In this episode, Robert breaks down why under-pricing rarely solves the objections it's meant to, how AI is quietly reshaping the conversation between agencies and enterprise clients, and what it actually means to use AI well in biz dev versus just delegating your thinking to a chatbot. He also gets into where agencies have a real window to build defensible value right now — and how long that window might be open.

What We Cover:

• The most common pricing mistakes Robert sees — and why under-pricing doesn't actually solve price objections
• Why the sale is almost always lost before the price is even mentioned
• What to ask when a prospect says "it's too expensive"
• How AI is starting to create pricing pressure — and why enterprise clients will feel it first
• The agencies winning with AI in biz dev versus the ones just delegating their thinking
• Using intent signals to reach fewer, better-fit prospects instead of blasting campaigns
• What to automate versus what to keep human in your sales process
• Distilling your expertise into if-then logic that AI can actually use
• Why data is the most valuable asset agencies are sitting on right now
• The race between software companies becoming agencies and agencies becoming software companies
• Where agencies have defensible ground over the next few years — and where they don't

Robert put together a free resource page specifically for Digital Agency Growth listeners — white paper, a free copy of his book, and a link to chat with him directly about your agency.

Go here: creativeagencysuccess.com/digitalagencygrowth

Sharon is a marketing and intellectual property attorney who has spent over a decade working exclusively with independent agencies through her firm Torek Law, which operates in the agency world as Legal + Creative. In this episode, she breaks down how agencies leave real money on the table by treating contracts as admin rather than leverage — and what to do instead.

We get into payment terms buried in enterprise agreements that silently stretch 60 days into 90, exclusivity clauses that punish agencies for the specialization clients hired them for, and the IP transfer timing that gives agencies more power than they realize. Sharon also makes the case for why having your own MSA matters even when the big brands will never sign it — and why deals almost never blow up when agencies push back at the contract stage.

What We Cover:

• Why legal should be a money-generating function, not a cost drag
• The payment term language in enterprise contracts that quietly kills cash flow
• How to negotiate exclusivity without giving away more than you need to
• Why you'll never have more leverage than you do right now, at the contract stage
• The IP transfer timing that can become serious financial leverage when a client goes sideways
• Building your own MSA toolkit — and why it matters even when you'll never use it
• Who should be in the room during contract negotiations (and what the lawyer's actual job is)
• How AI is changing the ownership question in agency-client and agency-freelancer agreements
• Turning proprietary frameworks, methodologies, and systems into licensable, sellable IP
• Why deals almost never fall apart when you push back — and what it signals when they do

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Most agencies lose pitches before they walk in the room. Here's why — and what to do about it.

Grant Gooding, founder of Proof Positioning, has helped agencies win high-stakes pitches using neuroscience, decision physiology, and a research process built on an FBI interrogation technique. The insights are counterintuitive and the results speak for themselves.

In this episode:

-Why 70% of agency pitches fail (and it's not your creative)
-The neuroscience behind why logic-only pitches can't be processed
-The RFP trap — and how box-checking makes you invisible
-How to de-risk a pitch for a multi-stakeholder buying group
-The FBI elicitation method that gets to the truth without asking questions
What "pre-work" looks like — and why it gives agencies an unfair advantage
Why "build me a website" almost always masks a bigger business problem
Grant's 3-step formula for winning the pitches that matter most
The threat to agencies from AI + holding company acquisitions — and how to fight back

Find Grant: proofpositioning.com

Buying patterns have changed - fast. If you're still pitching the same offers the same way you were two years ago, you're probably hearing "let's talk in three months" a lot. 

Mandi Ellefson returns to the show to break down what's actually happening out there, and what agencies and service firms can do about it.

A few things we got into:

• Why clients are freezing, shrinking scope, and pushing timelines — and what's really behind it
• The four-level service pyramid (staff augmentation → high-quality provider → proven ROI → growth partner) and where 80% of the market is stuck generating 20% of the profits
• The "Power of One" formula: one client, one painful problem, one transformation — and why offers built around it command dramatically higher fees
• Why hiring a salesperson before your go-to-market system is built usually makes things worse, not better
• The blind spot most agency owners have when they think "I just need more sales"
• How a sales admin can own 70–80% of the referral and partnership process so the owner only shows up for the conversations
• A real example of an agency that niched into elder care, went from five-figure to seven-figure engagements, and is on a path to $10M

Resources mentioned:

Mandi's upcoming training on the Hands-Off Growth Operating System: handsoffceo.com/briefing

Resources Mentioned

Llama Lead Gen: https://www.llamaleadgen.com/
— Marketing budgeting and PPC calculators available on the site

Lead Gen in the Wild Podcast: Available on Spotify, Apple, and wherever you listen 

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Most agencies treat the RFP as the cost of doing business. Chris Rose has built a career out of sidestepping them entirely — landing clients like Hilton, Planet Fitness, and NBC Universal along the way.

Chris serves as Executive Director of Growth at Cylinder Studios, a design and production studio within the Cheil Agency Network. Before that, he led new business at Movers and Shakers. We got into why RFPs are almost always poorly written, how to bypass procurement with preferred vendor status, what's changing with AI and pricing, and why the best pitch teams are smaller than you'd think.

What You'll Leave With:
- Diagnose before you pitch — co-write the brief with the client
- Become a preferred vendor to bypass procurement
- Smaller pitch teams win more
- Production is the new strategy
- Stay close to the work after you win it

Connect with Chris on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chris-rose22/
Cylinder Studios: https://www.cylinderstudios.com/

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Most agency owners assume nobody can sell as well as they can. Lori Cox built an agency, sold it, and then took a BizDev leadership role — and says she's actually sharper at sales now that she's not running the whole show.

Lori brings 20+ years of B2B marketing and revenue experience. She built and sold a full-service healthcare-focused agency, then moved into VP of BizDev at Knack Collective, where she works with global tech companies on partner-led go-to-market strategies. We got into the systems that made her agency sellable, why most partnership pitches go nowhere, and how the inbound/outbound mix has shifted heading into 2026.

What You'll Leave With:

• Systems before salespeople
• Partnerships require intention and attention
• Diversify your pipeline, not just your client base
• Non-owners can be better salespeople
• AI is changing the job, not replacing it

Connect with Lori on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lori-cox-mba/

Knack Collective: https://knackcollective.com/

Check out our new video training. 

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What happens when years of planting seeds finally meets the right market moment?

Alexis Trammel is Chief Growth Officer at Stratabeat, a B2B SaaS organic growth agency. She recently transitioned from account management into a biz dev role.  But the real story is how timing and preparation collided. For years, Stratabeat was doing the unglamorous work: niching down, building LinkedIn presence, publishing original research, speaking at conferences, nurturing relationships. Then GEO (generative engine optimization) hit right as AI anxiety peaked, and suddenly the leads started flooding in. This conversation explores what it looks like when the groundwork you've been laying finally pays off, and why most agencies aren't ready when their moment arrives.

What You'll Leave With:

• Why lead flow needs to exist before you hire a salesperson—not the other way around
• How years of niching down positioned them to catch the GEO wave
• The compounding value of original research, LinkedIn presence, and conference visibility
• Why internal sales hires often outperform external ones when the foundation is there
• How to keep planting seeds even when you're not sure which one will sprout
• The seasonality reality and why "when it rains, it pours" cuts both ways

Timestamps:

• [00:00] Introduction to Alexis Trammel and Stratabeat
• [02:36] The long road of niching down and eliminating services
• [03:19] When AI panic created unexpected demand for GEO
• [05:16] Original research as a lead gen and credibility play
• [07:46] Coming back from maternity leave to a sales opportunity
• [10:00] Why the lead flow has to come before the sales hire
• [11:47] Wearing both the sales and marketing hats
• [14:10] Planning for seasonality when you're riding a wave
• [16:41] LinkedIn as long-term brand building, not cold outreach
• [22:04] GEO converting better than almost everything except referrals
• [30:12] The relationship groundwork that makes referrals possible

Mentioned Resources / Links:

• Stratabeat - B2B SaaS organic growth agency
• Never Eat Alone by Keith Ferrazzi
• Alexis Trammell on LinkedIn
• Tom Shapiro on LinkedIn

Leah Leaves is the founder and CEO of Alderaan Operations, where she embeds operations directors and part-time digital project managers directly into remote agencies.  In this conversation, she reveals what's happening when clients question an agency's value - asking for more deliverables, questioning reports, or wondering why they can't just use cheap tools themselves. 

A few things we covered: 

• Why the same operational bottlenecks agencies have always had are now happening at 10x-100x speed
• The exact question clients are asking agencies right now (and how the best agencies are answering it)
• How agencies are reinvesting time saved by AI into client experience, productized tools, and advisory services
• The "bionic org chart" framework for documenting what AI owns versus what humans own
• A practical system for turning meeting transcripts into searchable client context that actually gets used
• Why hiring people who want to stay static in their role is a feature, not a bug
• The shift from deliverables-based positioning to strategic marketing partner (and why AI makes this more urgent)

Timestamps:

• [00:00] Introduction: Leah Leaves and the state of agency operations
• [01:26] Same issues, 10x-100x speed: What's really changing with AI
• [03:37] The question clients are asking: "What am I paying you for?"
• [06:38] How agencies are answering the value question differently
• [11:15] Moving from execution to advisory: Selling thinking, not deliverables
• [15:30] The art of productive client meetings (and why most fail)
• [20:45] Hiring strategy: Finding people who want to grow vs. stay static
• [29:47] The bionic org chart: Documenting AI's role on your team
• [32:17] Practical AI implementation: Turning meeting notes into searchable knowledge
• [34:20] Ideas that wouldn't exist without reduced latency
• [35:29] Where to find Leah and learn more about operation

Alderaan Operations - Leah's company embedding ops directors in agencies

Leah Leaves on LinkedIn - Connect with Leah

Check out our new video training: https://hey.salesschema.com/opt-in-mw-referral-engine

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What if successful agency business development isn't about having the perfect system, but about showing up consistently in the right conversations?

John Caruso is the Director of Business Development at Vendilli, where he's spent the last six years navigating the messy reality of agency growth. With a decade of BD experience spanning traditional and digital agencies, John has learned that there's no magic formula, just consistent effort in the right places. In this conversation, he shares the unglamorous truth about what BD actually looks like day-to-day, why agency owners set their BD hires up to fail by expecting results too quickly, and how he learned the craft by sitting in dozens upon dozens of sales meetings with his team. 

