-to-weight ratio near 0.6 rather than lifting straight up, it keeps the payload and range that vertical-lift aircraft give away, at a fraction of their cost.

We also get into the harder questions underneath that case. The EL9 flies its approach below its power-off stall speed, which is close to the aerodynamic definition of powered lift, so we spend time on how it certifies as a conventional airplane under Part 23. We talk about how Electra sequences its three markets, with defense as the near-term launchpad ahead of commercial replacement and then direct aviation, and where the fly-by-wire and blown-lift technology still has to prove itself. Marc is candid throughout about what the aircraft is built to do and what it is not, and about how much rides on getting the EL9 from a flying prototype to a certified product.

#113 Andrew Clare, Elroy Air: Scaling Autonomous Cargo

Tue, 30 Jun 2026 18:00:00 -0400

In this episode we speak with Andrew Clare, CEO of Elroy Air, which builds the Chaparral, an autonomous hybrid-electric VTOL that hauls cargo in detachable pods for middle-mile commercial and defense logistics. Elroy is a 10-year-old company built on three then-unpopular bets: cargo over passengers, hybrid-electric over pure battery, and autonomous over piloted. Andrew, formerly CTO of Nuro, joined to turn that foundation into a scaled business, and the company has since demonstrated its transition flight, signed a US manufacturing deal with Kratos and a $200 million JV with Barq in the UAE, won a slot in the White House eVTOL Integration Pilot Program, and announced plans to go public near a billion-dollar valuation.

Most of the conversation was about what it takes to get from a working aircraft to a deployed logistics system, and why Andrew believes autonomous cargo scales well before passenger aviation. He argues one pod-based platform can serve a FedEx milk run, an Army resupply, and an ISR mission, that hybrid-electric is the only way to get useful payload and range without field charging infrastructure, and that defense demand is surging because contested logistics has become a requirement. We pushed on why a clean-sheet VTOL beats autonomy bolted onto a proven Caravan, how the automotive data-flywheel intuition transfers to a domain with far fewer cycles, and where the moat sits once hybrid-electric and autonomy are no longer contrarian. Andrew was most candid about the road ahead, from scaling production to hardening the aircraft for contested, GPS-denied operations alongside the Army.

#112 Lauren Flanagan, Sesame Solar: The fuel convoy is the target

Mon, 15 Jun 2026 13:00:00 -0400

In this episode we speak with Lauren Flanagan, CEO of Sesame Solar, which builds mobile nanogrids. The product is a self-contained unit that generates its own power from solar, batteries, and stored hydrogen, set up by one person in fifteen minutes. The company started in emergency response and extreme weather, and has moved increasingly into defense. The newer focus, and the one we spent most of the episode on, is using these nanogrids to refuel hydrogen drones in the field.

Most of the conversation was about whether that case holds up. Lauren's argument is that contested logistics have changed the math: fuel at the edge can run a thousand dollars a gallon all-in, the resupply convoy is a target, and the real cost is the lives spent guarding it, so making power where you stand becomes a strategic question rather than an efficiency one. We pushed on the parts that are harder to defend, the energy losses on the hydrogen path versus batteries, how thick the market for long-endurance hydrogen-powered flight actually is, and how you get from a fifty-day reserve to a six-month operational promise that's still backed by simulation rather than field data. Lauren was candid about what's proven and what isn't, and about which problems are physics and which are just adoption friction.

#111 Libby Bahat, Israel Civil Aviation Authority: Flying civilians into a war zone

Mon, 25 May 2026 13:00:00 -0400

Libby Bahat returns to The Vertical Space. Last time we talked to him about building an airspace for drones in peacetime. This time he's the regulator who decides whether a 777 full of people lands in a country under missile fire. As Head of the Aerial Infrastructure Department at the Israel Civil Aviation Authority, Libby is one of a small number of people anywhere who has had to build a quantitative framework, debris models, interception zones, penetration probabilities, that lets a civil aviation authority make its own war risk call. Most regulators don't have to do this. Israel does, and Libby is the guy.

We spent most of the conversation not on the war but on the judgment underneath it: where the numbers actually come from, how wide the error bars really are, the levers a CAA actually controls, the friendly-fire failure mode etc. Libby was honest about what he wishes he had ("I wish I had a criteria, like an engineer, very specific numbers") and about what he doesn't get to have. It's a rare look at how a serious regulator reasons when the only data point that would prove him wrong is the one he's organized his entire career to never see.

#110 Mike Stengel, AeroDynamic Advisory: Gulf crisis impact on air travel

Wed, 06 May 2026 12:00:00 -0400

We sat down with Mike Stengel of AeroDynamic Advisory to discuss what the US-Iran conflict is doing to aviation. The Middle East moves about 20% of global crude, and with the Strait of Hormuz closed and Gulf refining capacity damaged, jet fuel stocks in Asia-Pacific and Europe are drawing down while crack spreads widen in ways hedging contracts don't cover. Mike explains why US shale isn't the easy substitute, why Spirit just liquidated and JetBlue looks fragile, and why Delta's once-mocked Monroe refinery acquisition suddenly looks prescient.

The bigger question we get into is whether this is a temporary pricing event or a more permanent regime change? For the first time in decades, commercial, military, and business aviation are all riding supply-constrained tailwinds at once, but the industry spent 30 years optimizing for cheap energy and stable airspace. We dig into what fragility looks like when those assumptions break, aging fleets, narrowing corridors between unusable Middle East and Russian airspace, what the conflict is doing for SAF, and where the next contrarian bet might come from.

#109 Admiral Phil Kenul: What flying into hurricanes taught him about drone regulation

Mon, 20 Apr 2026 14:00:00 -0400

Admiral Phil Kenul spent decades flying NOAA aircraft into some of the most dangerous weather on earth, including multiple seasons as a P-3 Orion hurricane hunter, before transitioning into the world of UAS standards, where he now serves as Vice Chair of ASTM Committee F38. That path gives him a perspective on unmanned aviation that most people in the industry don't have. He's been the guy in the cockpit, the program manager trying to replace the cockpit with a Global Hawk, and now the person writing the standards that determine whether any of this scales commercially.

His take on the industry is refreshing. Technology, he argues, is no longer what's holding the drone industry back. Operations, regulatory approvals, and integration with legacy airspace systems are. He sees Part 108 as a genuine inflection point, one that will finally let operators fly by regulations and industry consensus standards rather than one-off waivers. But he's equally clear that getting there will take longer and cost more than most people expect, and that when the dust settles, success will go to the best operators, not the best aircraft.

#108 Alex List, FlyShirley: 'Shirley' there's an opportunity for AI in the flight deck

Tue, 17 Mar 2026 07:00:00 -0400

In this episode we sit down with Alex List, CEO and founder of FlyShirley, a startup building an AI copilot for the cockpit. Alex walks through what AI in aviation actually looks like today: the practical reality of a ground-based language model accessed via iPad helping pilots handle strategic, non-time-critical tasks like looking up service bulletins mid-flight, transcribing ATC clearances, finding alternates, and synthesizing information that would otherwise require a pilot to dig through a POH while managing weather and workload. He's candid about where the technology still falls short and articulates a clear architectural thesis: frontier intelligence lives on the ground, state management lives on the device, and a 56-kilobit connection is all you need in between.

The conversation broadens into the harder questions facing anyone building in this space: how do you design for pilot augmentation without creating dependency? How do you handle liability for an advisory system that is occasionally wrong? And how do you build a defensible business in a market that is, honestly, pretty small? Alex is refreshingly honest about the GA market math and where the real opportunity lies. The hosts bring their own investor and operator lens to the discussion, flagging the classic failure modes of aviation startups.

#107 Robert Rose, Reliable Robotics: Congressional testimony and conveyor belts in the sky

Tue, 17 Feb 2026 13:00:00 -0500

In this episode we reconnect with Robert Rose, CEO of Reliable Robotics, fresh off his testimony before Congress on the state of advanced air mobility. Robert shares what most people misunderstand about FAA certification, i.e. that the regulator isn't there to coach you through it, they're just calling balls and strikes. We explore why Reliable has spent eight years building autonomous systems within existing regulations rather than waiting for new rules, how they've convinced the FAA that zero-visibility automated landing standards can scale from wide-body jets down to Cessna Caravans, and why the "cargo first" narrative that dominates autonomy discussions is largely a regulatory myth.

We also dig into Reliable's new Pentagon contract to deploy autonomous cargo aircraft for contested logistics in the Indo-Pacific, what the military calls building "conveyor belts in the sky." Robert explains why military logistics actually demands commercial-grade safety in ways most people don't appreciate, how their solid-state radar technology became an unexpected multibillion-dollar opportunity for existing airlines, and what changed at the FAA after years of low morale and congressional scrutiny. It's a grounded, technically rigorous conversation about what it actually takes to certify autonomy, why operational risk assessments don't work for aircraft above a certain weight class, and how Reliable is grinding through hundreds of compliance submissions to prove that autonomy isn't some distant dream but it's ready now.

#106 Koen De Vos: U-Space, U-Space… Where Art Thou?

Tue, 03 Feb 2026 15:00:00 -0500

In this episode we sit down with Koen De Vos, Secretary General of GUTMA, to unpack why U-Space still feels more aspirational than operational, and what aviation can learn from industries that have at least partially managed to digitize at scale. Drawing on parallels with the automotive sector, Koen explores how green technologies, automation, and system-level thinking could, and should, reshape aviation if the institutional and political pieces ever align.

We dive into why U-Space has not meaningfully materialized in Europe yet, the evolving role of regulators like EASA, and how European and US approaches to UTM diverge in both philosophy and execution. Koen also shares his perspective on air risk mitigation, whether U-Space is being used as a safety crutch, and perhaps most provocatively, who is actually willing to pay for UTM and why many business cases quietly fall apart. A clear-eyed conversation about political will, practical constraints, and what UTM might look like if we were brave enough to start from scratch.

#105 Ben Ivers, Boeing: Airspace modernization

Tue, 16 Dec 2025 11:00:00 -0500

In this episode, we sit down with Ben Ivers (Boeing’s Director of Emerging Technologies & Regulatory Strategy) to unpack a deceptively simple idea: airspace modernization isn’t optional anymore and the tech to enable “automated flight rules” (AFR) is largely ready today. Ben argues the hard part isn’t the technology, but introducing a new flight mode alongside VFR and IFR that can scale drones, eVTOLs, and future autonomous operations without turning the sky into sanitized corridors reserved for “new entrants.” He explains why Boeing is forced to think in decades and why action now matters if modernization isn’t to remain perpetually out of reach.

We get practical on what AFR actually means: less “AI making decisions,” more machine-guided coordination built on trusted data exchange and automated conflict management. Ben connects AFR to UTM/U-space (“crawl, walk, run”), walks through “before vs after” scenarios across GA, airlines, drones, and urban air mobility, and pinpoints the real bottlenecks, i.e. reliable communications, latency, surveillance, micro-weather, and certified digital services. We close on where value may accrue in a digitized airspace: new third-party services, higher throughput, and an “additive” roadmap that grows the aviation ecosystem rather than excluding parts of it.

#104 Edward Barraclough, Drone-Hand: Why ranching will scale autonomy before defense

Thu, 04 Dec 2025 10:00:00 -0500

Autonomy may scale in agriculture long before it does in defense or UAM, and today’s guest makes a compelling case why. We speak with Edward Barraclough, founder and CEO of Drone-Hand, about applying autonomous drones and on-device AI to the realities of livestock operations across Australia, New Zealand, North America, and beyond.

Edward explains why ranching is the perfect proving ground for autonomy: massive land areas, urgent labor shortages, permissive operating environments, and ROI that’s measured in days - not years. We explore how drones are already replacing helicopters on million-acre cattle stations, why biological data creates one of the deepest moats in autonomy, the role of trust and repeatability for producers, and how CASA’s regulatory evolution compares to FAA and EASA. It’s a rare look at autonomy where economics, biology, and geography collide.

#103 Ed Bastian, Delta Air Lines: Raising the ceiling of possibility

Thu, 30 Oct 2025 03:00:00 -0400

In this episode, Delta Air Lines CEO Ed Bastian breaks down what truly differentiates a great airline: people and culture. Ed shares why “take care of your people first” isn’t a slogan (it’s Delta’s operating system!) and how that shows up in reliability, premium customer experience, and everyday leadership. We get a candid look at running a 100,000-person, 5,000-flights-a-day operation; the metrics he checks first (on-time arrivals and cash); and why accessibility and listening are his non-negotiables as a leader.

We also dive into Delta’s broader vision: a connected, premium travel ecosystem that spans free fast Wi-Fi and new entertainment partnerships to deeper integrations with Uber, Wheels Up and, soon, eVTOL links with Joby. Ed frames AI as “augmented intelligence” that empowers frontline teams, outlines how Delta thinks about fortress balance sheets and long-cycle bets, and makes the case that air travel isn’t a commodity but an experience people will choose and pay for. Founders will appreciate his clear wishlist of problems to solve in ops efficiency, maintenance, and crew utilization, and his invitation to bring real solutions, not just ideas.

#102 Adam Woodworth, Wing: What aviation looks like at Google scale

Tue, 21 Oct 2025 07:00:00 -0400

Adam Woodworth, CEO of Wing (Alphabet’s drone delivery company), joins us to talk about making delivery ubiquitous and why drones should be an equal player alongside other delivery methods. Adam argues we’ve already passed the “risk peak” for UAS integration: the industry now has the operational data to validate safety targets, and the safest path is to fly more because drone trips displace riskier car trips. He traces Wing’s journey from Google X to Part 135 air carrier, the shift from “drone company” to “delivery company,” and what’s changed in the last 18 months as regulatory processes became predictable enough to plan and scale.

We go inside Wing’s growth flywheel in Dallas: ~20 locations, 100k+ deliveries last quarter, and days approaching 2,000 orders. Plus partnerships with DoorDash and Walmart, expansion to Charlotte and new metros, and lessons from Australia and the UK (including hospital logistics). Adam shares why noise complaints dropped after design and routing changes, how one pilot can now oversee dozens of aircraft, and what Part 108 should fix to keep progress moving. We close on the big claim: within a decade, drone delivery can handle the majority of last-mile demand.

#101 Ryan Gury, PDW: Drones, Innovation, and Lady Gaga

Thu, 09 Oct 2025 14:00:00 -0400

Welcome to episode 101 of The Vertical Space. In this conversation, we sit down with Ryan Gury, Co-founder and CEO of Performance Drone Works (PDW). Ryan argues that “commercial is eating aerospace,” and shows why the center of gravity has shifted from exquisite programs to fast iteration, modular hardware, and drones treated as munitions. We dig into lessons from Ukraine, why precision from a foxhole beats posture from a ridge line and what “velocity + iteration” really means for design, manufacturing, and doctrine.