What You'll Leave With:

• The realistic timeline for a BD hire to become truly effective at an agency
• How to structure your day when client needs constantly derail your plans
• Why sitting in sales meetings with experienced agency owners builds BD skills faster than any course
• The "shortlist" dynamic that determines whether prospects even consider your agency
• How to think about the division between marketing and sales activities
• What systems need to exist before bringing on a dedicated BD person
• An education-first approach to staying top of mind without being pushy

Timestamps:

• [00:00] Introduction: John's journey from traditional to digital agency BD
• [02:30] The reality of a day in the life of agency business development
• [05:40] What activities consistently drive revenue for agencies
• [10:30] Why getting on prospect "shortlists" matters more than perfect positioning
• [15:45] Moving beyond transactional referral requests
• [20:15] How the BD landscape has shifted over the past decade
• [28:34] What needs to be in place before hiring a BD person
• [29:04] The learning curve: why it takes 6-9 months minimum to see results
• [31:10] How Vendilli divides marketing and sales responsibilities
• [33:25] Where to learn more about John and Vendilli

Vendelli: https://www.vendilli.com/ 

John on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/johncaruso-vendilli/

In this episode, Dan breaks down why the classic "let me know if you know anyone who needs our services" approach fails almost every time, and walks through a systematic process for turning your existing network into a consistent source of warm introductions, tastefully. 

What You'll Leave With:

• Why asking "know anyone who might need our services?" puts massive cognitive load on your contacts (and what to ask instead)
• The three biggest referral mistakes agency owners make and how each one sabotages your results
• How vertical vs. horizontal relationships determine whether someone will refer you 
• The specific ask process: transitioning from categories of people to named individuals your connector actually knows
• A practical approach to mapping your LinkedIn network for "referral ready connectors" without spam
• Why strategic partnerships should be prototyped through referrals first, not started with commission structures
• How to think about the time investment: high-touch, high-leverage vs. volume plays that don't fit specialized agencies 

Resources 

Are you an upmarket-focused agency interested in setting up a referral-based new business system?  

Lets talk - go here for details: https://hey.salesschema.com/referral-engine-lp

Referrals already work for your agency, but you've never optimized them.  Learn how in our latest video training: https://hey.salesschema.com/opt-in-mw-referral-engine 

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This year-end review distills the most important lessons from a year of conversations with agency owners, researchers, and growth experts who've been in the trenches.

What You'll Leave With:

• Why trust has replaced awareness and differentiation as the scarce resource in agency growth
• The counterintuitive sales-to-delivery handoff that makes closing easier (even though it seems expensive)
• How to move referrals from passive hope to systematic pipeline generation
• The difference between economic headwinds as obstacles versus excuses
• Why specialization is no longer a debate but table stakes for competitive agencies
• The rise of agency perspective 
• An under-discussed macro trend that could reshape entire marketing niches over the next few years

Episodes Referenced:  

-Nick Petroski: https://salesschema.com/the-data-you-need-before-you-build-your-2026-biz-dev-plan-with-nick-petroski/

-Brooke MacLean: https://salesschema.com/how-brooke-maclean-built-an-80-person-agency-with-zero-debt/

-Brock Murray: https://salesschema.com/scaling-past-50-employees-how-seo-plus-built-a-global-agency/

-Spencer Gallagher: 

-Stewart Gandolf:  https://salesschema.com/lessons-from-building-an-eight-figure-niche-agency-stewart-gandolf/

-Erik J. Olson:  https://salesschema.com/erik-j-olson-on-why-most-agencies-plateau-and-how-to-build-one-that-grows-predictably/

-Stephen Woessner: https://salesschema.com/stephen-woessner-on-the-smile-graph-ais-impact-on-agencies/

-Karl Sakas: https://salesschema.com/karl-sakas-on-scaling-smart-and-reclaiming-your-time/

-Todd Gagne: https://salesschema.com/karl-sakas-on-scaling-smart-and-reclaiming-your-time/

[Note: this is an encore of an episode originally aired 12/3/25]. 

If your agency is stuck in "the Cobbler's Children phase", where you deliver great work for clients but new business feels chaotic and reactive, this episode offers a way out. I'm sharing my referral workshop from the All In Agency Summit, condensed from 60 to 30 minutes of pure strategy. This isn't about random networking or hoping referrals happen. It's about installing a repeatable system that generates 2-5 targeted introductions weekly without cold outreach spam or burning out your team. 

What You'll Leave With:

• The four-level agency maturity model and how to identify which phase you're actually in
• Why the 2020 shift made trust—not awareness—the scarce resource in B2B sales
• The high school gym versus NFL stadium test for choosing the right lead gen strategy based on your market size
• A two-pronged outreach approach that keeps your pipeline full even when you're wearing too many hats
• The simple emotional game-changer that gets introductions to actually happen instead of sitting in limbo
• The one data tool you need to get started without expensive SaaS platforms
• Why asking for referrals is actually a positive-sum game that benefits everyone involved
• How to systematize client referrals so your account team generates opportunities automatically
• The sprint-to-marathon framework that proves this approach scales beyond your immediate network

In this episode, Dan Englander sits down with Alex Marshall, a longtime agency growth leader with two decades of experience across holding companies and independents, to unpack what really moves the needle. They explore why trust and relevance matter more than tactics, how storytelling shows up late in the sales cycle, and why relationships compound over time even when results aren’t immediate.

This is a grounded conversation about growth as a discipline, not a hack. 

🧭 What You’ll Learn

• The real differences between growth at holding companies vs independents
• Why agency specialization can both help and hurt sales
• How storytelling works after the first sales call
• Why “just checking in” emails fail
• What actually reactivates dormant or boomerang clients
• How to stay relevant to skeptical CMOs
• Why relationship-building beats short-term metrics
• How agencies should think about referrals and alliances

🕒 Timestamps

00:00 – Alex’s background and global agency experience 
 04:30 – Holding companies vs independents: growth tradeoffs
 06:00 – Relationship-building across regions and cultures
 10:20 – When specialization helps — and when it limits you
 16:45 – Storytelling as a sales tool, not just marketing
 20:40 – Coalition-building in complex B2B sales
 23:30 – Re-engaging dormant and boomerang clients
 26:40 – Why timing and relevance matter more than frequency
 29:20 – Managing time across the full funnel
 32:10 – Measuring progress without over-relying on metrics
 35:00 – Selling to skeptical CMOs in uncertain markets
 38:00 – Why referrals and trust compound over time
 41:00 – Strategic partnerships and being “something to someone”
 45:45 – Making referral asks easier — and more effective

In this solo episode, Dan reveals why Q1 consistently catches agencies off-guard and what separates those who stumble into the new year from those who hit the ground running. The secret isn't about working through the holidays or setting ambitious goals—it's about installing a systematic referral system during Q4's quieter moments. 

What You'll Leave With:

• Why trust, not awareness, became the scarce resource after 2020 and how it changes your approach
• The four stages agencies move through and how to identify which phase you're stuck in
• The "high school gym vs. NFL stadium" test for choosing the right lead generation strategy based on market size
• How to structure connector calls to get 2-5 quality referrals from a single conversation
• The simple human emotion that makes people actually follow through on promised introductions
• A two-pronged outreach system that keeps your pipeline full even when you're buried in client work
• Why making it easier for people to help you eliminates the awkwardness of asking for referrals
• The one free data tool you need to get started without expensive SaaS platforms

Timestamps:

• [00:00] Introduction: The strange Q4 gap period and what's coming
• [02:33] The Cobbler's children phase and why most agencies get stuck there
• [05:00] The four stages of agency growth and how they're detached from revenue
• [09:15] The 2020 trust recession and why cold outreach stopped working
• [12:30] High school gym vs. NFL stadium: Choosing the right strategy for your market
• [16:45] The systematic referral framework: How to generate warm intros weekly
• [21:20] Structuring connector calls to get 2-5 referrals per conversation
• [24:10] The emotional game changer that makes introductions actually happen
• [27:17] Common objections: "This seems like too much work" and "I'm worried about asking for help"
• [29:35] How this scales beyond your initial network (sprint, jog, run phases)
• [31:54] The Referral Engine Program and Referral Network Diagnostic offer

Quotes: 

"A lot of agencies end up in level two, which we call the Cobbler's children phase. They have a track record, they've produced results for clients, but new business is very reactive—it's very much catch as catch can." — Dan Englander

"After 2020, we saw a massive shift. Trust became the scarce resource, not awareness. Everyone's inbox is full, everyone's LinkedIn is saturated, and people have gotten really good at tuning out anything that feels like cold outreach." — Dan Englander

"If you're getting on a call a day—like an apple a day keeps the doctor away—or five calls a week, that is usually more than enough to hit 99% of sales goals." — Dan Englander

🧭 What You’ll Learn

• The referral trends shaping 2026 pipeline planning
• Why most agencies misread pipeline health
• What data actually predicts account growth
• The role of referrals in a tighter 2026 GTM
• Who should really own the referral process
• How to identify your most valuable connectors
• Why “good work” isn’t enough to drive intros
• What the best shops are fixing before January

🕒 Timestamps

00:00 – Why 2026 planning requires real data
 01:02 – Nick’s new research & why referrals matter now
 03:11 – From Random to Repeatable: core findings
 05:45 – Why agencies still handle referrals passively
 07:29 – The shrinking TAM + rising skepticism problem
 09:22 – Who should own referrals (and who shouldn’t)
 12:40 – Cross-sell models that actually grow accounts
 14:36 – Pipeline health vs conversion vs system health
 18:07 – How to operationalize intros without friction
 23:59 – The risk of relying on 1–2 referral sources
 27:26 – Why referrals must be part of your GTM
 29:15 – The mindset shift from “salesy” to consultative
 33:00 – What the data says agencies must fix for 2026

🔑 Key Quotes

“Referrals work—if you treat them like a system, not a hope.” — Nick Petroski“

Agencies don’t have a lead problem. They have a clarity problem.” — Nick Petroski

📢 Links and Resources 

From Random to Repeatable: How Agencies Turn Referrals into a Reliable Growth Engine

If you want a repeatable referral system heading into 2026, grab my book 📘 Relationship Sales at Scale

This conversation digs into why outbound has gotten tougher, what’s changed in the last decade, and how agencies can build a healthier, more defensible acquisition motion. We cover the shift from brute-force outreach to signal-driven, trust-based systems, why TAM size changes everything, and how sales and marketing need to operate as a single unit for mid-market deals. It’s a clear look at the mechanics behind winning in a crowded outreach landscape. 

Michael Maximoff is the co-founder of Belkins and the team behind Folderly. He’s spent more than a decade solving the same problems agencies face today: building predictable pipeline in a crowded, trust-heavy market, balancing marketing and sales investment, and adapting outbound to a world that no longer responds to direct pitches.

• Why cold outreach used to work with simple tools and high volume, and why that era is over
• How inbox competition jumped from ~100 cold pitches/month per decision-maker to 800+ today
• Why small TAMs require a different playbook and more precision, not more activity
• The importance of costly signals, warm intros, and touch-point-driven credibility instead of direct pitches
• How sales and marketing must operate in tandem to create “surround sound” and increase conversion likelihood
• Why mid-market agencies should hire full-cycle AEs who can build their own book of business
• The danger of giving SDRs outdated brute-force mandates in a world where the role is now a technical, marketing-adjacent function
• How deeper integrations (HubSpot, Salesforce, Clay) are reshaping outreach, personalization, and data orchestration
• Why agencies must choose the channel they have a true “genetic advantage” for.

Links & Resources

• Belkins — https://belkins.io
• Folderly — https://folderly.com
• Michael on LinkedIn — https://www.linkedin.com/in/maximoff

Garrett helps B2B agencies and service businesses replace scattered marketing efforts with a focused GTM strategy built on customer proof — clarifying audience, offer, messaging, and channels so growth stops being a guessing game.

They break down why most agencies start with the wrong things (channels before clarity), how to pick the right market segment, and how to make growth repeatable without losing focus or burning resources.

 What You’ll Learn

• Why most agencies get stuck after $1M — and how to fix it
• The four foundations of a real GTM system: Audience, Offer, Messaging, Channels
• How to pick one market segment and own it (without overthinking TAM)
• Why you can’t scale custom work — and what to do instead
• The “maintenance and support” offer that helped one agency grow faster
• When to productize vs. stay bespoke
• How to make referrals and warm intros systematic, not lucky
• Why every audience–offer combo needs its own GTM strategy
• How to align sales, marketing, and delivery around the same message

They dig into the nuances of business development, leadership, and scaling without losing your creative spark.

🧭 What You’ll Learn

• Bootstrapping an 80-person agency: how Brooke built Marketwake with no funding and no debt
• The 15% rule: why no client should ever represent more than 15% of your revenue
• Bringing your team into sales: how involving account leads early shortens cycles and builds trust
• Time as a sales lever: why real urgency beats fake scarcity every time
• Account-based marketing, redefined: how Marketwake blends data, relationships, and timing to reach dream clients
• Referrals, chemistry, and “the spark”: how authentic connection drives growth more than any funnel hack

Most “agency growth” tactics are built for high-volume, productized services with large addressable markets—not for boutique, complex-service agencies selling trust, nuance, and strategy to a few hundred ideal clients.

Dan calls this dynamic “The Great Mismatch.”

He unpacks why the standard playbooks fail, what constraints actually define upmarket agencies, and how to replace random referrals with a systematic, high-trust growth engine.

In this episode
• The Great Mismatch: How agency sales advice got optimized for SaaS and high-volume lead-gen firms, not for complex, relationship-driven work.
• The Three Constraints Framework: Why your resources, offer, and market size determine your best-fit growth strategy.
• The Trust Recession: Why decision-makers are slower to move, and how to build credibility in smaller, skeptical markets.
• High School Gym vs. NFL Stadium: How to visualize your true total addressable market and stop over-optimizing for scale.
• The Two-Pronged Framework: How to balance direct outreach with systematic referrals and partnerships.
• The Referral Engine Playbook: Step-by-step—identifying “Referral-Ready Connectors,” mapping your market in LinkedIn Sales Navigator, and running collaborative intro calls that produce real pipeline.
• Partnerships Without the Awkwardness: Why commission-based partner pitches don’t work and how to build trust-first collaboration loops.

Key Idea
“Most of what’s being sold as ‘agency growth’ advice assumes you have a sales team, a simple offer, and a massive market. But if your service is complex, your team is lean, and your clients are few, you need a different operating system entirely.” — Dan Englander

Resources Mentioned
Relationship Sales at Scale → salesschema.com/book
Referral Network Diagnostic Workshop → salesschema.com/diagnostic

Takeaway
For boutique agencies, growth doesn’t come from chasing more leads—it comes from getting more leverage out of the relationships you already have.

The sooner you recognize The Great Mismatch, the sooner you can build a system that actually fits your market, your team, and your offer.

This episode isn’t about tactics. It’s a quick tour through the lessons that seem to keep coming up again and again in our world, the stuff we all wrestle with if we’ve been selling complex services for a long time. 

Stuff I cover

• The trouble with the awkward commission pitch and a better way.
• The Low-Data Agency trap — why relying on reactive referrals clouds judgement.
• Going from reactive to proactive — what happens when you finally own your pipeline.
• The real meaning of specialization — how narrowing your market opens everything up.
• Why you should ship a “crappy” campaign and the power of imperfect action.
• The limits of intent data and why trust beats timing every time.
• Planning for an exit by dead-simple milestones.

🧭 What You’ll Learn

• The “Philosophical Futurist” Mindset
  How to face rapid change—especially around AI—without fear or cynicism.
• Inside The Bureau
  The story behind one of the most influential agency communities and how it evolved from a 24-person retreat to a 1,400-member ecosystem.
• The New Agency Model: Guilds & Partnerships
  Why the future favors hyper-specialized micro-teams that plug into clients like “turbo packs,” collaborating through shared KPIs and accountability—not time and materials.
• The Apathy Epidemic
  Why so many leaders feel burned out, how “easy mode” ended, and how to reignite autonomy, mastery, and purpose.
• Rethinking Retainers & Biz Dev
  Why traditional retainers may be giving way to “progress-based” models and how the best BD teams are closing deals through transparency, empathy, and calm persistence.

🔑 Quotes

“We didn’t know it then, but the early 2000s were easy mode. There was so much money and mystery around what we did. Now we have to be business people—and that’s okay.” — Carl Smith

“Some are way ahead with AI, some are stuck in the messy middle, and some still have their heads in the sand.” — Carl Smith

“If you wait for things to get back to normal, you’ll miss what is normal.”
— Carl Smith

🔗 Resources & Links

• The Bureau — thebureau.community
• Follow Carl on LinkedIn
• Connect with Dan Englander

What You’ll Learn in This Episode:

• What “leverage” really means for agencies and why it’s more valuable than chasing new leads.
• The three most common areas of hidden leverage: intellectual property, positioning data, and relationships.
• How to map your network to identify referral-ready connectors and multiply opportunities.
• Practical strategies to repurpose past work, frameworks, and wins to attract new business.
• The mindset shift from more to better, focusing on improving existing assets rather than constantly seeking new channels.
• Step-by-step actions to start activating leverage immediately, from client outreach to framework publishing.

Key Takeaways:

• Inventory your assets: past clients, testimonials, frameworks, partnerships, and wins.
• Prioritize small moves that have outsized impact.
• Reconnect strategically with relationships that can introduce you to your ideal prospects.
• Use your IP and insights to scale trust, not just output.
• Focus on amplification over acquisition: sometimes growth comes from refinement, not expansion.

⏱️ Timestamps

0:00 – Welcome and introduction: why the agency landscape feels confusing in 2025
2:10 – The “trust recession” and why agencies are more anxious than ever
5:00 – Why information is cheap but credibility is expensive
6:30 – Specialization as a core sales lever (not just a niche tactic)
9:45 – The fear that keeps most agencies from focusing
12:00 – What ruins deals when you’re not specialized
13:30 – Why the “show, don’t tell” principle beats overblown ROI claims
15:00 – Thought leadership as a frictionless entry point
17:30 – How to build thought leadership around your ICP (not your ego)
19:00 – Should the founder always be the face of the content?
21:30 – Balancing new client acquisition with organic growth
23:00 – Dan’s “Trust Matrix” for prioritizing outbound calls
24:30 – Systematizing referrals (without being weird about it)
26:00 – The three “food groups” of agency sales
28:00 – Why most agencies over-engineer outbound and underdeliver
29:30 – What’s surprised Dan about agency sales in recent years
31:00 – What smart agency owners are doing differently
32:00 – Where AI helps — and where it’s just shiny object syndrome
34:00 – Why more agencies will start to look like consultancies soon
35:00 – Where to go to learn more about Dan’s model

🔑 What You’ll Learn in This Episode

• Why we’re in a “trust recession” — and how it’s quietly killing cold outreach
• How to develop perspective, not just thought leadership
• Why specialization isn’t optional — it’s how you earn trust
• A practical way to turn your network into a referral engine
• The three-part system Dan recommends for reliable agency growth
• Who should own sales and content when you’re a small agency (and what to do if it’s you)
• Why agencies that ignore perspective end up sounding like everyone else
• The difference between old-school hustle and smart modern outbound

Brock shares the arc of his journey, from launching his first web hosting business at 14, to building seoplus+ with his partner Eddie, to scaling through multiple growth stages while navigating the challenges of delegation, client specialization, and leadership layers.

If you’re running an agency, this episode is a playbook on scaling without losing touch, adapting to seismic industry shifts like AI search, and building a growth engine that lasts.

⏱️ Timestamps

0:00 – Intro & Brock’s early start in web hosting at age 14

1:00 – Founding seoplus+ in 2012 and partnering with Eddie

2:00 – Growth stages: from the first hire to 10, 25, and 50 employees

3:30 – The challenge of scaling culture and building management layers

5:00 – Hybrid account management and the role of AMs in sales

7:00 – Upsells, long-term relationships, and winning bigger accounts

9:30 – Balancing farming existing clients vs. chasing new ones

12:00 – Building a partner program: from 20 informal partners to 80+ active ones

15:00 – Partnerships vs. web leads vs. outbound

16:00 – Scaling from meetups to AI-focused community events

18:00 – Outbound experiments: Apollo, coffee chats, and free AI brand audits

20:00 – Structuring partnerships transparently and acquiring a partner’s business

23:00 – Fractional CMOs (VCMOs) as high-value partners

24:00 – How Brock got out of the sales seat and what made it possible

27:00 – Building trust and reach through events—local vs. national scale

30:00 – Fewer clicks from Google, more searches on ChatGPT & Gemini

32:00 – Launching Generative Engine Optimization and building AI tools internally

34:00 – Why agencies can now afford to build internal products

35:00 – The future of SEO: rebrand or double down?