We also unpack the RF war: proliferated jamming, fiber-tethered ops, directional links and why legacy radio assumptions break down at the edge. Ryan contrasts automation vs. true autonomy, swarming myths vs. realities, and the coming wave of sleeper robotics. He shares PDW’s playbook: veteran-led product development, the C100 mothership, and building to BOM and scale. Plus a frank take on how procurement and a DoD “marketplace” must evolve.

#100 Chris Hewlett, Project ULTRA: Why DoD will lead UAS integration

Thu, 25 Sep 2025 07:00:00 -0400

In this 100th episode, we sit down with Chris Hewlett, former Navy Commander and Director of Project Ultra, for a candid conversation about the realities of UAS integration. Chris challenges the industry’s rush toward community-based traffic management and questions whether UTM, as commonly envisioned, can ever deliver safe and scalable integration. He argues instead that the Department of Defense, through rigorous test, evaluation, and rapid operational deployment, will set the standard for comprehensive UAS integration - a framework that will ultimately spill over into commercial use.

We cover the lessons from Project Ultra on verification, validation, and operational test and evaluation (OT&E) of unmanned systems, FAA’s Part 108, and why shortcuts and theory aren’t enough for safe airspace integration.

#99 Jia Xu, SkyGrid: Opening the sky for autonomous flight

Tue, 09 Sep 2025 11:00:00 -0400

In this episode, we welcome back Jia Xu, CEO of SkyGrid, to discuss the future of autonomy and shared airspace. SkyGrid is building a trusted airspace and operational integration platform to enable safe, secure, and efficient autonomous flight.

Jia highlights where the main bottlenecks and complexities exist across autonomy, advanced air mobility, and shared airspace, and how the industry can move forward. We cover regulatory frameworks such as Part 108 and Part 146, the role of data services, and how SkyGrid is positioning its technology and products to help enable safer and more efficient aviation.

#98 Ryan Graves, ASA: UAPs as a wake-up call for airspace safety and innovation

Wed, 06 Aug 2025 13:00:00 -0400

Ryan Graves is a former U.S. Navy F/A-18F pilot and the first active-duty pilot to publicly report regular UAP sightings. In this episode, we explore what these encounters reveal about gaps in our airspace sensing and safety infrastructure, and where the opportunities lie for better detection, data analysis, and aerospace innovation. Ryan also shares insights from his work at Americans for Safe Aerospace and AIAA, where he’s helping bring scientific rigor and policy attention to a long-overlooked issue.

#97 Julie Garland, Avtrain: Drone business and regulation in Europe

Thu, 17 Jul 2025 15:00:00 -0400

In this episode we’re joined by Julie Garland, CEO of Avtrain, for a deep dive into the current state of the drone industry and regulation across Europe. Julie shares her perspective on why societal acceptance is just as critical as regulatory approval. We explore how operators like Manna are working to normalize drone activity and influence regulations, and why simplifying regulatory frameworks, including the SORA process, is essential to enable broader adoption of drone operations.

The conversation also sheds light on the limited number of authorized SAIL III operations across EASA member states and the challenges operators face in meeting technical validation requirements, often by building their own aircraft. Julie walks us through promising commercial use cases, from consumer delivery to infrastructure inspection to airport operations, and outlines how digitization and standardization could unlock more scalable, efficient drone deployments.

#96 Chad Sweet, ModalAI: Small, smarter, safer UAS - made in USA

Thu, 03 Jul 2025 09:00:00 -0400

In this episode, Chad Sweet, co-founder and CEO of ModalAI, joins us to explore the evolving drone landscape and what’s driving the next wave of innovation. Chad shares his perspective on the rising importance of FPV (first-person view) technology - especially in military and public safety applications - and why user experience, including ease of flight and high-quality video streaming, will be a key competitive edge going forward.

We also dive into ModalAI’s strategic partnership with Qualcomm and the company’s focus on developing NDAA-compliant, AI-powered components that enable autonomy and advanced perception in small UAS. Chad offers insight into ModalAI’s product development philosophy and how the drone industry has matured over the past decade.

#95 Serhii Kupriienko, Swarmer: Building swarms in Ukraine’s drone war

Tue, 17 Jun 2025 10:00:00 -0400

Drone swarms are no longer science fiction - they're becoming one of the most disruptive technologies on the modern battlefield. In this episode, we speak with Serhii Kupriienko, founder and CEO of Swarmer, a Ukrainian startup building autonomous swarming capabilities for drones operating in the harshest conditions: GPS-denied, communications-jammed, and under fire.

We dive deep into how drone warfare has evolved in Ukraine, the maturation - and limitations - of FPV drone tech, and what true “swarming” really means. Serhii shares lessons from the frontlines of defense innovation, explains why adoption of new technologies can be both urgent and constrained, and lays out the challenges of building autonomous, coordinated robotic systems in real-world environments. We also touch on counter-UAS and the broader Ukrainian startup ecosystem.

#94 Brandon Suarez, Reliable Robotics: Balancing safety and operational benefits

Wed, 04 Jun 2025 11:00:00 -0400

In this episode, we welcome back Brandon Suarez from Reliable Robotics, more than three years after his first appearance. Brandon leads the development of technical standards and global aviation policy, and this return visit offers a valuable perspective on how the aviation industry has evolved, and in some ways, diverged from expectations. The conversation centers on the implementation of automation in aviation and its operational and safety benefits, especially for general aviation. Brandon makes a compelling case that improving safety isn’t just a benefit of automation, it’s a prerequisite for aviation growth. He addresses persistent issues like the stagnant GA safety record and explains why relying solely on the pilot is no longer sufficient.

The episode dives deep into topics such as the future of digital flight decks, the lessons learned from the rollout of ADS-B, and how these inform the potential deployment of ACAS-X. Brandon also touches on the transformative role of connectivity solutions like Starlink and highlights the urgent need for leadership and vision in U.S. aviation policy. From radically different aircraft architectures to third-party service providers, this episode is packed with thoughtful insights.

#93 Joey Rios, NASA and UTM: Solve Something Right Now

Tue, 20 May 2025 06:00:00 -0400

In this episode we sit down with Dr. Joey Rios, Chief Technologist for the Aviation Systems Division at NASA Ames Research Center, for a discussion on the evolution of Unmanned Aircraft Systems Traffic Management (UTM). Joey takes us through the early days of UTM development, reflecting on the foundational principles, the initial use cases, and how the vision has evolved over time. We dive deep into the challenges of airspace design, the reasoning behind the U.S. federated model, and how it compares to other global approaches. Joey also shares his perspective on current operations, including the Dallas Operational Evaluation site and how safe BVLOS operations at scale might evolve within and outside of the Mode C veil.

#92 Richard Aboulafia: Supply chain bottlenecks and the New Aerospace Order

Tue, 06 May 2025 10:00:00 -0400

Welcome back to The Vertical Space for our second conversation with Richard Aboulafia, an insightful voice on all things aerospace and defense. This episode dives deeper than ever into the aerospace and defense supply chain: globalization, vulnerabilities, titanium, rare earth elements, and why Tier 1 integrators may be losing their place in the industry.

We explore how shifting geopolitics, material dependencies, and evolving national strategies are redrawing the map of the aerospace and defense industrial base. Richard breaks down why Europe is accelerating its push for industrial sovereignty, how China’s role in rare earths and Russia's role in titanium are creating ripple effects, and what the decline of Tier 1 integrators means for the rest of the industry. We also unpack the promise of Collaborative Combat Aircraft, new defense spending priorities, and ATC modernization. This is a wide-ranging and nuanced discussion on the forces disrupting aerospace as we know it, and where the opportunities lie in the new aerospace order.

#91 George Mattson, Wheels Up: The integrated customer experience

Thu, 01 May 2025 12:00:00 -0400

In this episode, we sit down with George Mattson, CEO of Wheels Up, for a conversation about leading one of the most recognized brands in private aviation. George shares his perspective on building Wheels Up into an aviation solutions company and what sets their model apart in a competitive industry. With his background on the board of Delta Airlines, he offers a unique lens on integrating commercial and private aviation to create a seamless customer experience.

We explore the current landscape of private aviation, its opportunities, headwinds, and the strategic thinking behind Wheels Up’s direction. George also opens up about the realities of being a CEO in aviation: what a typical day looks like, how his expectations have evolved, and what leadership means in this fast-moving space. The conversation wraps with his outlook on the future of aviation, including thoughts on advanced air mobility and where innovation is headed.

#90 Chris Gentile, Merlin: Inside the race for trusted tactical autonomy

Tue, 08 Apr 2025 07:00:00 -0400

In this episode we sit down with Chris Gentile, General Manager for Tactical Autonomy at Merlin, for an in-depth look at the evolving role of autonomy in defense. Chris outlines the value proposition of autonomy as a tool, not a standalone product, and discusses the principles of a modular, hybrid, and hierarchical architecture design in building robust autonomous systems. We explore how recent milestones in trusted autonomy are reshaping military strategy and capability, and how the technology must evolve alongside certification requirements and operational realities.

Chris also shares his personal journey into the field and offers a nuanced perspective on current use cases driving demand for autonomy. The conversation also touches on the cultural and organizational barriers to adoption, two autonomy schools of thought, air superiority in the age of autonomy, best practices for developing autonomous systems, visual language models, data challenges and startup opportunities.

#89 Christian Ramsey, uAvionix: Tackling aviation safety from drones to airports

Tue, 25 Mar 2025 09:00:00 -0400

Welcome back to a conversation with Christian Ramsey, Chief Commercial Officer of uAvionix. Christian last joined us in 2022, and now, almost three years later, we revisit his predictions to see what played out as expected, and what didn’t.

We kick things off with Remote ID: why it was selected, why it has failed to meet expectations, and how prioritizing low-cost implementation led to major performance shortcomings.

Next, we get a masterclass on ADS-B, starting with its origins, benefits, and drawbacks. While ADS-B was expected to revolutionize airspace management, we discuss the objections to its adoption, the risks of partial equipage, and whether it has truly delivered on its promise of improving aviation safety. Christian also highlights unintended consequences that have emerged from partial equipage.

We then shift to ADS-B and drones, exploring its role in detect-and-avoid systems, non-cooperative traffic detection, and specific use cases like agricultural spraying. As more drones integrate into controlled airspace, we debate the need for certified avionics and how aviation safety can be improved without overburdening the industry.

Christian also shares insights into the FAA’s Surface Awareness Initiative, the push for low-cost airport surface monitoring, and broader industry trends in UAS and general aviation.

#88 Captain Lee Moak: The time for change is now

Wed, 12 Mar 2025 02:00:00 -0400

In this episode, we sit down with Captain Donald Lee Moak, a distinguished aviation leader. With experience spanning military and commercial aviation to boardroom leadership, Lee is known for driving change. He doesn’t just talk about change; he makes it happen.

Our discussion centers on three major themes: the urgent need to modernize and privatize the U.S. air traffic control (ATC) system to enhance safety and efficiency, lessons from aviation’s strong safety record, and the recent rise in incidents that Lee has warned about in op-eds and reports. We also dive into his tenure as president of the Airline Pilots Association, his insights on union and non-union leadership, and his advice for aviation CEOs and entrepreneurs navigating today’s challenges.

Lee doesn’t shy away from tough conversations, whether it’s advocating for regulatory reform, calling out safety risks, or pushing for leadership that truly prioritizes aviation’s future. From the bullhorn to the boardroom, he’s been at the forefront of meaningful change.

#87 Arnaud Thiercelin, Orqa: Cutting through the gimmicks and winning the drone marathon

Tue, 25 Feb 2025 17:00:00 -0500

In this episode, we sit down with Arnaud Thiercelin, Chief Product Officer at Orqa, for a bold and eye-opening conversation about the present and future of drones and mobile robotics. Arnaud challenges the status quo, urging listeners to think beyond gimmicks and focus on delivering real value to end users. From FPV drones neutralizing M1 Abrams tanks to the West’s struggle to produce a viable DJI competitor, he doesn’t shy away from controversy. He calls out the industry's missteps and offers sharp insights into what it will take to reclaim leadership in drone and robotics innovation.

Beyond military applications, this episode explores the broader implications of mobile robotics across commercial markets. Arnaud discusses the critical gaps in the Western drone supply chain, the challenges of building a defensible company, and the next major competitive battleground in drone technology. He also shares his vision for integrating drones into enterprise ecosystems and the rapid expansion of drone use cases.

#86 Carey Cannon: 38 years of rotorcraft development – insights from a Bell Senior Chief Engineer

Tue, 11 Feb 2025 06:00:00 -0500

In this episode, retired Senior Chief Engineer Carey Cannon shares his 38-year journey at Bell Helicopter, talking about the realities of developing and deploying vertical lift aircraft. He discusses why many eVTOL manufacturers underestimate the time and cost required, why getting in the air is the easy part, and the enduring principles of helicopter design. Carey reflects on key programs like the V280 and EagleEye, the technology gaps he encountered, and the biggest technical and commercial hurdles eVTOLs must overcome. He also explores why traditional helicopter OEMs are cautious about eVTOLs and why few startups will survive the transition to electrified passenger transport.

#85 Sean Donohue, DFW Airport: A CEO's perspective on running a global airport

Tue, 28 Jan 2025 10:00:00 -0500

In this episode we dive into an engaging conversation with Sean Donohue, CEO of Dallas Fort Worth International Airport (DFW). The discussion covers a broad range of topics such as the significant role of travel and tourism in the global economy, the strategies of introducing new technologies in aviation, and the operational priorities of running one of the world's largest airports. Sean provides insights into the complexities of balancing demand and supply in air traffic, his perspective on the privatization of air traffic control and airports, and DFW's extensive capital and technology investments aimed at future-proofing the airport. Additionally, Sean talks about DFW's role as an economic engine, the impact of car services like Uber and Lyft, biometrics in enhancing security and customer experience, digital twin technology, and the potential integration of autonomous vehicles and eVTOLs.

#84 Jenn Player, Skydio: Autonomous drone operations

Wed, 08 Jan 2025 14:00:00 -0500

In this episode, we sit down with Jenn Player, Vice President of Global Aviation Regulatory Affairs at Skydio and a leading voice in the drone industry, for a deep dive into autonomous drone operations. We start by unpacking the concept of electronic conspicuity and its potential to enable a fully cooperative shared airspace. Drawing from her experience flying larger UAS with the Air Force Research Lab and BNSF, Jenn shares why detect-and-avoid challenges in controlled airspace prompted her shift toward smaller, highly automated drones operating close to obstacles - a shift that ultimately led her to Skydio and her mission to "unlock the dock."

Jenn provides an insider’s look at the evolution of drone docks, their operationalization, and their transformative potential. She also introduces the compelling vision of “zero-to-many” operations, where drones independently handle missions with minimal human intervention. Along the way, we explore the state of the drone market, comparing the civil commercial and defense sectors, and close with Jenn’s practical advice for entrepreneurs navigating this fast-evolving space.

#83 Amit Ganjoo, ANRA: Lessons from the Dallas Key Site UTM implementation

Fri, 03 Jan 2025 10:00:00 -0500

Welcome to 2025! In this episode, we sit down with Amit Ganjoo, the Founder and CEO of ANRA Technologies, a global leader in UAS Traffic Management (UTM). This conversation explores Amit’s vision for an integrated airspace and the critical steps required to make it a reality. We delve into the role of AI in UTM and ATM, touching on the controversies surrounding its use. Amit shares insights on the differences between the U.S. federated model and the centralized approaches used globally, offering a nuanced perspective on the evolution of UTM.

We also take a deep dive into the Dallas-Fort Worth operational evaluation, the first commercial deployment of UTM in the U.S., where ANRA plays a key role as a UTM service provider. This collaborative effort, involving companies like Manna and Wing, informs the FAA's BVLOS policy decisions. Amit provides valuable lessons learned, particularly on UTM business models, exploring the pros and cons of insourced versus outsourced UTM services and their viability.

#82 Bobby Sakaki, UAS Nexus: Drone industrial base, NDAA, Blue UAS

Mon, 16 Dec 2024 20:00:00 -0500

In this episode, we sit down with Bobby Sakaki, an expert in small UAS technology and CEO of UAS Nexus. Bobby shares his insights on the critical role drones play in defense, particularly in light of their impact in Ukraine, and highlights concerns about the lack of a strong and coordinated U.S. and Western industrial base for affordable, competitive drone components. He explores the challenges facing the drone industry, including engineering, supply chain limitations, raising capital, and scaling manufacturing capabilities.

Bobby talks about the National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA), the Blue UAS program, and MOSA (Modular Open Systems Approach), explaining their importance in ensuring secure and reliable drone technology while addressing differences and challenges in implementation. He provides a breakdown of the drone technology stack (autopilots, radios, payloads, batteries, motors, ESCs and other components) and discusses the need for Western alternatives to Chinese suppliers. Bobby also shares insights from his recent trip to Europe, contrasting the region’s pace of innovation and fundraising environment with the U.S. The conversation wraps up with his predictions for the next five years in the drone industry, the use cases likely to emerge, and his picks for the top five companies making significant strides in the space.

#81 Brian Streem, Vermeer: An American founder’s move to Ukraine to build drone tech

Wed, 11 Dec 2024 16:00:00 -0500

In this episode, we speak with Brian Streem, Founder and CEO of Vermeer, about his journey from film production to pioneering drone technology in Ukraine’s defense ecosystem. Brian shares why he relocated to Kyiv, how he navigates the challenges of building advanced technology in a warzone, and the surprising ways it boosted his credibility with U.S. and European partners. We explore Vermeer’s Visual Positioning System, the competitive drone market, and Brian’s unique approach to solving problems, starting with listening to customers. It’s a candid, insightful discussion you won’t want to miss.

#80 Joerg Dittrich, JARUS & DLR: Drones, risk, and SORA 3.0

Thu, 21 Nov 2024 12:00:00 -0500

In this episode, we sit down with Joerg Dittrich, a leading expert in drone regulations and one of the minds behind the SORA framework. Joerg shares insights on the evolution of drone integration, the development of the specific drone category, and how safety and risk management shape modern drone operations. We explore topics like air risk assessment, drone delivery, drones in agriculture, UTM, and the transformative potential of drones in complex environments. Tune in for a deep dive into the future of unmanned aviation and the regulatory innovations making it possible.

#79 Bob Poole, Reason Foundation: The pros and cons of privatizing airports

Wed, 06 Nov 2024 12:00:00 -0500

In this episode we welcome Bob Poole, Director of Transportation Policy and the Searle Freedom Trust Transportation Fellow at the Reason Foundation, who brings his expertise on the complex and often debated topic of airport privatization. We discuss the pros and cons of privatizing airports, examining the potential value to various stakeholders, including government, investors and passengers. As Bob explains, privatization has transformed airports globally, boosting efficiency, revenue potential, and customer service in certain cases. Yet, the U.S. remains an outlier. He explores the reasons why, including unique legal and regulatory constraints, and what the implications might be if U.S. airports followed the global trend.

#78 Montie Brewer: Interview with former Air Canada CEO

Tue, 22 Oct 2024 07:00:00 -0400

In this episode we’re joined by Montie Brewer, former President and CEO of Air Canada, who provides a glimpse into the airline industry from the vantage point of a major airline leader. Montie draws on his experience as a CEO to share insights into how airlines make decisions about their networks and approach technology adoption. For entrepreneurs hoping to break into this space, Montie offers great advice, explaining how airlines, under the scrutiny of passengers, shareholders, and sustainability goals, make or break the technologies you're developing. He stresses that for airlines, decisions are data-driven and focused on clear returns, demanding solutions that enhance operational efficiency and financial performance.

Speaking from the perspective of someone who led a major airline, Montie talks about challenges such as balancing airline schedules with operational performance, predicting block times well in advance, and navigating the complexities of IT upgrades. Montie's reflections, combined with his personal passion for aviation, make this episode a must-listen for anyone looking to navigate the airline industry.

#77 Charlton Evans, End State Solutions: Drone boxes, FAA waivers and exemptions, Part 108

Mon, 07 Oct 2024 23:00:00 -0400

In this episode, we dive into the FAA's evolving approach to approving waivers and exemptions for complex drone operations, including beyond visual line of sight (BVLOS), 1:many operations, and broadly airspace integration over the past 18 months. Joining us again is Charlton Evans, a trusted expert in FAA drone regulations, who last appeared on episode #35.

Charlton explains the significant shift in how drone OEMs and operators approach the type certification requirement in the U.S. Traditionally, the process involved going through the FAA's Durability & Reliability (D&R) process, which often took four to five years, as seen with companies like Matternet and Percepto. However, since mid-2023, the FAA has introduced a streamlined 44807 type certification exemption process through the Flight Standards Office, focusing on self-declaration. Charlton walks us through this new process, notable waivers, and his expectations for the upcoming Part 108 rulemaking.

We also explore the growing adoption of drone-in-a-box systems, particularly following DJI’s launch of the DJI Dock 2, and finish with a discussion on AI use cases in general aviation.

#76 General James Poss: Affordable Mass and Counter-UAS

Wed, 25 Sep 2024 00:00:00 -0400

Two years ago, we hosted Gen. James Poss to discuss the evolution of drone technologies, their adoption in the U.S. military, and their early use in the war in Ukraine. With significant advancements since then - especially in Ukraine's use of drones - we invited Gen. Poss back to focus on counter-UAS strategies and the concept of attritable mass, including the USAF's major program, the Collaborative Combat Aircraft. We explore various counter-UAS technologies, such as missiles, lasers, drone interceptors, and electronic warfare, in the framework of mobility, survivability, magazine depth and cost per shot considerations.

The discussion also delves into the Collaborative Combat Aircraft program, which aims to restore mass as a military advantage. While the concept of "attritable mass" is not new, we explore why it's vital now and how it compares to past conflicts. Additionally, we examine the role of small UAS in the war in Ukraine, their impact on both offense and defense, and how the U.S. is adapting based on these lessons. Gen. Poss shares his valuable insights from his 30-year military career and leadership in UAS development, highlighting the exciting innovations reshaping modern warfare.

#75 Kevin Noertker, Ampaire: Scaling electric aviation with hybrid-electric flight

Wed, 11 Sep 2024 01:00:00 -0400

In this episode of The Vertical Space, we sit down with Kevin Noertker, Co-founder and CEO of Ampaire, to explore the evolving landscape of electric aviation. Kevin shares his perspective on the industry's progress and challenges, particularly in relation to battery development and the delayed timelines for fully electric vehicles. We explore the differences between battery-only and hybrid propulsion, highlighting the advantages and limitations of both technologies. Kevin explains why hybrid propulsion is seeing faster advancements and why it might be the preferred choice for regional air mobility operators. We also discuss the broader implications of electrification on regional air travel, weighing the benefits and drawbacks of electric, hybrid, and traditional aircraft in this space. Finally, Kevin shares valuable advice for entrepreneurs and innovators in the space.

#74 Rob Britton: "Commercial Aviation and AAM: Prudent Optimism"

Thu, 29 Aug 2024 15:00:00 -0400

In this episode, we sit down with Dr. Rob Britton, Principal of AirLearn, who brings five decades of experience in commercial aviation. This fascinating conversation covers the history and future of the airline business, the significance of the hub-and-spoke model, the realities of aviation sustainability, and the challenges and opportunities for advanced and regional air mobility. Throughout the discussion, we explore the enduring value of aviation, the power of market forces, and the critical need for innovation, all wrapped in a spirit of prudent optimism. Whether you're in the industry or just passionate about flight, this episode is one you won't want to miss.

#73 Jeff Luckett, UPS Flight Forward: An inside perspective on early adoption of UAS and AAM in cargo

Tue, 13 Aug 2024 09:00:00 -0400

Welcome back to The Vertical Space! In this episode, we’re thrilled to bring you a conversation with Jeff Luckett, President and founding member of UPS Flight Forward, a subsidiary of UPS. Since our podcast's inception in 2021, we’ve featured numerous OEMs and service providers from both advanced air mobility and traditional aviation. However, it’s not often that we get to hear directly from the buyers and industry leaders driving the demand for these cutting-edge technologies. Today, we dive deep with one of the key figures in the industry.

Jeff shares his journey leading UPS Flight Forward, where he’s been instrumental in evaluating over 850 different companies to identify those best suited to meet UPS’s unique challenges and opportunities. He reveals the criteria used to differentiate the companies that made the cut from those that didn’t, offering advice to any company looking to collaborate with major players like UPS.

Throughout our conversation, we explore the crucial role of cargo-centric operations in the future of advanced air mobility. Jeff discusses why he believes the cargo market is poised to materialize more significantly in the near term compared to the passenger taxi market. He also emphasizes the importance of understanding the specific needs of organizations like UPS when marketing new technologies and services.

Jeff delves into the operational aspects, explaining why what happens on the ground is just as vital as what occurs in the air. We discuss the anticipated timeline for the introduction and scaling of future aircraft within UPS, UPS’s approach to insourcing versus outsourcing, and his thoughts on integrating new aircraft into the National Airspace System (NAS).

#72 Srdjan Kovacevic, Orqa: The evolution of drones, vertical integration, and competing with DJI

Sat, 27 Jul 2024 17:00:00 -0400

In this episode, we’re excited to host Srdjan Kovacevic, CEO and co-founder of Orqa. Despite a low public profile, this Croatian team has made significant waves, initially through ultra-low latency FPV goggles for drone racing and now by building their own drones through a fully vertically integrated model. This strategy not only optimizes cost and performance but also positions Orqa as a strong Western alternative to DJI.

Srdjan discusses his view that hardware in the small drone industry is far from commoditized, emphasizing its critical role in achieving optimal performance. He traces this misconception to the early consumer drone market and examines DJI’s innovation-driven dominance. Our conversation explores the benefits and challenges of vertical integration versus system integration, with insights into its impact on ultra-low latency video links. We also delve into how market dynamics and geopolitical events like the war in Ukraine are shaping the drone industry, and Srdjan shares his thoughts on FPV systems, their modern warfare applications, and future drone technology developments.

#71 Libby Bahat, Israeli Civil Aviation Authority: Lessons learned from the Israeli National Drone Initiative

Mon, 15 Jul 2024 21:00:00 -0400

Welcome back to The Vertical Space! In this episode, we sit down with Libby Bahat, Head of the Aerial Infrastructure Department of the Israeli Civil Aviation Authority. Join us as we delve into what makes Israeli airspace unique, given its position as one of the most threatened airspaces in the world.

We explore the Israel National Drone Initiative: its origins, surprising initiators, and current results. Learn about the costs of drone operations in Israel compared to other regions, and listen to Libby's "1, 10, 100" concept related to drone profitability.

Discover how drones are used and managed in Israel, particularly in the context of the ongoing conflict. We discuss the evaluations of advanced air mobility that have taken place in Israel, and which aspects are scaling today. Find out what elements Libby sees scaling in the coming years and what he's most impressed with in advanced air mobility today.

#70 Bobby Healy, Manna: Unveiling the unit economics behind profitable drone delivery

Tue, 02 Jul 2024 07:00:00 -0400

Welcome back to The Vertical Space! In this episode, we reconnect with Bobby Healy, CEO and Founder of Manna Drone Delivery. Bobby returns to discuss how Manna has not only met but exceeded initial expectations over the past two years. He dives deep into the details of Manna's unit economics, revealing how they achieve profitability with every flight, even when delivering a single cup of coffee.

Bobby provides insights into the evolution of drone delivery over the past two years. He reflects on initial assumptions versus actual outcomes, highlighting pleasant surprises, disappointments, and his vision for the future. He emphasizes the economic viability of drone delivery, contrasting B2C and B2B strategies and sharing insights on market dynamics.

Moreover, Bobby challenges the status quo of road-based logistics, advocating for a future where drones dominate last-mile deliveries. He also outlines his vision for advancing air mobility beyond drone delivery, offering compelling insights into future industry investments.

#69 David Stepanek, Bristow: A philosophical guide for early AAM operations

Wed, 19 Jun 2024 14:00:00 -0400

We are happy to welcome back David Stepanek, Executive Vice President and Chief Transformation Officer of Bristow. With his extensive experience and pragmatic insights, David provides a comprehensive view of the evolution and future of advanced air mobility. In this episode, we revisit earlier impressions and assumptions, exploring how they have matured over time. For those who have approached this field with caution and realism, this discussion validates your strategy and offers valuable new perspectives.

David and his team have authored "A Philosophical Guide For Early Operations," offering a thoughtful roadmap for deploying advanced air mobility. As early adopters and implementers, David and Bristow's insights carry significant weight. He emphasizes the advantage of experience in vertical flight and operations for evaluating and scaling this technology.

You'll hear David's summary of the guide, his five-point thesis, observations on health management and flight operational data, the importance of experience in bringing technology to the aviation market, and reflections on how initial assumptions have held up or changed.

Link to the Guide:
https://d1io3yog0oux5.cloudfront.net/_2417d02d32e4b0be3f7af9f8cd89487a/bristowgroup/files/pages/services/advanced-air-mobility/AAM_Philosophical_Guide.pdf

#68 Don Berchoff, TruWeather: Weather imposes uncertainty and uncertainty costs money

Fri, 31 May 2024 12:00:00 -0400

Welcome back to The Vertical Space! In this episode, we chat with Don Berchoff, CEO of TruWeather, about the critical impact of weather on aviation. Don highlights how weather-induced uncertainty costs the industry billions and shares staggering numbers on preventable costs. He discusses how aviation has adapted to unreliable weather data and the potential for significant improvements in flight operations and cost reduction.