37:00 – Where to connect with Brock online

🔑 What You’ll Learn in This Episode

• How Brock scaled seoplus+ from two partners to a 50+ person global agency.
• The “resistance line” at 50 employees and how to push through.
• Why hybrid account management can be both a strength and a bottleneck.
• How to use events as a serious new business channel (without getting stuck locally).
• Why partnerships with VCMOs and boutique agencies can lead to acquisitions.
• How outbound campaigns, coffee chats, and case studies fuel growth.
• Why clicks from Google are dropping and what Generative Engine Optimization means for agencies.
• How to leverage AI tools internally to save hundreds of hours and increase ROI.
• The looming question: does SEO need a rebrand in the age of AI?

🔗 Links & Resources

• Relationship Sales at Scale™

But here’s the catch:

• They usually happen randomly.
• When you do ask for intros, it feels like giving people homework.
• And even if you’re consistent, it’s hard to know where the real opportunities actually are.

In this solo episode, I share my journey from the “analog networking” days of wandering trade shows… to running hundreds of cold campaigns during the trust recession… to finally cracking the code on how to make referrals systematic, scalable, and predictable.

You’ll learn:

• Why SaaS-style sales playbooks fail for agencies
• How to map your connectors against your market to uncover hidden paths into targeted accounts
• Why reducing friction, not persuasion, makes referrals stick
• The simple weekly cadence that can turn referrals from “rain dance” to irrigation system

⏱️ Timestamps

0:00 – Why cold outreach is failing and trust is everything

2:10 – The rise of trust-based selling in the agency world

5:40 – Why personalization alone isn’t enough in 2025

7:30 – How to ask for referrals the right way

9:45 – Building “circles of trust” and systems around relationships

13:00 – Using LinkedIn as a referral engine

16:00 – Why referrals still require consistency and structure

18:00 – The real reason most agency sales systems break

20:00 – Direct vs. indirect control: a smarter way to plan sales activity

22:30 – Metrics and referral math: how to reverse engineer deal flow

25:00 – Specialization as a sales advantage (and trust shortcut)

27:30 – Strategic partnerships beyond client referrals

29:00 – What kind of agencies thrive with Dan’s model

31:00 – What needs to be in place before handing off sales

33:00 – Dan’s biggest mindset shift about agency growth

34:00 – Where to learn more about Dan’s process

🔑 What You’ll Learn in This Episode

Why cold outreach is widening the trust gap—and what to do instead

How to turn random referrals into a repeatable, systemized sales engine

Why agency founders need to own sales before they delegate it

The one sales hire mistake that can cost you six months (and how to avoid it)

How specialization accelerates trust—and shortens your sales cycle

Eric shares the full arc of his journey, from accidentally starting an agency after hacking Yellow Pages spend for his plumbing business, to scaling a team of 40+, to building one of the most successful HubSpot implementations agencies in the world.

We dig into what it actually takes to get out of the sales seat, build second-layer leadership, and scale without losing your mind.

If you're running an agency, this is a masterclass in letting go, thinking bigger, and staying relevant in a fast-changing market.

⏱️ Timestamps

0:00 – Intro & Eric’s journey from plumbing franchises to marketing

2:30 – How $25K Yellow Pages spend turned into Blue Leads

4:00 – Betting on HubSpot before anyone cared

6:00 – From accidental agency to structured growth

9:00 – Discovering EOS and transforming the business

13:00 – Cash flow traps and scaling mistakes

16:00 – Why most agencies grow like a jigsaw puzzle

18:00 – “Inbound is broken” – what’s working now

21:00 – Strategic partnerships & the Crossbeam approach

23:30 – AI hype vs. actual implementation: where to invest

26:00 – Building your second layer of leadership

30:00 – Letting go of the vine – how to replace yourself

34:00 – What tools and platforms Eric would bet on today

37:00 – If he had to start over, here’s what he’d do

39:00 – The sales team you should’ve hired

42:00 – Where to find Eric online (and why he loves war stories)

🔑 What You’ll Learn in This Episode

• How Eric scaled Blue Leads into a top 5 global HubSpot partner.
• Why inbound is dying—and what’s replacing it
• The leadership move that separates scaling from stalling
• The #1 mistake agency owners make when hiring their first salesperson.
• What happened when their traffic dropped from 300K to 10K/month.
• How partnerships and AI agents are generating leads faster than cold outreach.
• The secret to staying relevant when your clients.
• Why agency growth looks like a jigsaw, not a hockey stick

Whether you’re facing slow proposals, scope creep, or undercharging, this conversation gives you practical steps to turn proposals into a growth engine for your agency.

🔑 What You’ll Learn in This Episode

• How to avoid the two biggest proposal mistakes: being too vague or too detailed.
• A simple framework for including upsells and add-ons without overwhelming prospects.
• Why proposals should be viewed as sales tools, not just paperwork.
• How to use clarity and transparency to build trust with brand decision-makers.
• The proposal strategies agencies can use right now to finish Q4 stronger.

This framing ties the conversation directly to timely biz dev priorities (Q4 closing, pipeline health), makes Joe’s expertise clear, and positions the episode as a tactical resource for agencies.

Links & Resources:

• Smart Pricing Table

This is from Dan’s conversation with Stephen Woessner on the Sell With Authority podcast.

what you’ll learn:

• Why most agencies waste energy chasing the tiny slice of prospects “ready to buy now” — and what to do instead.
• How to build trust with brands early, before they’re even in buying mode.
• Why cold outreach often fails in today’s noisy market, and how to shift your approach.
• The real scarce resource in business development
• How to open doors with brands in a way that feels natural, not forced.

Links & Resources:

• Sell With Authority Podcast

We get into the systems, sales strategies, and creative positioning that helped him go from “no name, no business plan” to building a client list most agencies dream about.

⏱ Timestamps

00:00 – From hobbyist to first client in four days

02:35 – Why “just starting” beats overplanning every time

04:04 – Selling the business case for podcasts

05:12 – The hire that changed everything

07:29 – Building scalable systems with “the 8 P’s”

09:49 – Why this sales hire actually worked

11:46 – Outreach, targeting, and big-brand ABM

15:47 – How the playbook changed as the market matured

17:56 – Solving business challenges, not selling “a podcast”

22:59 – JAR’s client system: job, audience, results

24:49 – Knowing when to say no (and sticking to it)

28:45 – Finding and training podcast hosts

32:49 – The current sales process (and why Roger still cold outreaches)

35:23 – Inbound, RFPs, and fixing broken shows

39:21 – Pitching ideas based on brand news

42:03 – Balancing prospecting with live opportunities

45:04 – Making sales a leadership team effort

46:47 – What’s next for JAR

• Key Takeaways
  • Waiting for the “perfect” start? That mindset kills momentum.
  • Sometimes the priciest hire unlocks the biggest profit.
  • Systems don’t have to be boring—they can fuel momentum.
  • Selling the why gets easier when your market is educated.
  • Saying no to the wrong projects creates space for the right ones.
  • Outreach that’s brand-specific beats any templated campaign.

Links & Resources:

• Relationship Sales at Scale™
• Website: jarpodcasts

Most agencies can sell for their clients all day, but when it comes to their growth, things can get messy.

I’ve spent the better part of a decade helping agencies stop relying on “hope and referrals” and start building sales systems that work.

⏱ Timestamps

00:00 – The “spare-time sales” trap

00:29 – Why this matters for client-facing pros

01:19 – My path into agency sales

02:20 – The scaling pain you don’t see coming

04:41 – When referrals run dry

06:10 – Inbound vs outbound today

07:04 – The trust-first approach

09:23 – Making referrals predictable

11:48 – Why cold outreach is harder now

14:13 – Accountability in sales

16:32 – Quick wins with clarity and focus

18:53 – Opportunities hiding in plain sight

20:10 – Where to find me + my book

✨ Key Points

• Why loading sales onto busy account managers fails.
• How to turn your network into a steady pipeline.
• The simple way to make introductions effortless.
• Why agencies should own sales instead of outsourcing it.
• How clarity on your ideal client changes everything.

🔗 Book a strategy call with Dan: Relationship Sales at Scale™

Checked the podcast on @dotandcompany

 Timestamps

00:00 – Intro & Kristen’s background

01:03 – From Broadway to freelance writing

03:03 – Business triples during COVID

04:48 – Treating execs like peers, not titles

06:22 – Sales copy and horizontal vs vertical relationships

07:39 – Why so much outreach reads as either bragging or begging

08:09 – Creating content that matches your ICP’s level

09:47 – Executives can smell uncertainty

11:49 – Emotions in B2B aren’t optional

14:17 – Leaving a 60% revenue partnership

16:24 – Selling to enterprise life sciences

17:07 – Building trust through intros and relationships

19:33 – Owning both sides: product and sales

21:56 – The writing on the wall after 10KSB

24:45 – Kristen’s Colby profile and systems for sales
25:50 – Why process builds confidence in sales

28:07 – Trust recession and the power of a real convo

31:43 – Why life sciences felt like home

35:25 – Balancing delivery with marketing

38:18 – Doubling down on strengths with Substack
40:00 – What Kristen’s excited about next

🔑 Some Key Takeaways

Kristen Sweeney walked away from a partner driving 60% of her revenue (on purpose), “Executives can smell fear” — and Kristen shares what actually earns their respect

Links & Resources:

Website: everylittleword.co

Relationship Sales at Scale™

We talk about the trap of project-based work, how to structure your agency around recurring revenue, and why most agencies screw up their first few sales hires.

🕒 Timestamps & Topics

• 00:00 — How Stewart got his start and why he doubled down on healthcare
• 03:15 — Direct mail, seminars, and the early version of inbound
• 06:40 — NLP and the psychology behind language that converts
• 11:20 — What drove their early growth (hint: it wasn’t salespeople)
• 13:40 — Why project work is a trap and how to transition to retainers
• 16:00 — Right-sized clients vs. resource-sucking whales
• 18:20 — Inbound vs. outbound: nets, spears, and the bullseye metaphor
• 21:20 — Stewart’s playbook if he were starting from scratch today
• 25:00 — Authority assets: reports, seminars, and content that build trust
• 29:10 — The daisy metaphor and avoiding entrepreneurial distraction
• 31:45 — What most agencies get wrong with their first sales hire
• 37:10 — Traits of a great agency salesperson (and why most don’t have them)
• 40:00 — When to stop being your own best salesperson
• 44:15 — Strategic partnerships and the next wave of AI opportunity
• 47:45 — Final thoughts on staying relevant when the cheese moves

A few things we covered.

• Most agency salespeople fail, not because they’re bad, but because there’s no clear positioning to sell.