Listen to Don's insights on the three key elements for better forecasts and the importance of data. We also delve into the challenges and needs of weather forecasting for drones, eVTOLs, and advanced air mobility broadly. Despite a high attrition rate due to weather, the aviation industry's willingness to invest in better systems remains a challenge. Luka and Peter push Don on whether the industry can afford to invest in improved weather systems.

#67 Niels Kalshoven, Port of Rotterdam: Drone Port Operations

Sun, 19 May 2024 18:00:00 -0400

Welcome back to The Vertical Space and our discussion with Niels Kalshoven, Head of Drone Innovation Program at Port of Rotterdam and Co-founder Drone Port Rotterdam. This is one of the few discussions where we're speaking with someone without an aviation, OEM, or advanced air mobility background, but with experience where drones will be used - in this case at a maritime port, the Port of Rotterdam.

Building upon previous discussions with Andrew Hately, Niels delves into current and future drone applications in the Port of Rotterdam, highlighting U-Space implementation, scale of operations, and the role of ports in providing drone services. This is an interesting business model and it'll be interesting to see what type of service eventually scales at port operations. Will the ports allow their customers to operate drones independently with some type of centralized command and control, or will ports provide some type of centralized service?

It's great to hear how trailblazers are establishing drone operations, how they justify their efforts and spend, and how they see the real value in return from the operations of the future.

#66 Dan Magy: From Citadel to Firestorm, a journey through drone and counter-drone technology

Mon, 06 May 2024 17:00:00 -0400

Welcome back to The Vertical Space! Today we're joined by Dan Magy, founder and CEO of Firestorm, a California-based company developing low-cost and modular military UAS systems. Dan's entrepreneurial history includes the founding of Citadel in 2016, a counter drone company employing various technologies, including radio-frequency jamming to detect and mitigate unauthorized drone threats.

As you can imagine, Dan's rich background sets the stage for a really insightful conversation. We kicked things off by framing the counter UAS challenge, highlighting the inadequacy of most technologies developed in the past decade in mitigating modern drone threats, particularly on the battlefield. Dan talks about the founding and early days of Citadel and what it was like to navigate the complexities of selling to the government while responding to the urgent need of countering small drones in various hotspots in the world.

We then explore the evolving nature of the drone threat and how this is leading to a sophisticated cat-and-mouse dynamic. We talk about the new realities that warfighters and drone operators in regions like Ukraine are adjusting to and how this is shaping the counter UAS landscape.

Throughout the conversation, Dan draws parallels to Firestorm's strategy of overwhelming adversaries with mass and modularity. We also touch upon the significance of product and user interface simplicity, how to ensure long-term defensibility of drone companies, the reasons why U.S. drone companies are struggling in Ukraine, and some emerging technologies on the horizon that Dan is excited about.

#65 Andrew Coleman: Unpacking the Value of Data in Aviation

Mon, 22 Apr 2024 19:00:00 -0400

Welcome to another episode of The Vertical Space where we sit down with Andrew Coleman, leader of GE Aerospace's software business. In this conversation, we explore the critical intersection of traditional aviation and advanced air mobility, delving into the effective use of data for meaningful insights. Discover how GE mines, analyzes, and provides data for aviation customers, and how this applies to the evolving landscape of advanced air mobility. From discussing the perception of the value of aviation data to identifying specific use cases for enhancing safety, sustainability, and efficiency, Andrew shares valuable insights that shed light on the future of aviation. Tune in to learn how a focus on targeted use cases and well-defined data can drive success in both traditional and advanced aviation industries.

#64 Lorne Cass: Aviation Operations; Today's Lessons for Tomorrow's Operators

Mon, 08 Apr 2024 19:00:00 -0400

Welcome to The Vertical Space podcast and a discussion with Lorne Cass, an aviation executive who most recently served as Vice President of American Airlines' Integrated Operations Center, and is the current RTCA Chair. Lorne knows where aviation has been, where it is today and talks about how he believes we're going forward in aviation.

You'll enjoy Lorne's overview of the aviation industry, airline operations, and the challenges faced by airline operations. Few can tell you better about the opportunities available to our innovators facing not just tomorrow's challenges, but today's opportunities for near term operational optimization. Innovators and their investors should take note.

There are so many opportunities for innovators from Lorne's discussion. Starting with where he believes few agree with him on, to the challenges airlines and airports face today, to the requirements of today's and tomorrow's operators, to the challenges and opportunities of air traffic optimization and to the requirements and opportunities for data sharing and coordination in our complex airspace.

#63 Uma Subramanian, Surya Ventures: Commercial air travel innovation under attack

Mon, 25 Mar 2024 19:00:00 -0400

In today's episode, we sit down with Uma Subramanian, a seasoned aviation expert with a wealth of experience in the industry.

Having known Uma for many years, we've been really eager to bring her insights to our audience. From her time as an engineer working on F-18s, to doing corporate development and strategy at Rolls Royce, to leading the urban air mobility network Voom, an Airbus company, to being the founding CEO of Aero, an airline catering to premium passengers, from March 2019 to September 2023, Uma truly brings a unique perspective to the table.

Our conversation with Uma covers a wide range of topics, from the genesis of Aero and the economics of running an airline to the challenges and opportunities in the ever-evolving aviation industry. One particularly contentious topic we explore is the ongoing debate surrounding Part 135 and Part 380 regulations, sparked by the success and recent public discourse around JSX.

Throughout our discussion, we delve into the intricacies of airline operations, exploring questions such as the right strategies for profitable growth, the role of labor in shaping airline policies, and the regulatory structures that either hinder or foster innovation in air travel. We also touch upon exciting developments in electric aviation and the potential for regional air services in the U.S., shedding light on the future of aviation and the path forward for industry innovation.

So join us as we unpack the complexities of starting and running an airline, navigate the economics of air travel, and explore the fascinating intersections of innovation and regulation in aviation.

#62 Andrew Hately, Eurocontrol: U-Space, UTM, and the integrated airspace

Mon, 11 Mar 2024 15:00:00 -0400

Welcome back to The Vertical Space and a conversation with Andrew Hately - a senior researcher in the Drone unit at the EUROCONTROL Innovation Hub in France - about U-Space, UTM, and ATM.

Andrew emphasizes the necessity of radical steps to integrate the airspace for UAS traffic management, suggesting that without such integration, UAS operations may not be economically viable. He particularly focuses on U-Space, discussing its origins, current status, requirements, and the challenges in its implementation. Andrew advocates for a proactive approach in designing the U-Space system from the outset, rather than adopting a slow iterative process, to ensure its effectiveness and eventual success. He also addresses the importance of drone detection, categorizing potential threats as careless, clueless, or criminal, and discusses the challenges in detecting noncooperative aircraft.

Moreover, Andrew delves into the various technologies used for drone detection, including radar, acoustic, optical, and radio-based systems, highlighting the need for both tactical and strategic deconfliction to ensure safety in airspace shared by manned and unmanned aircraft. He acknowledges the current lack of confidence in surveillance systems for strategic maneuvering and emphasizes the necessity of knowing the precise locations of aircraft for effective tactical maneuvers. Additionally, Andrew discusses the role of commercial service providers in UAS traffic management, recognizing the challenges they face in a nascent market with limited flying activity but expressing optimism for the future of UAS operations. Overall, Andrew's insights reflect a well-informed and balanced perspective on the evolving landscape of UAS and UTM.

#61 Eric Leopold, Threedot (ex-IATA): Air transport in the digital age

Mon, 26 Feb 2024 20:00:00 -0500

Welcome back to The Vertical Space for a conversation with Eric Leopold, a long time veteran of IATA, the International Air Transport Association. We start the conversation talking about the state of the airline industry and its current priorities such as the post COVID recovery, digital transformation and sustainability. As most of you know, there are large regional differences in the maturity of the industry and therefore priorities, so we generalize the discussion on bottlenecks that airlines and airports face as the demand for air travel grows and potentially doubles over the next 15 to 20 years.

Here we touched on capacity, ground infrastructure, workforce, the IT infrastructure and how advanced air mobility can solve some of these bottlenecks. We also discuss whether the hub and spoke network model continues to be prevalent in the future.

Another key theme in the conversation is digital transformation. What are the opportunities on the business side and on the operational side? And how airline and airport CIOs are thinking about prioritizing their budgets across projects? Part of the discussion is the role of generative AI in the travel experience. For instance, instead of going to an online travel agent to buy your ticket, Eric suggests we might be able to buy , our flight in a supermarket or a bank or any other retail location for that matter. Or we might use generative AI and a voice interface to guide us through the travel booking process, one that is more personalized and more in tune with our individual preferences.

If you're looking for an expert and pragmatic opinion of the challenges and opportunities that aviation is facing you're in the right place!

#60 Eric Watson, Zipline: Drone delivery and the Zipline experience

Mon, 12 Feb 2024 17:00:00 -0500

Welcome to our conversation with Eric Watson from Zipline.

You can’t help but be impressed with the inspiring and important work that Zipline has done with their partners in Africa – with medical and healthcare outcomes that are remarkable. So, you will really enjoy hearing about Zipline and their first platform in Africa – Eric gives an excellent overview.

We then transition to their work in the United States with their Platform 2. We discuss how their experiences in Africa helped and contributed to their US performance. We discuss what’s similar and what’s completely different between the two markets.

Eric is a pro at discussing the US certification process – and he takes it from ground up as if he were starting from scratch. What’s required, what has changed throughout the years, what’s working well, and what can be improved – and how the certification process is different than what they first anticipated upon launching in the US. He also discusses where there’s been tremendous progress in the last year.

In advanced air mobility, there’s always this struggle with product-market fit. Many of the players in the market have been accused of having a technical capability and are in-search for a market or a problem to solve. It is entirely refreshing to hear that Zipline started with a massive problem to solve in Africa – and from that impressive work, have demonstrated success and medical outcomes in Africa that are amazing.

What it really comes down to is how that success translates into the bigger, yet more complex and more competitive market in the US – where their unique platform two can deliver with precision “on a dinner plate” with almost no noise whatsoever. Listen from Eric on how they believe they can compete in this much different market.

Eric, thanks for joining us!

#59 John Langford, Electra.aero: Bringing eSTOL to Market

Wed, 31 Jan 2024 01:00:00 -0500

Welcome back to The Vertical Space and a terrific conversation with John Langford, CEO of Electra.aero. We talked about the key drivers for advanced air mobility, and how factors such as market acceptance, use case, certification, tech readiness, and infrastructure requirements dictate what type of vehicles will fly first with commercial relevance. We extensively discussed eSTOL - its advantages and disadvantages compared to other proposed vehicle types of today. John explains why Electra decided to use blown lift, STOL technology and hybrid electric power. Listen to what use cases they're targeting with a soccer field sized operating spaces. We then discuss Aurora Flight Sciences, from the very early days to the eventual acquisition by Boeing.

#58 Kara Kramer, AeroVironment: A deep dive into the Replicator initiative and future of military UAS

Tue, 16 Jan 2024 10:00:00 -0500

Welcome back to The Vertical Space and our conversation with Kara Kramer, Director of Business Development at AeroVironment. This is a discussion around the evolving role of UAS in warfare, including in Ukraine, the critical role of the supply chain to ensure we can properly engage in those wars, and the recent announcement of the U.S. DoD Replicator Initiative.

Kara immediately jumps into the fragility of our UAS supply chain - something we've talked a lot about over the last couple of years, but she says that with all of the talk and awareness, not much has really been done about it relating to our preparation for UAS in warfare. Then we enter a very cool discussion that the outcome of future wars, as Peter says, may revolve around the capability to produce high volume electronics.

We discuss the state of the UAS market, particularly defense UAS and especially around mass. How many drones can you produce and field? How quickly can you scale what's needed to maintain scale? And lastly, how would you rise to meet that demand? Kara discusses how mass is achieved, how DoD forecasting orders is the greatest limiting factor and how even large businesses can't invest without effective DoD forecasting requirements. We discuss the impact of Ukraine on UAS and the impact it's having on our vision of future wars.

We then discuss DoD's Replicator Initiative and what drove its birth, how it surprised industry, how it will leverage unmanned systems to prepare for mass and how it's meant to address the growing threat from China. Finally listen to what Kara sees as the future of warfare and her advice to you, our entrepreneurs.

#57 Valerie Manning, Overair: Reality Check On Commercializing eVTOLs

Wed, 03 Jan 2024 10:00:00 -0500

Welcome to our conversation with Dr. Valerie Manning, Chief Commercial Officer of Overair. This is a discussion around the value of advanced air mobility, of eVTOLs and Overair's unique value to meet these requirements. We've had this discussion many times, on the value of the advanced air mobility and eVTOLs, but it changes over time and of course, based on the experience, education and the workplace of the person responding. And so as such, this is a conversation with Valerie that's really worth listening to. We discussed the state of advanced air mobility market today compared to several years ago, the most notable milestones, what's not getting enough attention and the road to commercialization. We then discuss what has changed about the viability and the use case of eVTOLs in the last several years, both positive and otherwise. We spend a bit of time discussing whether or not there's a real first mover advantage in advanced air mobility, comparing Boeing's potential advantage in the early days of aviation and perhaps where Overair may have a slow mover advantage as their vehicle will learn from the experiences and the learning curve of the initial launch vehicles and early stage eVTOL markets. We then discussed Valerie's work as Chief Commercial Officer, what the role entails a bit about their go to market strategy, and a more detailed discussion around the trade-off between selling aircraft and operating transportation networks.

#56 Robert Rose, Reliable Robotics: Exploring the future of autonomy in aviation

Mon, 18 Dec 2023 15:00:00 -0500

Welcome back to The Vertical Space and our conversation with Robert Rose, co-founder and CEO of Reliable Robotics.

This is a conversation about autonomy. We discussed the arc of automation and, what evolved in the conversation, the arc of safety in aviation from its early days to today. You'll notice how Robert will closely and consistently link autonomy to safety in the beginning, throughout and at the end of the conversation; an irrefutable argument. He essentially says autonomy is going to happen so get used to it. But he makes the hard medicine taste just a bit better by tying the key arguments to safety.

We spend a bit of time on the motivation for pursuing autonomous flight by segment; GA, Part 135/121 with a safety imperative for automation being more required in the former than in the latter. After a few attempts, we eventually get to other reasons why autonomy is needed in addition to, and beyond the safety case. As we've discussed many times the podcasts, we discussed the need for autonomy for many of the advanced air mobility business models to scale, and to meet their financial projections.

Robert discusses the autonomous capabilities of Reliable Robotics, and as Robert says, what makes them unique is their ground up designs for automation and certification, where it's more difficult for others to go back and design for automation if that wasn't the original intention. We spent a lot of time discussing the processes required to certify automation systems, and get into a really interesting discussion around the design of their air to air radar, it's value, market size, and why build it on their own versus purchasing off the shelf radar and whether or not it's core to their autonomy focus or perhaps a distraction to that focus. He wraps up his talk with great advice to entrepreneurs.

#55 Yemaya Bordain, Daedalean: certifying autonomy, next-gen avionics, and multi-core processors

Tue, 05 Dec 2023 19:00:00 -0500

Check out an in-depth and fast-moving discussion of certifying autonomy, next-gen avionics, and multi-core processors with Dr. Yemaya Bordain, President of the Americas for Daedalean.

Right out of the gate Yemaya challenges much of today’s established thinking on UAM: Listen to what she says is an area where very few in the industry agree with her on – and where she questions the near-term economic viability of the UAM model. And that she believes level 4 autonomy is needed for UAM economic viability – and listen to later in the podcast on when she believes level 4 autonomy may come about. Those investing in UAM should pay close attention here!

We discuss the history of automation, the Why of automation, on a segment by segment basis, what has and will drive the need, and how does it scale, followed closely by a detailed discussion of the levels of automation, and the value of each– and why. And how safety improvements are the biggest near-term opportunities in this market.

Listen to Yemaya’s first discussion with operators on autonomy – particularly commercial operators. The next part of the discussion is a detailed discussion on the future of avionics, starting with a discussion of Yemaya’s white paper.

Listen how to compute massive amounts of data to meet the size, weight, and power constraints of gravity. We enter into a detailed discussion on why AI needs multi-core processors and the difficulty of certifying MCPs and listen to Yemaya’s response to Luka’s question on whether or not there can be a generalized approach to certifying MCPs and how Yemaya thinks that autonomy and certification of AI and MCPs will change the existing value chain in avionics.

She also discusses at what levels of automation where Daedalean will be generating revenue, and in what markets, including AAM, over the next 10+ years.

#54 Stuart Ginn, WakeMed: A physician's perspective on medical drone delivery

Tue, 21 Nov 2023 09:00:00 -0500

Welcome back to The Vertical Space for a deep dive into the medical delivery use case, or I should say another deep dive into this interesting topic. We’ve had guests in the past – notably Justin Steinke from Spright – where we talked about the medical delivery use case from an operator and drone expert perspective. This time, we get to hear from Stuart Ginn who besides having a professional aviation background is also a physician and therefore looks at the drone opportunity through the lens of a healthcare professional – somebody engaged in delivering healthcare and intimately familiar with the complexities associated with it.

We’ve covered a lot of ground in this conversation, starting with a description of the existing internal logistics systems within a large healthcare system, and more importantly its current problems that drones might successfully address. And we do this in the context of macro factors that healthcare faces in providing access to clinical services to rural areas. We compare the B2B medical drone delivery business model to that of the B2C consumer delivery and have a lively discussion around which is more likely to become a killer app first.

The opinion that the B2B medical drone delivery use case is a promising market opportunity is commonly shared in the industry. However, what is not adequately discussed is exactly how this value will be realized, what matters to hospitals, and what the ultimate product needs to look like to ensure wide adoption. Here’s where Stuart’s insights really stand out. For instance, instead of thinking about drones as part of a transportation system, Stuart believes they should be considered as an extension of the infrastructure, not unlike pneumatic tubes in hospitals today. As usual, we go deep, ask tough questions, and uncover interesting insights not widely shared.

#53 Declan Ryan, Irelandia: The founding of Ryanair, low-cost airlines, lessons for AAM

Thu, 02 Nov 2023 19:00:00 -0400

Welcome back to The Vertical Space for a discussion with Declan Ryan, one of the co-founders of Ryanair and a serial builder of low-cost airlines. With commercial drone operations starting to gain momentum and the contours of future eVTOL operations becoming better understood, it is important to highlight the evolution of the low-cost airline business model and learn the lessons from this market. And we have just the right guest to take a deep dive into this fascinating topic.

Dec takes us to the early days of Ryanair: how they viewed the market opportunity, how they chose to compete with legacy airlines, the strategic choices and early pivots, the mistakes along the way…and some very funny moments including negotiating an acquisition with British Airways.

More broadly though, we discuss how low-cost airlines make money in a highly commoditized environment, the revenue opportunities, ways to remove cost from operations, and the role of technology in the relentless pursuit of operational excellence.

Dec has been in the industry for a long time and what you’ll hear from him is a sober, unfiltered view of the challenges and opportunities that the airline industry is facing, both today and in the near future.

Throughout the conversation, we make references to AAM and ways in which the lessons learned in the low-cost airline business might inform eVTOL operations and drone operations at scale. There are many lessons that the AAM industry should embrace, mistakes it should not repeat, and Dec highlights those backing them up with personal experience starting, running, or being involved in a number of airlines around the world.

We discuss many other topics such as decarbonizing aviation, supersonic air travel, how startups should pitch airline customers, advice to entrepreneurs, and much more.

#52 Paul Rinaldi, Air Traffic Management: Today's Realities and Tomorrow's Opportunities

Tue, 24 Oct 2023 10:00:00 -0400

Check out a terrific discussion with Paul Rinaldi, President of Rinaldi Consultants and served as President of the National Air Traffic Controllers Association (NATCA).

Paul is the voice of today’s reality and tomorrow’s opportunities. In his crystal-clear messaging, he speaks to “the way it is” in air traffic. And by fully understanding the current state of air traffic, he helps to pave a way for opportunities for modernization – from technology that was already approved and purchased many years ago that has yet to be fully implemented, to technology today that could improve our system, to opportunities for tomorrow as we integrate all things into the vertical space.

Thanks for joining us Paul!

9:02 Exploring the advantages of privatizing air traffic management

21:00 Current state of air traffic management in the U.S.

33:19 How technology can solve air traffic management pain points

45:13 Integrating new entrants (AAM) into the NAS. Should low-flying drones be segregated or integrated?

59:23 Is air traffic management an appealing opportunity for startups?

1:01:05 Common mistakes entrepreneurs make when selling into the ATM/ATC community

1:06:40 Air traffic controller shortage

#51 Carl Dietrich, Jump Aero: MOSAIC - a transformational opportunity

Tue, 10 Oct 2023 18:00:00 -0400

An in-depth conversation with Carl Dietrich, Founder/CEO/CTO of Jump Aero – as he explains everything you want to know about Jump Aero as well as MOSAIC, the proposed Modernization of Special Airworthiness Certification rule – what Carl considers a transformational opportunity.

We start with Carl’s professional arc through aviation from the Terrafugia days to Jump Aero, including involvement with the Part 23 rewrite and ASTM standards. We discuss the history of Light Sport Aircraft: when and why it was introduced and the significance to the GA market.

The heart of the discussion is Carl’s context to what led up to the proposed MOSAIC rule. We discuss when MOSAIC was first proposed and why, how it changes the LSA definition, and, very cool, how significant this change could be to the growth of the GA and AAM markets, including to potentially create a faster path to market for certain types of aircraft.

#50 Christiaan Hen, Assaia: AI and aviation's "pit stops"

Tue, 26 Sep 2023 10:00:00 -0400

In this episode we talk about something that has great relevance to traditional aviation, and that will become increasingly important to drone and other AAM concepts as their operations increase in scale and complexity – which is utilization of the most important physical assets in aviation -> aircraft and ground infrastructure. We have the pleasure of doing a deep dive into this interesting topic with Christiaan Hen, Chief Customer Officer at Assaia, a company with the vision to improve safety, efficiency, and capacity of the air transportation system by bringing transparency and order to ground operations.

We start the conversation with an analysis of the process of turning aircraft around at airport gates: the different parts of the process, the relevant metrics, the various stakeholders involved, and the limitations of existing methods used to manage the turnaround process and broadly gate management. As the scale of commercial air operations increased over the past several decades, with the corresponding commoditization of air travel, the pressure on the air transportation system to increase efficiency while maintaining safety has never been higher. Add capacity constraints at airports that are responsible for the majority of traffic, labor shortages, and ambitions to decarbonize aviation, and you quickly realize the importance of doing more with less, and to do it more predictably and consistently. Most of our conversation with Chris is about how to achieve that.

As we discuss the benefits of Assaia’s solutions to existing aviation stakeholders, we draw parallels to AAM and how this is a market that will require greater transparency and optimization of ground operations – think high density drone operations, but with the benefit of freedom in infrastructure models and technology stacks that are not burdened with outdated legacy IT systems.

We also talk about the differences between Europe and North America as it relates to airport operations, state of the market, and willingness to invest in new technologies.

#49 Pete Bunce, GAMA: general aviation's perspective on AAM

Tue, 12 Sep 2023 07:00:00 -0400

Blunt converation with Pete Bunce, President & CEO of the General Aviation Manufacturers Association (GAMA).

Pete combines a deep understanding of established aviation as well as advanced air mobility. He introduces competence, regulatory understanding, industry knowledge, and knowing how to get things done. Listen to Pete's vision of aviation and AAM - there's nothing superficial here.

As you will see time and again, Pete calls it as he sees it.

Pete is a great industry leader. Thanks Pete for joining us on The Vertical Space.

#48 Reflections at the intersection of technology and flight

Tue, 29 Aug 2023 08:00:00 -0400

Today will be a different kind of conversation. We, the hosts of The Vertical Space, provide reflections on the intersection of tech and flight that were the center point of our talk at Honeywell’s 2nd Annual Advanced Air Mobility Summit.

We first discuss why we started the podcast and its success (thanks to you) – then Luka provides background on what has driven the need for AAM, then we together discuss the 4 takeaways from conversations with our podcast guests and from our own observations over the last few years.

Hope you enjoy.

#47 David Stepanek, Bristow: AAM customer perspective

Mon, 14 Aug 2023 18:00:00 -0400

Today's talk is with David Stepanek – the Executive Vice President and Chief Transformation Officer of Bristow.

So where we talk often talk to those building vehicles in AAM – here we have an industry leader who is committed to the opportunities of AAM – is confident that AAM will improve Bristow’s performance, reduce costs, and improve their position with sustainability.

David describes how Bristow has the vision and are a leader in innovative and sustainable vertical flight solutions.

Listen to what they project will be a meaningful cost reduction of AAM vs. the helicopters they’re operating today – both in reducing up front capital requirements as well as reducing long term operating costs – they believe they can reduce their direct operating costs by 60-70%.

He believes Bristow will receive a meaningful return from AAM around 2030 – with a heavier contribution after 2035.

He describes how urban air mobility will eventually be successful…it will probably be on a longer timeframe than most are thinking today…that there are a number of risks and challenges most are not considering today…and to scale will be more difficult than it first appears.

Listen to the section on where David believes is the most value in AAM – from OEM, to Operator, to MRO, to Infrastructure and Systems – great section…and his impression of where the greater value is may be a surprise to some.

As much as David and Bristow are leading their industry with AAM ….he’s also careful, realistic, and pragmatic in his approach – this is not just a cheerleader or a one-sided promoter of AAM – he has and you’ll be listening to a balanced perspective.

Many thanks to David for joining us!

#46 Dan Elwell: FAA Reauthorization; "1,500 Hour Rule"; the balance between safety and innovation

Mon, 31 Jul 2023 13:00:00 -0400

This episode marks a first for our podcast – it’s the first time that we recorded an episode in person, and we did it during the Honeywell Aerospace Second Annual Advanced Air Mobility Summit in Washington DC, where the three of us also shared insights on the industry in front of an impressive audience of government and industry leaders.

One of the major themes of the Summit was the upcoming FAA Reauthorization, and so in light of that, we sat down with Dan Elwell – who previously served as the Acting FAA Administrator and also its Deputy Administrator – to do a deep dive into the FAA Reauthorization and other important industry topics.

We start the conversation with the pilot shortage problem, the structural and cultural forces at play, and how technology can help solve it. The discussion surfaces the currently somewhat controversial topic of the role that simulators play in the “1,500 hour” rule. Listen to why Dan believes pilots should be allowed to accumulate even the entirety of the 1500hrs requirement in modern high tech simulators.

Most of our conversation, however, takes us back to the roots and foundational principles of regulating aviation, including an overview of the evolution of the FAA mandate since its founding in 1958. Although not novel, the balance between ensuring safety and promoting the growth of the industry is more important today than it ever was before. We hover on this topic quite a bit and, among other things, draw analogies to how commercial space flights are regulated.

Listen to what Dan thinks is one of the most important issues that the FAA needs to figure out, and how what he calls the 737 Max PTSD phenomenon and other factors create a chilling effect on the FAA workforce and their ability to be an effective regulator.

#45 Damon Vander Lind, extending electric range with zero emissions

Wed, 19 Jul 2023 16:00:00 -0400

Welcome to our conversation with Damon Vander Lind, co-founder and CEO of Magpie Aviation, a company enabling long-range flights with zero emissions. Damon and Magpie are offering a solution that is fresh and new – a lot of you will be both fascinated by his vision and at the same time find reasons to challenge his assumptions – and you have to admire his bold approach to the market.

Listen to Damon's views on the evolution of advanced air mobility, of electric aviation, and the use-cases being addressed.

Damon believes the industry needs solutions that address sustainability and carbon reduction – and that sustainability will become more essential in the years to come. He challenges and gives his perspectives on some of the current hopeful solutions for sustainability, including sustainable aviation fuel (SAF), which many of the airlines are betting on today.

There are those who will criticize some of today’s eVTOL companies for overstating the impact of their solution on the environment. With Magpie – and their promise of extended range – they have the opportunity to provide zero-carbon flights to longer range trips. So he’s all-in on sustainability – because customers will be paying a premium for the extended range, as well as some additional tradeoffs – and Magpie is betting the greater value of sustainability will offset the slightly higher price of his proposed solution.

So listen to this podcast for a number of reasons, listen: to one of the leading engineers talk about the evolution of the industry; to the different approaches to sustainable aviation and the electrification of the industry; to an informed person’s fresh perspective on AAM and the near-term value eVTOLs; and to Damon’s perspective on his proposed solution with Magpie Aviation.

Damon, thanks for joining us!

#44 Thomas Neubauer: cellular connectivity as an enabler of BVLOS operations

Wed, 05 Jul 2023 07:00:00 -0400

Welcome to our conversation with Thomas Neubauer, Co-founder and CEO of Dimetor. We discuss connectivity using cellular networks and the intersection of cellular networks and aviation.

Thomas discusses the requirement of having a pilot in command – and that you must have good, reliable digital communication to ensure connectivity – to fulfill this pilot in command requirement.