Links & Resources:

• 🔗 Links & Resources
• Healthcare Success — Stewart’s agency
• Relationship Sales at Scale™

This is for the agency owner who's sick of feast-or-famine cycles and is ready to take control of their pipeline without chasing hacks or magical software.

⏱️ Timestamps

00:00 – The Rainforest vs. The Lion Hunt: A better metaphor for agency growth

02:00 – Introduction: Why solo episodes are the hardest, but the most needed

03:15 – The 4 Agency Growth Stages: Glorified Freelancer → Enterprise

06:00 – Specialization: Why it's now table stakes, not a nice-to-have

08:30 – TAM Thinking: Apply tech startup logic to your agency niche

10:00 – Why perspective is becoming table stakes

13:20 – You don't need to "go inward" for 6 months — talk to the market now

15:30 – Mindset: The difference between Cobbler’s Children and Enterprise thinking

20:00 – Why only 3% of your market is in-market right now.

24:00 – All marketing is interruption marketing — so do it ethically

26:00 – Why you probably don’t actually know your close rate (and how to fix that)

27:45 – Getting out of the sales seat: What really needs to be true before you hire a salesperson

30:30 – Your first two strategy projects: Thought leadership & net-new relationships

33:20 – The “balance beam” metaphor for doing outreach

35:00 – Using data + context to build non-spammy outbound lists

37:00 – What our best-performing campaigns look like

39:00 – Where real lead gen lives: Manual outreach to old prospects

42:00 – My exact reconnect email — word for word

44:00 – Wrapping up: Build something buyers want, but also build for your peace of mind

Key Points

• The Four Stages of Agency Growth
• → Glorified Freelancer → Cobbler’s Children → Transitional Agency → Enterprise
• Specialization is Now Table Stakes
• → It’s harder to win without it. But specialization doesn’t always mean verticalization.
• Perspective is the New Differentiator
• → Agencies that win aren’t just executing.
• 3% Rule of Market Timing
• → Only 3% of your market is actively buying.
• Manual Outreach is Still King
• → My highest ROI activity: emailing past prospects and lapsed clients.
• Getting Out of the Sales Seat Takes More Than Hiring a Salesperson
• → You need the wave. That means systems, clarity, and enough leads to support a new closer.

Links & Resources:

💼 Book a call with me

• Digital Agency Growth Podcast

In this episode, we dive into what agency owners at the $1–5M mark can actually do to punch past the common growth ceilings.

The most important shift?

He stopped selling to job titles—and started selling to buyers with something to prove.

⏱ Timestamps

00:00 – Intro: Why agencies need a rethink

00:36 – Mark’s background: Accenture, startups, bill.com, Nexient

02:23 – Studying AI in the 90s: symbolic vs neural nets

04:30 – Stepping into Nexient at $39M—and losing $5M first

06:59 – Early differentiation struggles and customer perception

08:29 – Building product-style squads inside a services business

10:38 – The big leap: shifting from selling people to selling outcomes

11:08 – Simplifying the pitch: “life’s too short for crappy software”

13:12 – Saying no to revenue: the scary path to focus

14:14 – Selling without data: enterprise outbound as testing lab

16:26 – Creating their own conference as a positioning feedback loop

19:34 – Cross-industry client base: healthcare to gas utilities to tech

20:25 – Specializing by service vs vertical in today’s world

24:52 – Growth “walls”: from founder-led to decentralized structure

29:21 – Change agents: how to spot internal buyers who take risks

32:40 – The next wall at 150M and why he chose to exit

36:56 – Getting ghosted on a term sheet, then driving a bidding war

40:17 – The Project Works origin story: from spreadsheet to SaaS

42:28 – Why every services firm needs better resourcing visibility

47:29 – What’s next: proposal automation, AI, and growth tooling

48:49 – Where to find Mark and Project Works

Key Points

• Why scaling past the eight figures in a services firm requires breaking the founder bottleneck
• Why “life’s too short for crappy software” became a high-converting mission
• The opportunity of building or early adopters—not the mainstream
• How to identify and win over internal change agents in large enterprises
• How Project Works helps agencies resource smarter and prevent margin leaks
• Using conferences as real-time feedback loops for positioning
• Why now is the time to apply AI to services growth ops—especially proposals

Links & Resources:

• 🔗 Links & Resources

🔗 Book a strategy call with Dan: https://salesschema.com/work-with-us/

🎙 More episodes of the Digital Agency Growth Podcast: salesschema.com/podcast

• Project Works – https://www.projectworks.com
• Connect with Mark on LinkedIn – Mark Orttung

⏱️ Timestamps

• 00:00 – Welcome back Karl Sakas + Intro to Calm the Chaos
• 01:09 – Why leadership is the key to scaling a lifestyle agency
• 02:22 – Karl’s writing process
• 05:30 – Blog posts vs. books: Why books matter for positioning
• 07:45 – AI’s role in writing and idea development
• 08:31 – Art collecting vs. agency leadership: Taste vs. discernment
• 13:32 – The tipping point: You can’t be the answer person forever
• 16:13 – The bottleneck around delegation and how to fix it
• 21:50 – What causes chaos in an agency?
• 24:50 – Strong pipeline = better client filtering
• 29:27 – How to delegate growth and not abdicate responsibility
• 34:48 – Should you build demand gen internally or hire it out?
• 37:21 – The M&A market and how to think about valuation and exit
• 41:51 – The real drivers behind agency exits: Age, tuition, and burnout

🔗 Book a strategy call with Dan: https://salesschema.com/work-with-us/

🎙 More episodes of the Digital Agency Growth Podcast: salesschema.com/podcast

🎁 Get a free chapter of Karl’s book: bit.ly/karl-dag

⏱️ Timestamps

[00:00] – Todd’s background and startup school origins

[01:20] – How a Substack detour into GLP-1 changed everything

[03:33] – What GLP-1 drugs do, how they work, and why they matter

[05:28] – The "air conditioner moment" analogy and downstream societal effects

[07:14] – Grocery, alcohol, and aviation: second-order impacts

[10:04] – What fills the lifestyle gap?

[11:46] – The hidden threat to advertising: fewer impulses, fewer clicks

[13:52] – Are your most impulsive ad converters vanishing?

[15:15] – Even B2B isn’t safe from this shift

[17:22] – Safety data, supply constraints, and the future scale of adoption

[19:25] – Could insurance companies lead the charge on GLP-1 coverage?

[21:15] – Could 50% of ad strategies go obsolete?

[22:23] – Where to follow Todd and dig deeper

📢 Key Topics:

• GLP-1’s societal and psychological impact
• Why this isn’t just about weight loss—it’s about impulse control
• Second- and third-order effects on brands, industries, and culture
• How marketing strategies may need to evolve in a post-GLP-1 world

Links & Resources:

Visit: https://salesschema.com/work-with-us/

🔗 Learn more about Todd→ https://wildfirelabs.io/

Discover why cold outreach is no longer enough, how authentic LinkedIn content can drive long-term trust and authority, and how busy executives can make content creation part of their routine. Jared also shares hands-on tactics for leveraging video and interviews, working smarter with teams, and setting realistic goals for lead generation through personal brands.

Timestamps

00:00 – Intro & welcoming Jared 
01:51 – Jared’s background & launching Outworks 
06:43 – Why traditional outbound no longer works 
12:46 – How content & algorithms have changed on LinkedIn 
18:51 – The importance of knowing your Total Addressable Market 
23:35 – Making content creation a lifestyle 
29:49 – What ROI looks like on LinkedIn 
33:50 – Getting clients comfortable on video 
35:21 – Using client interviews for content 
37:21 – Jared’s partner program and new service launchTags

Links & Resources:

Visit: https://salesschema.com

🔗 Learn more about Jared→ https://www.outworks.io/

⏱️ Time-Stamped Breakdown

00:00 – Why outbound often fails for boutique agencies
02:20 – Why small wins in copy drive big results
04:39 – The unique control and feedback loop outbound provides
06:57 – Why most agency outbound tactics are broken from the jump
09:21 – Enter the "trust recession" and how to sell like a human, not a marketer
11:39 – How to define ideal client profiles (ICPs) the right way
14:01 – The six key ingredients of effective outbound copy

14:10 – Tribe-based kinship

15:12 – Deep understanding and insider language

16:21 – Show, don’t tell authority cues

18:38 – Timeliness and aligning with the calendar

21:01 – Pattern interrupts that keep it horizontal, not hokey

22:32 – De-risking the ask and giving people an easy yes
23:20 – How to scale relevance without fake personalization
25:43 – Outbound channels: why simpler may be smarter
28:04 – Systems thinking: time blocking, trust, and the ops question
30:21 – The real definition of “sales work” (hint: it’s not just calls)
32:43 – Supporting your new business person (or yourself) to succeed

🔑 Key Takeaways

• Stop chasing MQLs, start building trust. Reframe outbound as a relationship-building engine.
• Nail your ICPs. Think in cocktail-party terms: how would your ideal client introduce themselves?
• Leverage the six trust-building ingredients in every campaign for relevance, resonance, and results.
• Outbound isn’t about spray and pray—it's about proactive control. Test fast, learn faster, and grow smarter.
• Build for sustainability. Your system should run even when you’re swamped with client work.

📌 Mentioned Resources

• saleschema.com – Request a consultation and learn how to implement this system 

Chris shares how he went from infantry officer to agency CEO and ultimately to coach, helping firms move away from scattered messaging and toward a productized, high-trust, high-clarity model. You’ll learn how to evaluate your market positioning, why most agencies document broken systems too early, and how to create offers that cut through the noise.

If you're a boutique agency looking to reduce churn, build repeatable value, and earn more without more complexity—this one's for you.

🔑 Topics covered:

• The one-problem, one-solution model
• The PRISM framework for evaluating a market
• Why clarity is a sales multiplier
• The Snap Offer system (and why it outperforms lead magnets)
• Why the real bottleneck is attention—not operations

Links & Resources:

• 🔗 Learn more about Chris → https://dynamicagencyos.com/
• Visit: https://salesschema.com

In this episode of The Digital Agency Growth Podcast, Dan Englander sits down with Erik J. Olson, CEO of Proxa and the force behind three specialized agencies under one umbrella. Erik walks us through his unconventional journey from civil engineering to coding in bookstores to building a portfolio of agencies with one goal: a $100M private equity exit.

You’ll learn:

• Why Erik spun off agencies instead of pivoting one
• How to identify “hall of fame” clients without over-complicating the data
• What it really takes to hire (and keep) a performing salesperson
• How AI is standardizing  execution and what agency leaders should focus on instead
• Why niching isn’t risky, avoiding it is

We also dig into Erik’s sales frameworks, lessons from failed hires, and what it means to evolve from entrepreneur to operator.