We discuss how BVLOS operations are being enabled via cellular networks. It’s also interesting to hear about the gap between communications service providers and aviation ecosystems – why it’s relevant – and what can be done about it.

We go in depth on the strengths, weaknesses, and risks of cellular for command and control – as well as other options that may be available in place of or to complement cellular.

Thomas is the architect of Europe’s UTM interface standard – so he discusses the standard and why it was developed. He also discusses how a drone could be considered an IoT device, or Aerial IoT.

Finally, we discuss Thomas’ company and product, AirborneRF, the problems they’re addressing, their customers, and how they generate revenue.

Thanks for joining The Vertical Space Thomas!

#43 Venkat Viswanathan: batteries and electric aviation

Mon, 19 Jun 2023 22:00:00 -0400

Today we revisit the topic of batteries with Venkat Viswanathan, Associate Professor of Mechanical Engineering at Carnegie Mellon University.

As someone who relatively recently started his journey in electric aviation, Venkat is massively inspired by the challenge and opportunity of electrifying aviation. We sat down to discuss why he is optimistic about 1,000 Wh/kg energy density at the battery pack level becoming commercially available in the next 10-15 years, a goal that many of his fellow battery experts find tough to believe.

However, this is not a “boring” lesson in battery chemistry. We talked about what it takes to commercialize new battery chemistries and who will carry the burden of funding new R&D to improve battery energy and power densities now that there is no incentive to pursue such efforts by the automotive industry.

Listen also how Venkat describes the AND problem, which stands for the challenge for batteries to achieve both high energy density and also high power density, and how hybrid batteries with different chemistries might help solve this challenge. We also talked about the differences between batteries for VTOL vs CTOL aircraft, about the different and sometimes conflicting requirements for different types of aircraft and missions, about innovation in non-destructive diagnostics to figure out power and energy remaining, and also about how generative AI can accelerate the development of new battery chemistries.

#42 Billy Thalheimer, Regent and coastal transportation

Tue, 06 Jun 2023 09:00:00 -0400

Today we introduce the maritime world to AAM - with a conversation with Billy Thalheimer, CEO and Co-Founder of Regent.

We’ve been hearing such positive news about Regent – as I’m sure you’ve heard as well. But what makes Regent so darn attractive? They’re not just getting orders for their aircraft – as many are – but they’re getting firm orders.

First – Billy makes it clear that Regent is addressing a multi-modal coastal transportation opportunity – with a novel vehicle – the sea glider. Listen to the use-case. The technology. The range with existing battery technologies – and why. But listen to the challenges that others don’t have as well.

A terrific conversation around the maritime certification with the Coast Guard and other organizations around the world vs. the FAA and other aviation regulators. They’ve seemingly minimized some of the more obvious risks that others have in AAM – FAA certification, landing infrastructure, air traffic control and congestion, range for electric aviation, size of vehicle and its passenger comfort, and so on.

Bill expresses skepticism on whether or not some of the current AAM vehicles will actually hit their projected timelines – given what they said they would accomplish 5 years ago – and what has accomplished since – and the herculean feats, as Billy says, that some of them have to pull off to meet their objectives. Love the gut punches.

And, like many of our guests, Billy is thoughtful, smart, visionary and leader. Listen to his advice to other business leaders and innovators, what he learned from working as an intern with Jeff Bezos at Blue Origin, and how he leads his team today. And what technologies he thinks you should be focusing on.

#41 Brian Yutko, Wisk: demystifying autonomy

Mon, 22 May 2023 20:00:00 -0400

Our guest today is Brian Yutko, Chief Executive Officer at Wisk, a California-based advanced air mobility company developing a fully autonomous electric vertical takeoff and landing air taxi.

“Demystifying autonomy” is a fitting title for the insightful and fascinating conversation we had with Brian. He thoughtfully argues that autonomous electric flight for small aircraft, the likes of Wisk’s eVTOL, will become a commercial reality much sooner than most people think, only a few years from now. Of course, when making such a bold statement that most would push back on, definitions and details matter, and in the case of Wisk, the concept of operations involves flying on an IFR flight plan in extremely controlled scenarios using very high levels of integrity and assurance in the underlying systems, both on-board and on the ground. Listen to Brian explain the state of technology as well as the systems engineering and product development standing in the way of this ambitious goal.

We also discussed a few myths and misconceptions that exist in the industry, namely that the value of autonomy is in eliminating pilot cost, or that the future is either piloted or autonomous.

This has been such an insights-packed conversation that it’s tough to summarize it. If you’re interested in autonomous flight, the systems architecture that will support it, certification pathways for autonomous flight, sustainable flight, or just what it’s like to build a business in advanced air mobility – you don’t want to miss this episode.

#40 Eric Allison, Joby Aviation: The Sound of Silence

Mon, 08 May 2023 20:00:00 -0400

A revealing, important, and meaningful talk with Joby’s Head of Product, Eric Allison.

How often do you get a chance to talk to a person of Eric’s experience and background to hear how and why the designed their vehicle the way they did given the anticipated market demand?

You’ll hear a common theme throughout the podcast – Eric and Joby’s constant focus on minimizing aircraft noise – which they believe is so important for customer and community acceptance.

We also have a good discussion on the overall market and how Joby is bringing the aircraft and the product and service to market, as well as their initial focused customer segment.

We discuss certification and the value of a piloted vehicle in the certification process. And we get to hear Eric’s opinion on the future of fully autonomous operations.

Our discussion on the cost of operation is important where Joby is developing what they believe to be the right pricing strategies based on demand patterns. We discuss the right price targets that will drive the utilization Joby requires.

Eric is an articulate and informed industry leader – he provides a compelling vision for the overall market as well as for Joby.

Thanks for joining us Eric!

#39 Chris Kucera, OneSky: UAS Traffic Management

Mon, 24 Apr 2023 15:00:00 -0400

An in-depth discussion on UTM with Chris Kucera, co-founder of OneSky, discussing the fascinating and complex world of UAS traffic management, or UTM.

UTM is a rapidly evolving area – it’s done differently throughout the world with various degrees of application and value. Listen to what UTM is, how its formulated, its value, when its needed, and when its not.

Those of you who can understand the complexity and value of UTM will not only be better equipped to deploy, realize value from, and invest in UTM providers, but will better operate your OEM and service businesses going forward.

Listen to the importance of operators sharing information, including positional and surveillance information – and the integration and synthesis of this information, and how essential this information sharing is to an effective, safe system.

Listen to the different types of UTM service providers and how UTM is deployed and by whom – and how they’re deployed in the US and throughout the world, and an important discussion of the EU’s U-space.

We cover what data is needed for different parts of the UTM process where Chris explains the data, its source, value, and application.

It’s great hearing how OneSky started, it’s unique advantages, and how they expect to provide value and make money in the years to come.

We thank Chris for a terrific discussion!

#38 Svilen Rangelov, Dronamics: middle mile cargo drones

Thu, 06 Apr 2023 16:00:00 -0400

Welcome to our conversation with Svilen Rangelov, Co-Founder and CEO of Dronamics, a business with the goal to change how the world moves goods.

We start with a discussion around the broader drone/UAS market and then the cargo drone delivery market – including use-cases and early demand, challenges and opportunities, and the overall landscape.

Then we talk about Dronamics, the problems they’re solving for customers near and long term with their middle mile solutions. Listen to how Svilen believes they’ll be providing a better and less expensive solution than today’s alternatives, especially with their initial focus on underserved markets.

We also discuss his challenges and opportunities and why middle mile vs. last mile solutions, where last mile are where many others are focused.

We also discuss their vehicle, the Black Swan, and how they plan to be an OEM, an operator, and manager of droneports. Listen to the really interesting requirements and capabilities of the droneports, the costs and challenges, and how they believe these droneports are an essential part of their competitive advantage and customer value.

Svilen also discusses his conversations with logistics companies and their focus on cost.

We also discuss his work with European regulators and the regulatory approvals, including for design verification.

Many thanks to Svilen and Dronamics for a substantial discussion!

#37 Ryan Riley: Pilot training innovation in USAF and airlines

Tue, 28 Mar 2023 00:00:00 -0400

Today’s topic is the exciting world of pilot training innovation, an area that has become a high priority to militaries and airlines around the world given the pilot shortage that the industry is grappling with. Helping us examine this topic is Ryan Riley, a retired USAF F-16 fighter pilot who most recently led Pilot Training Next, an initiative that leveraged advanced training technologies and learning methods to cut the USAF pilot training in half. Ryan also currently happens to be going through training with a major U.S. airline which we also discuss in our conversation.

The USAF is short approximately 2,000 pilots, which is about a third more than its annual theoretical capacity to produce pilots. At the same time, major airlines are accelerating their pilot hiring and are signaling concern about insufficient pilot supply. This has sparked a wave of flight training innovation to solve two major pain points: training time and throughput.

Ryan walked us through the current Air Force pilot training pipeline, what prompted urgency to revisit the decade old training formula, what innovations the Air Force experimented with, and what the outcomes were. We talked about the pros and cons of mixed reality and synthetic training, and the importance of student-centric and distributed learning in both military and civil training environments.

Naturally, we also discussed the controversial topic of the 1,500 hour rule, the related hours versus competencies dilemma, single pilot operations, and then extrapolated the discussion to autonomous systems, and how novel concepts in flight training might help the industry think through building trust in autonomous wingmen or virtual copilots.

And to stay true to our roots, Ryan highlights what remaining pain points exist for innovators to go and solve.

Ryan recently retired from the USAF where he flew F-16s, both operationally as a fighter pilot with multiple combat deployments as well as a Thunderbird pilot. In addition to flying, Ryan’s career included a number of leadership roles including deputy division chief 19th Air Force, Chief of Offense at the 613 Air Operations Center, contingency and crisis action planner, Pacific Air Forces lead technology integrator, and most recently Detachment 24 Commander leading Pilot Training Next.

#36 Robert A. Pearce, NASA, Associate Administrator

Tue, 14 Mar 2023 09:00:00 -0400

How often do you get to have a conversation with Bob Pearce, the Associate Administrator for NASA’s Aeronautics Research Mission Directorate? Well, you do today – and you’ll really enjoy the talk.

Bob discusses how NASA synthesizes a picture of the future, in collaboration with thought leaders, and helps to remove the challenges to make that future happen.

We take a dive into sustainability, the importance of getting to net zero, and the three strategies to achieving a fully sustainable aviation system.

Bob discusses where NASA will and won’t get involved in AAM – including how NASA is helping to facilitate a safe, high density air traffic system.

We discuss what drove the creation of the Small Aircraft Transportation System (SATS) 20 plus years ago – why it didn’t work then, but why AAM may work today – including the level of automation we have today and what can evolve in the coming years – including the timeline for potentially fully remote pilots – to increase the level of AAM affordability.

We discuss UTM and Sky for All – what it is and NASA’s role and timeline – and again the role of automation given the density of traffic that will be coming.

Bob then discusses the sustainable flight demonstrator – why and how it was created it – and the cost-sharing partnership with Boeing – and he also discusses some of the questions that have evolved since that recent announcement.

Given Bob’s role with NextGen, we had had to ask about the successes and disappointments of NextGen – and his selection of one standout program.

Finally, listen to Bob’s recommendations and advice to innovators.

Many thanks to Bob for joining us on The Vertical Space.

#35 Charlton Evans, End State Solutions: cutting through the fog of drone regulations

Tue, 28 Feb 2023 01:00:00 -0500

Our guest today is Charlton Evans, founder and CEO of End State Solutions, a firm focused on certification and airworthiness for drones and other forms of advanced air mobility.

Given some of the recent milestones and rumors about drone regulations in the United States, we thought you would appreciate a discussion on the hot topics in FAA drone regulations from a true subject matter expert, whose firm recently helped Matternet receive the industry’s first drone type certification.

We covered a lot of ground with Charlton, starting with the first unmanned aircraft type certifications in the restricted category in 2013 and ways in which those operations failed to properly address the needs of the oil&gas industry at the time. We then followed regulatory and industry milestones to present day, discovering along the way the remaining challenges and opportunities facing the drone industry.

Charlton assigns responsibility to both the FAA and the industry for the state of commercial drone adoption among enterprises. Since 2013, there have been fewer champions within the FAA doing the heavy lift to tackle advanced air mobility and drive integration of drones into the national airspace system – resulting in a natural bureaucratic filter to innovation at the FAA. At the same time, the industry is still notorious for not coming to the table with fully developed products and concepts of operations.

The gap between rigorous safety-centric FAA processes and the spirit of rapid innovation borrowed from the tech world still exists but is definitely closing as both the industry and regulators gain more experience from ongoing projects and initial operations.

There is a ton of insights from this deep dive with Charlton, but let us highlight a few: you’ll hear what Charlton means by “any change is a change” or “ there is no certification by obvious”, how the FAA needs to get more comfortable with an appropriate assessment of risk, what three things type certification applicants need to bring to the table, how appropriate the durability & reliability type certification process really is, the black hole of 21.17(b) certification, in what ways drones and Light Sport Aircraft are similar, opportunities for innovation, and of course advice for entrepreneurs.

As mentioned, Charlton Evans is the founder and Chief Executive Officer of End State Solutions, a firm focused on certification and airworthiness for AAM, drone delivery, HAPS and RPAS. Charlton was a Harrier Pilot and Tactical Air Controller in the Marine Corps and still flies for business and pleasure as a commercial pilot. Charlton has led several successful civil and military drone certifications as well as historic BVLOS flight operations. Recently End State Solutions assisted with the FAA type certification of the Matternet M2 delivery drone. Charlton also led historic linear infrastructure and disaster response flights with the type certified ScanEagle UAS that resulted in the induction of ScanEagle N202SE into the Smithsonian Institute in 2016. Today End State Solutions is considered a trusted advisor by both industry and FAA, engaged across the spectrum of Type, Production, Operational approvals as well as regulatory affairs – building relationships that build trust and products that are trusted through certification

We hope you’ll enjoy the conversation as much as we did!

#34 Admiral Mike Rogers: Intelligence, Cyber, Technology

Mon, 13 Feb 2023 18:00:00 -0500

Enjoy this important discussion with Admiral Mike Rogers. Admiral Rogers served 37 years in the United States Navy, rising to the rank of four star Admiral and served as Commander, U.S. Cyber Command and Director, National Security Agency.

We open our conversation with a geostrategic perspective of the world. Mike discusses what the next conflict may look like, how we can prepare for that conflict, and what technology may become more important. Also what we’ll have to prepare for – and potentially tolerate – from future conflicts.

Mike’s discussion of Ukraine is equally fascinating and how it has characteristics of the first World War. We discuss the use of unmanned vehicles and their impact on the war.