Learn more about The Digitial Agency Growth Podcast at https://www.salesschema.com/podcast/ and our Video training at http://salesschema.com/takecharge 

CONNECT WITH ERIK J. OLSON:

LinkedIn

Array Digital

Rival Digital

Crush Digital

CONNECT WITH DAN ENGLANDER:

LinkedIn

Sales Schema

In this conversation, Dan Englander talks with Audrey consultant, community builder, and founder of Agency Together about how agencies can get off the feast-or-famine sales rollercoaster by building strategic partnerships, clarifying their niche, and focusing on relationships that compound over time.

Topics covered:

• Why “referral-ready” relationships are built on consistency, not chance
• The ROI of niching for insight, credibility, and collaboration
• How small agencies can thrive without growing headcount
• What’s extending sales cycles and how trust shortens them
• “Growth projects” that drive visibility and long-term differentiation
• Why clarity beats diversification, and how to evaluate your niche strategy with SWOT + PESTLE

Audrey also shares her “Trust Equity Scorecard,” a free tool that helps agency leaders assess how well-positioned they are to grow through relationships.

🔗 Get the scorecard: agencytogether.com/scorecard

🎧 Subscribe to The Digital Agency Growth Podcast for more conversations like this, where we cut through gimmicks and focus on what actually drives growth in complex-service businesses.

Learn more about The Digitial Agency Growth Podcast at https://www.salesschema.com/podcast/ and our Video training at http://salesschema.com/takecharge 

CONNECT WITH AUDREY KWAN:

LinkedIn

Agency Together

Audrey Joy Kwan

CONNECT WITH DAN ENGLANDER:

LinkedIn

Sales Schema

Watch our latest video training, How to Take Charge of Your Agency’s Future Revenue. During this training, you’ll learn how we get qualified appointments every week using tasteful and highly targeted email outreach.

They cover:

• Why sub-10-person agencies are disappearing
• The true impact (and limits) of AI in agency operations
• What’s driving the contractor surge—and what it means for margins
• Why specialization isn’t optional anymore (and how to actually do it right)
• How GLP-1 drugs like Ozempic could disrupt agency-adjacent markets
• What top-performing agencies are doing differently

If you're an agency founder navigating a changing market, this episode is your strategic cheat sheet.

Thank you for listening! If you enjoyed this episode, please take a moment to follow, rate and review the podcast and tell me your key takeaways!

Learn more about The Digitial Agency Growth Podcast at https://www.salesschema.com/podcast/ and our Video training at http://salesschema.com/takecharge 

CONNECT WITH NICK PETROSKI:

LinkedIn

Promethean Research

Download Nick’s latest research report here: prometheanresearch.com

CONNECT WITH DAN ENGLANDER:

LinkedIn

Sales Schema

In this solo episode, Dan Englander breaks down the key takeaways from his recent workshop: Implementing a Business Development System That Stands Up to Uncertainty.

You’ll learn:

• Why reactive sales keeps you stuck in volatility
• How to shift to a proactive system that builds momentum
• The 3 mindset shifts every agency needs for consistent growth
• A practical KPI framework to build sales habits (not just reports)
• How to define your ICPs without overcomplicating things
• A smarter way to run referral campaigns—no awkward asks

This episode is packed with timeless strategies, no fluff—just actionable systems for growing your agency in unpredictable times.

Want the complete Workshop?  
including tools and slides.  Go here

The agency world has seen plenty of change in recent years. But with that change comes opportunity — for evolution, adaptation, and leadership. In this episode, Drew McLellan joins us to talk about the current state of the agency landscape in 2024, the importance of thought leadership, and how to build real trust with clients long before the sale.

Watch our latest video training, How to Take Charge of Your Agency’s Future Revenue. During this training, you’ll learn how we get qualified appointments every week using tasteful and highly targeted email outreach.

In this episode, Dan and Drew discuss:

• Why trust starts long before the sales conversation
• What it really takes to grow your agency sustainably
• How to position your agency as a true thought leader
• Where AI adds value (and where it doesn’t)

Drew McLellan has worked in advertising for over 30 years. He runs McLellan Marketing Group and Agency Management Institute (AMI), where he helps thousands of small and mid-sized agencies grow smarter and stronger every year.

Whether you missed this episode the first time or just need a refresher, we’re excited to bring it back. If you enjoy it, don’t forget to follow, rate, and review the podcast  and share your biggest takeaway with us. 

Learn more about The Digitial Agency Growth Podcast at https://www.salesschema.com/podcast/ and our Video training at http://salesschema.com/takecharge 

CONNECT WITH DREW MCLELLAN:

Agency Management Institute

LinkedIn

X (formerly Twitter)

Website

CONNECT WITH DAN ENGLANDER:

LinkedIn

Sales Schema

Jon Tsourakis, Co-Founder of Oyova, reveals how embracing discomfort, staying authentic, and focusing on fundamentals can transform your agency’s performance even in the hardest times. 

Watch our latest video training, How to Take Charge of Your Agency’s Future Revenue. During this training, you’ll learn how we get qualified appointments every week using tasteful and highly targeted email outreach.

In this episode of The Digital Agency Growth Podcast, Jon Tsourakis breaks down how agencies can stay competitive by embracing adaptability, simplifying operations, and focusing on what truly drives growth in uncertain times. He shares actionable insights on refining your service offering, building stronger client relationships, and creating a resilient agency model that thrives despite market challenges.

Tune in to learn:

• Why resisting comfort is key to success
• How to adapt your biz dev strategy when outbound stops working
• The balance between automation and human connection
• Lessons from rejection and how to stay in "performance mode"

Whether you're battling slow sales or looking to future-proof your agency, this conversation is packed with actionable insights.

CONNECT WITH JON TSOURAKIS

LinkedIn

OYOVA

CONNECT WITH DAN ENGLANDER:

LinkedIn

Sales Schema

In this episode, David Brecount — CEO and co-founder of US Digital Partners — returns to share how his agency survived and thrived over 23 years by doing the opposite of what most agencies chase: consistency over chaos, long-term strategy over shiny tactics, and relationships over quick wins.

Watch our latest video training, How to Take Charge of Your Agency’s Future Revenue. During this training, you’ll learn how we get qualified appointments every week using tasteful and highly targeted email outreach.

We talk about how he shifted from project-based work to recurring revenue, what clients actually want in today’s skeptical market, and how his team is doubling down on being human in a noisy, AI-dominated landscape.

Whether you're an agency founder or a sales leader selling complex services, this is a blueprint for sustainable growth.

 🔍 What we cover in this episode:
– Why they transitioned from projects to retainers
– How to sell strategy (not just deliverables)
– Navigating economic uncertainty without panicking
– The “physical therapy” mindset behind real marketing
– Why pricing transparency ≠ trust
– AI hype vs. human creativity
– And… why they ditched open office culture for private spaces 

Thank you for listening! If you enjoyed this episode, please take a moment to follow, rate and review the podcast and tell me your key takeaways!

CONNECT WITH DAVID BRECOUNT

LinkedIn

US DIGITAL PARTNERS

CONNECT WITH DAN ENGLANDER:

LinkedIn

Sales Schema

Watch our latest video training, How to Take Charge of Your Agency’s Future Revenue. During this training, you’ll learn how we get qualified appointments every week using tasteful and highly targeted email outreach.

Dan, founder of Sales Schema and host of this show, dives into the challenges agencies face in today’s low-trust, high-noise landscape. He and Brandi explore why traditional outbound strategies are breaking down, how to rethink your sales approach to win trust faster, and how to build systems that scale without losing the human touch.

This conversation is packed with real examples, strategic frameworks, and practical advice to help agency leaders sell complex services more effectively in 2025 and beyond.

In This Episode, You’ll Learn:

• Why response rates are dropping—and how to adapt your strategy
• How to identify “relationship triggers” and use them to book more meetings
• The downside of over-automation and what to do instead
• How agencies can de-risk outreach in low-trust environments
• The key roles your team needs to scale personalized outreach

Thank you for listening! If you enjoyed this episode, please take a moment to follow, rate and review the podcast and tell me your key takeaways!

Learn more about The Digitial Agency Growth Podcast at https://www.salesschema.com/podcast/ and our Video training at http://salesschema.com/takecharge 

CONNECT WITH BRANDI STARR:

LinkedIn

Tegrita

Revenue Rehab 

CONNECT WITH DAN ENGLANDER:

LinkedIn

Sales Schema

Watch our latest video training, How to Take Charge of Your Agency’s Future Revenue. During this training, you’ll learn how we get qualified appointments every week using tasteful and highly targeted email outreach.

Drawing from over a decade of experience working with major brands like McDonald’s, P&G, and Diageo, Matt shares how agency leaders can build deeper relationships, navigate client-side politics, and turn trust into long-term revenue. You’ll also learn why in-housing doesn't have to mean losing the account, how to build a win-back campaign, and what separates the agencies that stay top-of-mind from the ones that don’t.

This week’s episode is all about building client trust, navigating internal change, and unlocking untapped growth within your current book of business. 

In this episode, Dan and Matt discuss the following:

• Why agencies over-prioritize new business and overlook their biggest asset
• The importance of relationship mapping inside complex client organizations
• What to do when your point of contact leaves the company
• When churn is actually a good thing
• How to re-engage lapsed clients with a win-back strategy
• Why origin stories and strategic perspective matter in pitches
• How to have better conversations around in-housing and agency value

Thank you for listening! If you enjoyed this episode, please take a moment to follow, rate and review the podcast and tell me your key takeaways!

Learn more about The Digitial Agency Growth Podcast at https://www.salesschema.com/podcast/ and our Video training at http://salesschema.com/takecharge 

CONNECT WITH MATT PENSINGER:

LinkedIn

Jack Morton Worldwide

CONNECT WITH DAN ENGLANDER:

LinkedIn

Sales Schema

Watch our latest video training, How to Take Charge of Your Agency’s Future Revenue. During this training, you’ll learn how we get qualified appointments every week using tasteful and highly targeted email outreach.

In this episode of The Digital Agency Growth Podcast, Brandon Leibowitz emphasizes the importance of combining long-term strategy with adaptability. He shares actionable steps for balancing business development and fulfillment, building effective systems, and delegating with confidence. 

Brandon Leibowitz is the founder of SEO Optimizers, a digital marketing agency helping small and medium-sized businesses increase their online visibility and drive measurable results. With nearly two decades of experience, Brandon has been featured in Entrepreneur, Yahoo, and other top publications, and now helps agency owners stay competitive in an ever-evolving market.