And listen to what technology, aviation, and AAM is important for the future.
We discuss how scale, speed, and efficiency are what we’ll need today and in the future – and how industry has to help us get off the few exquisite platforms of today – given the needs of the future. And how the private sector has an important role with innovation for future warfighting needs.

Of course we discuss cyber – the threats – how it’s changing – how common cyber events are - and what industry can be doing relating to cyber. We also discuss cyber and the war in Ukraine – and how to integrate the capabilities of the government and the private sector – to build resilience.

Thank you Admiral Mike Rogers for an excellent conversation.

#33 Justin Steinke, Spright: B2B drone medical delivery

Tue, 31 Jan 2023 13:00:00 -0500

The conversation that follows is with Justin Steinke, Senior Vice President of Commercial Business at Spright. As a senior executive of one of the more sophisticated drone operators in the market, Justin knows the drone industry inside and out. He is just as comfortable discussing macro industry trends as he is getting into the weeds of enabling technologies. Needless to say, we did both.

We start with a long discussion on the state of the commercial drone market: the remaining unaddressed pain points, technology gaps, enterprise adoption, upcoming market inflection points, the regulatory situation, and the best practices employed by successful drone businesses.

Throughout the conversation you'll hear Justin highlight the importance of bringing aviation expertise and mindset as a prerequisite of success, and how this is still a rare find in the industry.

We also touched on the relative pros and cons of B2B and B2C drone delivery business models in terms of time to market and ease of proving a safety case.

And before taking a dive into the medical delivery use case, Justin shared what the Part 107 BVLOS waiver process looks like and what went into their 300 page submission to the FAA.

And as we talked about the medical delivery use case, Justin went into a much appreciated level of detail describing the CONOPS, all of the associated elements, value proposition for hospitals and communities, and other operational and product details that are often overlooked.

Towards the end of the conversation, we also talked about UTM, detect and avoid, drone type certification, operational approvals, and of course advice to entrepreneurs who are considering entering the drone market.

Justin Steinke is the Senior Vice President of Commercial Business at Spright where he is focused on delivering scalable unmanned solutions into medical use cases as well as providing turnkey inspection services to electric utilities. With 20 years of aviation experience and start up leadership, Justin is highly experienced in system design, manufacturing, analytics solutions and communication systems for the DoD and UAS industries. Prior to Spright, Justin led teams at Volair, LLC, GE Aviation AiRXOS, Data Into Knowledge (DN2K) and Simulyze, Inc., across engineering, product management and strategic business development. Justin holds a Bachelor of Science degree in Aviation Technology & Finance and is a Commercial Rated Pilot and former Flight Instructor.

#32 Geoff Bower, Archer: designing and commercializing eVTOL aircraft

Fri, 06 Jan 2023 11:00:00 -0500

Today’s conversation is with Geoff Bower, Chief Engineer at Archer Aviation, a developer of electric vertical take off and landing – or eVTOL – aircraft.

Geoff is one of the most renowned engineers in the eVTOL arena, and we sat down for an in-depth discussion on developing and commercializing eVTOL aircraft. We start the conversation with a high level description of a day in the life of a chief engineer of a pioneering aircraft company, which sets the stage for a discussion about the assumptions and design tradeoffs that Goeff and his team faced when figuring out the requirements for an aircraft and mission for which there is really no historical precedent to rely on.

One of our favorite parts of the conversation is when Geoff talks about the design and development tools, including multidisciplinary optimization and simulation tools developed internally at Archer, that were used to arrive at what Geoff calls productivity requirements of payload, range, and speed, as well as other requirements related to the infrastructure footprint, turnaround time, manufacturability, maintainability and many others.

You will also hear from Geoff about the reasons for going with a battery electric and piloted configuration, as opposed to an autonomous aircraft with a hybrid or hydrogen propulsion system, about the economics of eVTOLs, and a deep dive into the certification process, system safety process, as well as differences between the FAA and EASA when it comes to probabilities for catastrophic failure conditions.

Enjoy the conversation with Geoff Bower!

#31 Stanford Professor Mykel J. Kochenderfer: building robust systems, ACAS X

Tue, 03 Jan 2023 01:00:00 -0500

Today’s discussion is with Mykel Kochenderfer, Associate Professor of Aeronautics and Astronautics at Stanford University. He is the director of the Stanford Intelligent Systems Laboratory (SISL), conducting research on advanced algorithms and analytical methods for the design of robust decision making systems.

When one of our previous guests recommended we speak with Mykel, he said that Mykel led the ACAS-X effort (a very successful and recent airborne collision avoidance system for our listeners who may not know) and would have a really cool view on practical implementation and validation of autonomy.

Mykel talks about building highly robust systems that interact with humans in the real world, he discusses the team behind Airborne Collision Avoidance System X (or ACAS-X), what drove the need for ACAS-X, how it was accomplished, and its terrific results.

You will hear about the practical implementation, validation, and implementation of autonomy in aviation and AAM. His discussion around autonomy is important for everyone to hear, and that although elements of autonomy are a long way off in aviation and advanced air mobility , he has confidence that AI and autonomy can be applied to many areas of aviation and advanced air mobility.

Also we have a great discussion around simulation, its importance, and the different types of simulation.

#30 Dr. Will Roper: defense, digital engineering, building dual use businesses

Mon, 19 Dec 2022 17:00:00 -0500

If you want to learn about the future of warfare, the war in Ukraine, digital transformation and defense, and how to work with the government, you’ll want to hear our talk with Dr. Will Roper, a physicist and foreign policy strategist who served as the 13th Assistant Secretary of the Air Force for Acquisition, Technology and Logistics, overseeing procurement for the U.S. Air Force and Space Force from 2018 to 2021.

#29: Greg Brenneman; Leadership in Aviation, Business, and Investment

Tue, 06 Dec 2022 06:00:00 -0500

You’ll really enjoy our talk with Greg Brenneman. Getting insight from a leader in aviation, business, and investment gives us a great and broad perspective as we innovate at the intersection of tech and flight.

Some of you may know Greg as the President of Continental Airlines and an extraordinary airline and turnaround leader, some as a CEO or Board member of a number of large companies, and some know Greg as Executive Chairman of CCMP Capital Advisors, a leading private equity firm.

What we discuss:

· Greg shares his perspective on the aviation industry today – and how it has evolved in the last several years and the extra level of discipline that COVID brought to the airline industry.

· We discuss how technology has evolved over the years, and listen to the opportunities Greg believes could be addressed by today’s technology companies.

· Listen to his perspectives on advanced mobility – how he would view advanced mobility if running an airline today – and the many near and long-term opportunities for advanced mobility.

· And for AAM companies who intend to be both OEMs and operators; what to be aware of and pay attention to.

· Listen to what he looks for in companies he’s about to invest in – and the leadership of those companies.

· And the first steps Greg takes when running a company or turning around a company – and the lessons from his one sheet of paper.

· And listen to the advice he gives to the innovator and the business leader.

Thanks again Greg!

#28 Dennis Muilenburg: AAM strategic perspective

Sat, 19 Nov 2022 13:00:00 -0500

In this episode, we have the great pleasure of talking to Dennis Muilenburg.

Dennis needs no introduction, but let’s highlight a few of his accomplishments – before his current role as CEO and Chairman of the Board of New Vista Acquisition Corporation, a Special Purpose Acquisition Company – or SPAC – Dennis was CEO and Chairman of the board of Directors at The Boeing Company, where he started as an engineering intern in 1985.

In his close to 40 years of experience in aerospace and defense, Dennis has seen it all: from engineering and program management of advanced civil and future combat systems (including the F-22, Airborne Laser, the Condor reconnaissance aircraft, and High Speed Civil Transport)…to leading the development and implementation of operational and growth initiatives across the Boeing enterprise.

Relevant to our discussion today, Dennis led the formation of Boeing Horizon X, an innovation arm focused on startup investments in high growth areas of autonomy, propulsion, cybersecurity, space systems, computing, advanced air mobility, advanced materials, and a few others.

Given his deep aerospace roots, his visionary mindset, and the fact that he ran a company that has had a dramatic impact on humanity, we asked Dennis to talk about the aviation industry (including advanced air mobility) from a strategic perspective, and to give the entrepreneurs in our audience a taste of what it’s like to run a global aerospace company.

Listen to what Dennis considers the key geostrategic forces acting on aviation, how new technologies could change the distribution of profits along the aviation value chain, the role of autonomy, and how the convergence of mega markets and mega technology trends set the stage for the most innovative decade in the history of aviation. We also discuss the potential for near term use cases in advanced air mobility such as drone delivery to revolutionize logistics and e-commerce.

Lastly, Dennis shares invaluable advice to entrepreneurs on how to navigate the aerospace industry and build a culture of courage and humility.

#27 Lorenzo Murzilli: EASA regulations, building a drone business in Europe

Tue, 08 Nov 2022 11:00:00 -0500

In this episode we speak with Lorenzo Murzilli, CEO of Murzilli Consulting. We discuss the state of the drone market in Europe, including the rate of commercial drone adoption, differences between EU and US, remaining gaps, and EASA regulations.

Listen to Lorenzo’s continuous emphasis on and importance of being aware of the hurdles in starting and running a drone business - and to embrace and not avoid these hurdles!

To that end, you’ll really enjoy our start-up case study – where we conduct a deep dive with Lorenzo into building a drone business in Europe - from idea and CONOPS to design verification and operational approvals, and the pitfalls and traps you want to avoid.

#26 Jim O'Sullivan: Matternet commercial drone certification

Wed, 26 Oct 2022 09:00:00 -0400

In this episode we’re speaking with Jim O’Sullivan, VP Regulatory Strategy and Special Projects at Matternet.

In case you missed it, Matternet became the first commercial delivery drone manufacturer to receive type certification from the FAA in September 2022. This is an important industry milestone because, according to the FAA, operators that want to provide a regular commercial delivery service beyond visual line of sight need to run their operations under a Part 135 air carrier operating license…and this in turn requires type certified drones. So, we asked Jim to join us and talk about the drone type certification process: what it looks like, how long it took, all the twists and turns along the way, including the remaining challenge of certifying so called associated elements, meaning all parts of the drone system that do not fly, such as the ground control station and the datalink.

We also talk about the commercial drone industry broadly: state of the market today and upcoming milestones. And for those of you thinking about starting a drone business, you’ll want to hear Jim’s advice.

#25 Richard Aboulafia; Industry Insights

Mon, 10 Oct 2022 18:00:00 -0400

There are few who are more listened to in our industry than Richard Aboulafia, Managing Director at AeroDynamic Advisory.

We start with a discussion of the macro trends and drivers influencing the commercial and defense aviation markets. Then we engage in a terrific discussion on the future of aviation – and how geopolitics and technology will shape aviation in the coming years. Of course we talked about AAM – and what areas Richard is excited about as well as his concerns – and why. And a great discussion on sustainability, including a detailed discussion around SAF.

Richard, thanks for joining us!

#24 Christian Ramsey and Ryan Braun: next-generation avionics for manned and unmanned flight

Mon, 26 Sep 2022 17:00:00 -0400

Today we welcome Christian Ramsey and Ryan Braun from uAvionix to discuss next-generation avionics.

Ryan and Christian lead a successful company with real products for clear industry use-cases – in this case with size, weight, and power-optimized avionics – while straddling both the manned and unmanned markets. Listen to their conversation on the benefits of being in both markets. This is so important as we hear from so many who have yet to build their capabilities, are hoping for a variety of conditions that may or may not occur, with use-cases that have yet to be proven.

The uAvionix approach speaks to the benefits of building capabilities that have a rapid return on investment in today’s market for today’s needs – while creating capabilities in unmanned markets that, yes, exist today, and have the potential to rapidly and expansively grow in size and scope.

We talk about the technologies necessary for the integration of UAS into the airspace system: autopilots, command & control radios, high integrity GPS receivers, cloud-based beyond visual line of sight command & control networks, and ADS-B. You’ll enjoying hearing about what drove the need for ADS-B – why it was so important to our industry and for the foundation of uAvionix, why it is and isn’t a good option for small drones, and yet so important for manned aircraft.

We discuss the AAM supply chain, the role of certified avionics in the unmanned aircraft industry, vertical integration as well as lessons learned in building and selling a profitable and fast-growing avionics company serving both the unmanned and manned markets.

One of the many reasons uAvionix has been successful is that they took an established capability and introduced it to markets with clear use-cases. Listen to how they took their tech to smaller airports, where the airports are sometimes blind when understanding airspace around them…and where a lot happens on ramps and taxiways and where coordination is historically through verbal communication. ADS-B brings the same benefits to an airport that it brings to aircraft…helping to prevent, in this case ground incursions and providing a full range of intelligence, including where aircraft come and where they’re going, as well as providing runway friction information. And rather than building their own business intelligence platforms and selling them throughout this vast market, they partnered with companies that already have their own platforms and broad market acceptance, as represented with the recent market announcement of their recent partnership with PASSUR Aerospace.

Finally, listen to the importance of growing a viable, profitable company from the offset – listen to their advice on the importance of running profitable operations from the beginning – which builds a stronger and more attractive opportunity should the time be right to raise funds for more expansive opportunities.

You’ll enjoy listening their to experiences in the early days of their business – echoing what many of our business leaders have said as they started their businesses – and the fundamentals they would pass along to our audience of budding and established business leaders.

#23 Omer Sharar: Dealing with GPS Vulnerabilities

Tue, 13 Sep 2022 01:00:00 -0400

Today we're talking about global navigation satellite systems - or GNSS - and in particular, their vulnerabilities to jamming and spoofing. Joining us in the conversation is Omer Sharar, CEO of infiniDome, a GPS security company based in Israel.

As a society, we have come to rely on GPS for countless things we do every day - to determine a position, navigate, track our packages, use maps, and to determine precise and accurate timing. At the same time, we have come to accept it as almost a given, and most of us are not necessarily even aware of the vulnerabilities of GPS.

That's what this episode is about: we discuss what happens when a GPS signal is jammed, how easy it is to jam a GPS signal, how often it happens, and who cares about it. Omer shines light on the demand signals in the defense and civil markets, where the pain point is most acute, how big of a risk GPS jamming poses to drone operations at scale...and importantly, how to deal with this risk.

Omer also talks about how the FAA and EASA think about GPS jamming as a threat to safety, how the industry is solving GPS-denied navigation, and also what kind of GPS jamming is happening in the war in Ukraine.

Enjoy the conversation with Omer!

#22 Lisa Ellman: AAM policy and regulations

Mon, 29 Aug 2022 11:00:00 -0400

In this episode we talk to Lisa Ellman, Executive Director of the Commercial Drone Alliance and Partner at Hogan Lovells.

Our discussion focuses on the regulatory and policy aspects of Advanced Air Mobility, and in particular the commercial drone industry. Among other things, Lisa shares her thoughts and insights on Remote ID, operations over people, BVLOS (Beyond Visual Line of Sight) ARC (Aviation Rulemaking Committee) recommendations and how/when the FAA might implement them into actual rulemaking, privacy concerns, air rights, drone type certification (including associated elements operational approval) and other regulatory factors driving the commercial drone industry.

Listen to Lisa’s description of and takeaways from the August 2022 White House AAM summit, and advice to entrepreneurs entering the world of Advanced Air Mobility.

#21 Professor Olivier de Weck, Tech Roadmapping and AAM

Tue, 16 Aug 2022 07:00:00 -0400

Better returns from tech investments, opportunities for innovators, what to focus on in AAM, challenges to overcome, batteries, and what will make AAM successful – you’ll want to listen to this conversation twice with Professor de Weck from MIT. He is the award winning author of “Engineering Systems: Meeting Human Needs in a Complex Technological World” and the week of our podcast released his new book: "Technology Roadmapping and Development."

#20 Jeff Smith, Chair, Helicopter Association International

Thu, 28 Jul 2022 09:00:00 -0400

So here’s a great discussion with Jeff Smith, Chair of the huge Helicopter Association International. This podcast will be an eye opener for many – on how the helicopter industry has embraced AAM, and that the AAM industry should work collaboratively with the helicopter industry to ensure the same successes and overcome the challenges to help scale the AAM industry to eventual success.

#19 General James Poss: How drones are changing the battlefield

Mon, 18 Jul 2022 01:00:00 -0400

James Poss is a retired United States Air Force Major General and now Founder and Chief Executive of ISR Ideas, an intelligence and unmanned aircraft systems consulting firm. His distinguished 30-year Air Force career in military intelligence included combat experience in four wars. Before transitioning out of the military General Poss was the Air Force’s senior career intelligence officer.
In this episode you’ll hear General Poss talk about the military cultural imperatives that drove the adoption of drones in each of the branches of the US military, a brief history of military use of drones as far back as 80+ years ago, and how the capabilities of today’s UAS systems compared to the drones that General Poss used in the Gulf War and over the Balkans in the 1990s.
He shares what drone use cases the military has made tremendous progress on, and also the missions where sadly this is not the case. We also talked about the use of drones in the war in Ukraine, thoughts on where the military and commercial drone industries might be 5 and 10 years from now, trusted autonomy, military acquisition process, advice to entrepreneurs, and much much more.

#18 Ed Bolen, NBAA

Wed, 06 Jul 2022 06:00:00 -0400

We welcome Ed Bolen, President & CEO of NBAA to The Vertical Space! At a time when so many are focusing on the building the flying vehicles, listen how Ed discusses what has made business aviation as vital as it is today – and if AAM wants to be successful, it should consider the ingredients of the business aviation success.

#17 Rex Alexander: AAM Infrastructure

Mon, 20 Jun 2022 22:00:00 -0400

We sat down with Rex Alexander - one of the preeminent global leaders on the topic of vertical flight infrastructure - and uncovered an entire pandora’s box of important infrastructure issues including the catch 22 involving eVTOL performance, passenger tolerance for ride quality, and business models. Rex takes the time to explain in painful detail all the different regulatory layers that impact heliports and vertiports: from federal down to local, and how they influence timelines and locations where vertiports are most likely to show up….and in the process we also highlight gaps in existing regulations.

We touched on so many other thought provoking topics: vertiport ownership models, how operator business models impact vertiports (or the other way round!), who stands to make the most money on infrastructure, opportunities for entrepreneurs in the number of cottage industries that will emerge on the back of vertiports, factors impacting public acceptance, the wild west of droneports, advice for entrepreneurs…and what vertiport designers can learn from the elevator industry. Enjoy the conversation with Rex!

#16: MIT Professor Donald R. Sadoway, global battery expert

Mon, 06 Jun 2022 19:00:00 -0400

Professor Donald R. Sadoway is one world’s top experts on energy and batteries – one of the most important topics in our society, in aviation, and in AAM. There are few more important topics to our industry – and who better than Professor Sadoway to educate us on the topic – and talk about where we are and where innovation can take us.

Professor Sadoway is the John F. Elliott Professor of Materials Chemistry in the Department of Materials Science and Engineering at MIT. He’s the author of over 180 scientific papers and holder of 35 U.S. patents, is the founder of six companies, and his TED talk has been viewed over 2,400,000 times. In 2012 he was named by Time magazine as one of the 100 Most Influential People in the World.

#15: J. (Josh) Storrs Hall “Where Is My Flying Car?”

Tue, 24 May 2022 09:00:00 -0400

We were delighted to interview the author of “Where Is My Flying Car,” J. (Josh) Storrs Hall. Check it out if you want to know what slowed the introduction of the flying car and how advanced air mobility can become a reality. A podcast worth listening to – and a great read! Thanks Josh for joining our show.

#14 Chris Hewlett: UTM

Mon, 09 May 2022 13:00:00 -0400

Today we’re taking a look into the future of air traffic management with Chris Hewlett, a retired naval aviator with 30 years of experience in aviation operations, safety, modernization, and optimization of next generation aviation systems. In the conversation that follows, Chris offers thought provoking insights on how we as an industry should be thinking about the management of a truly integrated airspace system that’s agnostic to the type of user, be it small drones, general aviation, commercial aviation, or military aviation….and how current approaches to UTM are not quite aligned with this end goal. Chris draws parallels to best practices in the military, and talks about the pioneering work being done in North Dakota as part of the Vantis project. Enjoy the conversation with Chris!

#13 The Honorable James H. Burnley IV

Tue, 26 Apr 2022 06:00:00 -0400

It was our great pleasure to have The Honorable Jim Burnley on The Vertical Space. Jim has a vast background and wealth of experience, including as the former United States Secretary of Transportation. Jim provides his perspective on the free market, on transportation issues overall, on aviation, and how advanced air mobility fits into the big picture of transportation and logistics. Listen to Jim’s answer to the question of how he would evaluate a transportation system. We speak to many in our industry who are at times critical of our regulators – listen to Jim’s recommendations on working with regulators – a lesson for so many in our industry if they want to advance their technology. And listen to Jim’s recommendations to our entrepreneurs – how often do you directly hear recommendations from someone of Jim’s background and perspective? A smart, tough, experienced, knowledgeable national and global transportation leader who doesn’t hesitate to tell it like it is – enjoy this conversation Secretary Burnley. Thanks for joining us, Jim!

#12 Jia Xu, Honeywell

Tue, 12 Apr 2022 07:00:00 -0400

Check out this insightful conversation with Jia Xu, the senior director of strategy for the unmanned aerial systems and urban air mobility at Honeywell Aerospace, where he leads strategy, business development, and M&A. Jia discusses how to increase access to and utilization of the vertical space. He also discusses AAM in general, autonomy, fly by wire, artificial intelligence – and use cases for AI, including defense. Listen to Honeywell’s strategy, dedication, and approach to AAM and how Honeywell is innovating from a fresh slate for AAM. Jia also talks about the megatrends in AAM and avionics, needed ground infrastructure, as well as opportunities for our entrepreneurs, how Honeywell works with startups, and investments being made in this space. A thoughtful, articulate, detailed, yet expansive discussion. Thanks Jia for joining us!

#11 Bobby Healy, Manna

Mon, 28 Mar 2022 12:00:00 -0400

Bobby is a proven and remarkable entrepreneur and industry innovator. He has started and sold successful companies and is now pioneering service delivery with his start up, ‘Manna’ - a Drone Delivery as a Service business. Listen to what makes Bobby special, how Manna delivers value today, their tech stack, their essential value and competitive advantages, his comments on certification, and how they plan to scale. Additionally, listen to qualities he looks for in his new hires, the advice he gives to those starting a business, and those who he turns to for advice. There are common qualities of great innovators and business pioneers – see if you can identify those qualities in Bobby. Thanks Bobby for being our guest!

#10 Pasha Saleh: Alaska Airlines

Mon, 14 Mar 2022 12:00:00 -0400

In this episode we talk to Pasha Saleh, Head of Corporate Development at Alaska Airlines. Pasha is one of those industry leaders with a rare combination of experience in startups, large aerospace corporations, and management consulting – and on top of that he’s an airline pilot who still flies 737s at Alaska. This diverse background makes for an interesting perspective on the future of aviation – one that recognizes current times as the new golden age of aviation, but also tempered with a sense of realism known only to those that are deep in the aviation trenches. Among other things, we talk about Alaska’s commitment to reach net zero carbon emissions by 2040, technologies that will help decarbonize aviation, and the role of Alaska Star Ventures in helping the industry get there. Enjoy the conversation with Pasha!

#9 Peter Cerda: IATA, industry harmonization

Mon, 28 Feb 2022 11:00:00 -0500

Our guest is Peter Cerda – IATA’s Regional VP of the Americas. It’s a fun, fast-moving podcast. Peter provides a global perspective on a range of topics, including the role of commercial aviation and how it is recovering today – stronger in some areas more than others. Peter discusses how returning to 2019 performance isn’t good enough as well as commercial aviation’s sustainability goals. He provides his perspective on AAM – it’s challenges, and the value it may provide to the world’s travelers, including providing service to areas not served today, while maintaining today’s high safety standards. For our entrepreneurs – Peter discusses the importance of tech in achieving commercial aviation’s goals, what tech has worked, and what tech is needed for the future. Thanks for joining The Vertical Space, Peter!

#8 Chris Anderson: Kittyhawk

Mon, 14 Feb 2022 18:00:00 -0500

Another stimulating podcast! In this episode, we interview Chris Anderson, the COO and Chief Product Officer of Kittyhawk. Foundational to this podcast is the importance Kittyhawk is placing on autonomy and an affordable aircraft. Listen to why Chris and Kittyhawk are so confident about autonomy. Also listen to our discussion on performance-based certification…about operating at automotive scale…which is critical for the affordable vehicle. Chris has a fresh perspective on infrastructure and infrastructure requirements …and where these aircraft may land…with a low-touch model. And for you entrepreneurs…what it will take to use the sky more effectively … and the fresh new opportunities in AAM. We also had to sneak in a few questions from his distinguished past – e.g., as the author of The Long Tail, and from his days at helm of Wired magazine. This is a long interview – but it’s a fun ride. Enjoy.

#7 David Grizzle: A Bright Future

Mon, 31 Jan 2022 10:00:00 -0500

David Grizzle simply makes you think; he challenges how we’re thinking today around transportation – and has a vision for how our transportation will change and adapt. Listen to his thoughts and comments from his background as an airline executive, as a leader in Afghanistan in the early years as transportation was being established, and as the Chief Operating Officer of the FAA to realize that he speaks from experience. David has a refreshing perspective on how the change will occur – and that “muddling through” is the likely way to a different world vs. waiting for perfection, which may never come.

#6 Brendan Groves; Skydio

Sun, 16 Jan 2022 11:00:00 -0500

You’ll want to take notes on this podcast! It’s a great pleasure to have Brendan Groves on our show. You advanced mobility entrepreneurs will enjoy Brendan’s talk, generated from his unique background, education, and industry experience. Listen to his perspective on a number of AAM subjects, including policy – and address why bold policy and policy goals are important. Brendan provides unique perspectives on autonomy, the importance of the tight integration of software and hardware, of artificial intelligence, as well as the value of AAM with real world applications. He addresses the Blue Drone program, and the exciting and pioneering value Skydio is providing to its customers and to our industry. Thanks for joining us Brendan!

#5 Brandon Suarez: autonomy and airspace integration

Sat, 01 Jan 2022 05:00:00 -0500

In this episode we talk to Brandon Suarez from General Atomics Aeronautical Systems about autonomy, certification, technology, standards, integration of unmanned aircraft into the national airspace system and a lot more. You’ll hear Brandon discuss how the internet approach to product development does not necessarily work in aviation, how autonomy will likely be rolled out in terms of missions sets and types of aircraft, and how important it is for new entrants into the world of air mobility to understand the environment they are stepping into.

#4 Scott Drennan: engineering and manufacturing

Fri, 10 Dec 2021 06:00:00 -0500

In this episode you'll hear from Scott Drennan, an accomplished aerospace innovator and executive. We discuss the DC-3 and Model T "moments" for advanced air mobility, the challenges and opportunities for the industry to manufacture at automotive speed, best practices for leveraging advanced manufacturing and digital engineering, and much more. As we always do in this podcast, you'll hear Scott's advice to entrepreneurs looking to start a business in this new chapter of aviation.

#3 Mike Whitaker from Supernal, a Hyundai company

Sat, 04 Dec 2021 11:00:00 -0500

Few have Mike Whitaker’s background and senior executive experience in both aviation and in automotive air mobility. Mike speaks with authority and experience as the former Deputy Administrator and Chief NextGen Officer of the FAA, Group CEO of India’s largest travel conglomerate, a senior executive at United Airlines, and now a senior executive at Supernal, Hyundai’s Urban Air Mobility subsidiary. Mike discusses the transition from today’s air transportation system – with its remarkable safety record, to discussing what is required to transition to advanced air mobility. It’s a fresh perspective with a firm grounding on what will have to happen to get it right, be profitable, and safe.

#2 Jesse Kallman: use cases and building a business in AAM

Wed, 10 Nov 2021 12:00:00 -0500

Our guest today is Jesse Kallman, an accomplished aviation executive with broad experience in the unmanned aviation industry. We invited Jesse to speak on the podcast because he’s been a part of the commercial drone industry from its very beginning and he also founded and led a geospatial business within a large aerospace OEM, so for the entrepreneurs in our audience, his perspective and advice is very valuable. Among other things, you’ll hear Jesse talk about the early days at Airware, a pioneering drone software company, including some key takeaways for founders and investors from the company’s eventual collapse. Jesse also talks about the importance of understanding the customer problem and quantifying the value proposition, even for things that are difficult to quantify, like customer service or customer satisfaction. We touched on many other topics, including commercial drone use cases, state of the industry, how to think about crafting a compelling product offering, and also about building autonomous aircraft.

#1: Why we launched The Vertical Space

Thu, 04 Nov 2021 13:00:00 -0400

Welcome to Episode#1! In this episode we’ll talk about the business of The Vertical Space and discuss how drones, electric vertical takeoff and landing aircraft (eVTOL), electric aircraft, and all elements within advanced air mobility deliver value or plan to deliver value to their customers and their investors. We're going to discuss why we started the podcast, why we think the topic is important for so many, especially entrepreneurs, a little bit about ourselves - so you know who's behind the podcast - and we're going to talk about the upcoming topics and the types of guests who will be joining our show. We believe learning more about the business of advanced air mobility is important, relevant, exciting, rewarding, and even fun. Thanks for joining us!