In this episode, Dan and Brandon discuss:

• How AI is changing SEO and what agencies need to know
• Why schema remains critical for visibility in AI-powered search
• The balance between using AI and human creativity in content creation
• Strategies for business development and branding
• How to build SOPs, delegate effectively, and scale sustainably

Thank you for listening! If you enjoyed this episode, please take a moment to follow, rate and review the podcast and tell me your key takeaways!

Learn more about The Digitial Agency Growth Podcast at https://www.salesschema.com/podcast/ and our Video training at http://salesschema.com/takecharge 

CONNECT WITH BRANDON LEIBOWITZ

SEO Optimizers

LinkedIn

Youtube

CONNECT WITH DAN ENGLANDER:

LinkedIn

Sales Schema

Watch our latest video training, How to Take Charge of Your Agency’s Future Revenue. During this training, you’ll learn how we get qualified appointments every week using tasteful and highly targeted email outreach.

In this episode of The Digital Agency Growth Podcast, Dan shares the importance of having a clear vision and understanding long-term goals in order to make informed decisions, seek the right partnerships, and stay ahead of shifting trends.

In this episode, Dan and Nikki discuss:

• The evolution from scaling-focused goals to exit-focused planning.
• How disillusionment in the market has created a trust recession.
• Why businesses need to leverage scarcity and authentic connections.
• The role of secret languages and industry terminology in sales.
• How to future-proof your sales process and stand out.

Thank you for listening! If you enjoyed this episode, please take a moment to follow, rate, and review the podcast. Share your key takeaways with us!

Connect with Nikki Rausch:

LinkedIn

Sales Maven 

Sales Maven Podcast

Connect with Dan Englander:

LinkedIn

Sales Schema

With over 20 years of experience working with B2B companies, Brandi shares how agencies can better align sales and marketing, optimize their client journey, and finally stop losing prospects in the middle of the funnel.

Watch our latest video training, How to Take Charge of Your Agency’s Future Revenue. During this training, you’ll learn how we get qualified appointments every week using tasteful and highly targeted email outreach.

In this episode of The Digital Agency Growth Podcast, Brandi Starr shares insights on the role of middle-of-funnel marketing, how to define “sales-ready” leads, and why so many agencies struggle to move prospects from interest to action. She also explains what CMOs are really looking for when working with agency partners. 

Brandi is the COO at Tegrita, a consultancy that helps companies unlock the power of email marketing, and she’s been named one of the Top 50 Women in MarTech. She also hosts the Revenue Rehab podcast, where she explores the tough conversations marketing leaders need to have.

In This Episode, Dan and Brandi Discuss:

• The middle-of-funnel mistake that’s costing agencies clients — and how to fix it
• Why agencies struggle to move leads from interest to sale — and how to change that
• What CMOs and marketing leaders really want from agencies today
• How to align sales and marketing around a true "sales-ready" definition
• Why focusing only on lead generation isn’t enough — and how to build trust that closes deals

Thank you for listening! If you enjoyed this episode, please take a moment to follow, rate, and review the podcast — and let me know your key takeaways!

CONNECT WITH BRANDI STARR:

LinkedIn

Tegrita

Revenue Rehab 

CONNECT WITH DAN ENGLANDER:

LinkedIn

Sales Schema

Dan combines some of his most popular LinkedIn insights into a single episode, giving you a frank, behind-the-scenes look at what’s working and what’s not for agency business development in 2025.

Watch our latest video training, How to Take Charge of Your Agency’s Future Revenue. During this training, you’ll learn how we get qualified appointments every week using tasteful and highly targeted email outreach.

In this episode of The Digital Agency Growth Podcast, Dan covers:

• Why agency owners drift away from successful strategies — and how to course correct
• The dangers of relying too heavily on referrals and reactive sales
• Why specialization isn’t static — and how niches keep evolving
• How to break through “head trash” and false assumptions that block new business
• The truth about outbound KPIs and why just one conversation per day can transform your agency
• The biggest mistake agencies make with intent data — and how to fix it
• What agencies can learn from rock bands, jiu-jitsu, and even elite marathon runners

Thank you for listening! If you enjoyed this episode, please take a moment to follow, rate and review the podcast and tell me your key takeaways!

Learn more about The Digitial Agency Growth Podcast at https://www.salesschema.com/podcast/ and our Video training at http://salesschema.com/takecharge 

CONNECT WITH DAN ENGLANDER:

LinkedIn

Sales Schema 

Watch our latest video training, How to Take Charge of Your Agency’s Future Revenue. During this training, you’ll learn how we get qualified appointments every week using tasteful and highly targeted email outreach.

In this episode of The Digital Agency Growth Podcast, Ryan Watson shares insights into financial trends, revenue challenges, and the biggest profitability mistakes agencies are making today. He also highlights the key strategies that separate thriving agencies from those struggling to stay afloat.

Ryan is the Partner at Upsourced Accounting, a firm specializing in outsourced finance and CFO advisory for agencies. With years of experience working with creative and digital businesses, he helps agencies optimize their financial strategies to achieve scalable growth.

In This Episode, Dan and Ryan Discuss:

• The balance between standardizing financial processes and preserving agency flexibility
• The biggest financial mistakes agencies make (and how to fix them)
• How longer sales cycles and economic uncertainty are impacting agency growth
• The importance of repeatable revenue streams for long-term financial stability
• How founders should approach financial decision-making and profitability optimization

Thank you for listening! If you enjoyed this episode, please take a moment to follow, rate and review the podcast and tell me your key takeaways!

Learn more about The Digitial Agency Growth Podcast at https://www.salesschema.com/podcast/ and our Video training at http://salesschema.com/takecharge 

CONNECT WITH RYAN WATSON:

LinkedIn

Upsourced 

Upsourced Youtube

CONNECT WITH DAN ENGLANDER:

LinkedIn

Sales Schema

Stop relying on unpredictable referrals and take control of your agency's future growth. Go to salesschema.com/takecharge to access the free training now. 

Nikki breaks down the psychology behind successful sales interactions, how small communication shifts can create a big impact, and why sales isn’t something you do to people—it’s something you do with them. She also walks us through her Selling Staircase framework, a step-by-step process for guiding prospects toward a confident “yes” without resorting to high-pressure tactics.

This week, episode 250 of The Digital Agency Growth Podcast is about mastering authentic sales, building trust with NLP techniques, and selling with confidence in a competitive market! 

Watch our latest video training, How to Take Charge of Your Agency’s Future Revenue. During this training, you’ll learn how we get qualified appointments every week using tasteful and highly targeted email outreach.

In this episode of The Digital Agency Growth Podcast, Nikki Rausch shares why your word choice, tone, and body language matter more than you think—and how to adjust them to create stronger client relationships. Plus, she provides actionable strategies to help you recognize buying signals, lead productive sales conversations, and sell in a way that feels natural and comfortable.

Nikki Rausch is the founder of Sales Maven and the host of the Sales Maven Podcast. With over 25 years of selling experience and extensive training in NLP, she has helped countless business owners transform the way they approach sales. She’s also the author of three books and a sought-after speaker in the sales and marketing space.

In this episode, Dan and Nikki discuss the following:

• How small shifts in communication can dramatically impact sales outcomes.
• The Selling Staircase framework and how to guide prospects through the buying process.
• Why word choice, body language, and tone matter in sales conversations.
• How to recognize and act on buying signals to close deals more effectively.

Thank you for listening! If you enjoyed this episode, please take a moment to follow, rate and review the podcast and tell me your key takeaways!

Learn more about The Digitial Agency Growth Podcast at https://www.salesschema.com/podcast/ and our Video training at http://salesschema.com/takecharge 

CONNECT WITH NIKKI RAUSCH

LinkedIn

Sales Maven

Sales Maven Podcast

CONNECT WITH DAN ENGLANDER:

LinkedIn

Sales Schema

Stop relying on unpredictable referrals and take control of your agency's future growth. Go to salesschema.com/takecharge to access the free training now. 

Stop relying on unpredictable referrals and take control of your agency's future growth. Go to salesschema.com/takecharge to access the free training now. 

As an agency owner, finding the right balance between structure and creativity can be a challenge. Spencer Gallagher, founder of Cactus and co-author of Agencynomics, joins us this week to share his insights on scaling agencies, building long-term value, and navigating the ever-changing industry landscape. Spencer dives into the importance of treating your agency as an asset, leveraging data and AI, and understanding how top agencies position themselves for acquisition.

This week, episode 249 of The Digital Agency Growth Podcast is about scaling smarter, increasing agency value, and staying ahead in the evolving digital landscape!

Watch our latest video training, How to Take Charge of Your Agency’s Future Revenue. During this training, you’ll learn how we get qualified appointments every week using tasteful and highly targeted email outreach.

In this episode, Spencer Gallagher shares the key factors that separate agencies that successfully exit from those that don’t—and how to build a business that buyers actually want. He also breaks down the biggest shifts happening in the agency world and how owners can adapt to thrive.

Spencer Gallagher is the founder of Cactus, a consulting firm specializing in helping agencies scale and prepare for acquisition. He built and sold his own agency, Blue Halo, and now advises agency owners on growth, operations, and maximizing business value.

In this episode, Dan and Spencer discuss:

• The #1 mistake agency owners make when scaling—and how to avoid it.
• Why data and AI-driven agencies are in high demand.
• How to structure your agency for long-term growth and a successful exit.
• The future of agency business models and why adaptability is key.

Thank you for listening! If you enjoyed this episode, please take a moment to follow, rate and review the podcast and tell me your key takeaways!

Learn more about The Digitial Agency Growth Podcast at https://www.salesschema.com/podcast/ and our Video training at http://salesschema.com/takecharge 

CONNECT WITH SPENCER GALLAGHER:

LinkedIn

Cactus 

Agencynomics

CONNECT WITH DAN ENGLANDER:

LinkedIn

Sales Schema

Stop relying on unpredictable referrals and take control of your agency's future growth. Go to salesschema.com/takecharge to access the free training now. 

Joe covers how agencies can eliminate inefficiencies, standardize their pricing, and leverage upsells to maximize every opportunity. This week, episode 248 of The Digital Agency Growth Podcast is all about optimizing your proposal process and closing deals faster!

Watch our latest video training, How to Take Charge of Your Agency’s Future Revenue. During this training, you’ll learn how we get qualified appointments every week using tasteful and highly targeted email outreach.

In this episode of The Digital Agency Growth Podcast, Joe Ardeeser shares insights on how agencies can improve their proposal workflows, reduce wasted time, and increase conversions by creating structured, client-friendly proposals that sell.

Joe Ardeeser is a former agency owner with over 12 years of experience working with brands like Bluetooth, Scantron, and T-Mobile. Now, as the founder of Smart Pricing Table, he’s helping agencies revolutionize their sales process with interactive proposal software designed for efficiency and profitability.

In this episode, Dan and Joe discuss the following:

• The biggest mistakes agencies make with proposals—and how to fix them
• How to create a sales catalog to speed up and standardize your pricing
• The power of upsells and add-ons to increase deal size effortlessly
• Why proposal review meetings can significantly boost your close rate

Thank you for listening! If you enjoyed this episode, please take a moment to follow, rate, and review the podcast. Let us know your key takeaways!

Learn more about The Digitial Agency Growth Podcast at https://www.salesschema.com/podcast/ and our Video training at http://salesschema.com/takecharge 

CONNECT WITH JOE ARDEER:

LinkedIn

Smart Pricing Table website

Free Guide

CONNECT WITH DAN ENGLANDER:

LinkedIn

Sales Schema

Stop relying on unpredictable referrals and take control of your agency's future growth. Go to salesschema.com/takecharge to access the free training now. 

Stop relying on unpredictable referrals and take control of your agency's future growth. Go to salesschema.com/takecharge to access the free training now. 

Watch our latest video training, How to Take Charge of Your Agency’s Future Revenue. During this training, you’ll learn how we get qualified appointments every week using tasteful and highly targeted email outreach.

In this episode of The Digital Agency Growth Podcast, Greg dives into the importance of mapping out a clear plan before going “all in,” helping agencies avoid costly missteps. He also outlines practical steps you can take right now to identify quality leads, streamline decision-making, and ensure that your agency’s growth efforts are rooted in both data and instinct.

Greg comes from a world where one bold move can make—or break—a game. Having successfully transitioned his poker acumen to the agency space, Greg now guides other owners on how to balance strategic creativity with calculated risk. Whether you’re looking to improve your closing rate, enhance client relationships, or simply avoid “gambling” on untested tactics, this episode offers a masterclass in stepping up to the table with confidence.

In this episode, Dan and Greg discuss the following:

• Bringing a poker mindset to business and how risk tolerance can spark innovative strategies.
• The value of data-driven decisions—why going “all in” requires both gut instinct and solid facts.
• Developing a flexible yet focused approach to client outreach, ensuring every lead is high-value.
• Empowering teams with a winning perspective so everyone plays a part in driving agency success.

Thank you for listening! If you enjoyed this episode, please take a moment to follow, rate, and review the podcast—and be sure to share your key takeaways!

Learn more about The Digitial Agency Growth Podcast at https://www.salesschema.com/podcast/ and our Video training at http://salesschema.com/takecharge 

CONNECT WITH GREG BROOKS:

LinkedIn

SEARCHTIDES

CONNECT WITH DAN ENGLANDER:

LinkedIn

Sales Schema

Stop relying on unpredictable referrals and take control of your agency's future growth. Go to salesschema.com/takecharge to access the free training now. 

• How to overcome the limitations of referral-based growth.
• Building trust through personalized outreach and clear targeting.
• Creating a scalable sales system before hiring a dedicated salesperson.
• Strategies for transitioning owner-led sales to a team-driven approach.
• The importance of clarity and segmentation in outbound sales.

If you’re an agency owner looking to streamline your sales process and grow sustainably, this episode is packed with practical advice to help you build a foundation for success.

Thank you for listening! If you enjoyed this episode, please take a moment to follow, rate and review the podcast and tell me your key takeaways!

Learn more about The Digitial Agency Growth Podcast at https://www.salesschema.com/podcast/ and our Video training at http://salesschema.com/takecharge 

CONNECT WITH STEVE GUBERMAN:

LinkedIn

Outsight

YouTube

Agency Bytes podcast

CONNECT WITH DAN ENGLANDER:

LinkedIn

Sales Schema

Stop relying on unpredictable referrals and take control of your agency's future growth. Go to salesschema.com/takecharge to access the free training now. 

Watch our latest video training, How to Take Charge of Your Agency’s Future Revenue. In this training, you’ll learn how to secure qualified appointments consistently with highly targeted and tasteful email outreach.

In this episode, Stephen Woessner discusses the importance of treating your agency like your best client, creating cornerstone content, and fostering trust through effective team structures and metrics-driven strategies.

Stephen Woessner is the CEO of Predictive ROI, a consultancy focused on helping agencies build authority and generate consistent revenue through content-driven strategies. With a deep understanding of agency operations and the evolving market, Stephen provides actionable advice for scaling your business.

In this episode, Dan and Stephen cover:

• The benefits of building a dedicated internal team to handle your agency’s content.
• Why specialization is key to standing out in a crowded market.
• How AI is reshaping agency operations and client expectations.
• The journey from being a vendor to a trusted strategic partner.
• Practical steps to measure ROI and ensure your content efforts generate revenue.

Thank you for listening! If you enjoyed this episode, please take a moment to follow, rate, and review the podcast share your key takeaways with us!

Learn more about The Digitial Agency Growth Podcast at https://www.salesschema.com/podcast/ and our Video training at http://salesschema.com/takecharge 

CONNECT WITH STEPHEN  WOESSNER: 

LinkedIn

PREDICTIVE ROI

Sell with Authority Podcast

CONNECT WITH DAN ENGLANDER:

LinkedIn

Sales Schema

Stop relying on unpredictable referrals and take control of your agency's future growth. Go to salesschema.com/takecharge to access the free training now. 

Max shares his journey from bombing his Series 7 exam to building and eventually selling an award-winning agency. Along the way, he tackled the common struggles of agency owners: juggling too many services, inconsistent cash flow, and the fear of saying no to clients. By embracing specialization and focusing on high-impact services, Max was able to double his revenue and achieve sustainable growth.

If you’ve ever wondered how to simplify your business, find your niche, and scale on your own terms, this episode is packed with actionable insights to help you move forward.

Key Takeaways

• The Risks of Being a Jack-of-All-Trades: How offering too many services can dilute your value and make scaling nearly impossible.
• The Power of Niching Down: Why focusing on one or two high-impact services not only simplifies operations but also accelerates revenue growth.
• The Role of ROI in Decision-Making: Learn how Max used impact and profit margin to identify the most valuable services for his agency.
• Building Systems for Predictable Growth: How treating your agency like a business (not a glorified job) unlocks new opportunities.
• Staying Top of Mind with Newsletters: Why newsletters are a powerful tool for nurturing leads and building trust in a cost-effective way.

Thank you for listening! If you enjoyed this episode, please take a moment to follow, rate and review the podcast and tell me your key takeaways!

Learn more about The Digitial Agency Growth Podcast at https://www.salesschema.com/podcast/ and our Video training at http://salesschema.com/takecharge

CONNECT WITH MARKETING MAX

LinkedIn

Marketing Max

Marketing Max Podcast YT

CONNECT WITH DAN ENGLANDER:

LinkedIn

Sales Schema

Stop relying on unpredictable referrals and take control of your agency's future growth. Go to salesschema.com/takecharge to access the free training now. 

Watch our latest video training, How to Take Charge of Your Agency’s Future Revenue. During this training, you’ll learn how we get qualified appointments every week using tasteful and highly targeted email outreach.

In this episode of The Digital Agency Growth Podcast, Melissa Lohrer shares the importance of having a clear vision and financial goals to make informed decisions about client fit and actionable steps you can take right now to seek partnerships and opportunities for collaboration. 

Melissa Lohrer is the CEO & Founder of Waverly Ave. Consulting, an independent consulting business built for modern agencies, rethinking the traditional agency model and giving agency owners a runway for growth. After spending 13 years working inside agencies, Melissa decided to start her own business to redefine what success means in the creative world.

In this episode, Dan and Melissa discuss the following:

• The balance between standardizing processes in agencies and preserving creativity.
• Specialization and how it can lead to increased pricing and simplified operations.
• The importance of partnerships and collaboration in the agency space, rather than viewing competitors as threats.
• How founders should continue to drive the vision and be involved in the sales process, even with a dedicated salesperson.

Thank you for listening! If you enjoyed this episode, please take a moment to follow, rate and review the podcast and tell me your key takeaways!

Learn more about The Digitial Agency Growth Podcast at https://www.salesschema.com/podcast/ and our Video training at http://salesschema.com/takecharge 

CONNECT WITH MELISSA LOHRER:

LinkedIn

Waverly Ave. Consulting

Agency Darlings podcast

CONNECT WITH DAN ENGLANDER:

LinkedIn

Sales Schema

Watch our latest video training, How to Take Charge of Your Agency’s Future Revenue. During this training, you’ll learn how we get qualified appointments every week using tasteful and highly targeted email outreach.

In this episode of The Digital Agency Growth Podcast, Dan Englander and Kevin Lee shares the importance of understanding your client roster so that you can make better long-term decisions and actionable steps you can take today to find a balance between your number of clients and staff size.

Kevin Lee Co-Founded Didit, a leading digital-first marketing firm, in 1996. He also founded GivingForward.org, a cause-marketing nonprofit focused on generating revenues for other nonprofits. Previously to Giving Forward, Kevin founded We-Care, a cause marketing platform that generated over $8 million for nonprofits, becoming the “inspiration” for Amazon SMILE ($350 million in donations). Kevin is also the CEO of the eMarketing Association. Kevin invents marketing technology solutions for Didit clients and has written 4 books, spoken at more than 500 events, and published 700+ articles on marketing.

In this episode, Dan and Kevin Lee discuss the following:

• The evolution of an agency from SaaS to full service.
• Challenges and wins from multiple business acquisitions.
• The importance of diversifying your client base to your comfort level.
• Balancing your passions with your business responsibilities.

Thank you for listening! If you enjoyed this episode, please take a moment to follow, rate, and review the podcast and tell me your key takeaways!

Learn more about The Digitial Agency Growth Podcast at https://www.salesschema.com/podcast/ and our Video training at http://salesschema.com/takecharge 

CONNECT WITH KEVIN LEE: 

LinkedIn

Didit

CONNECT WITH DAN ENGLANDER:

LinkedIn

Sales Schema

Watch our latest video training, How to Take Charge of Your Agency’s Future Revenue. During this training, you’ll learn how we get qualified appointments every week using tasteful and highly targeted email outreach.

In this episode of The Digital Agency Growth Podcast, Brent Weaver shares the importance of specialization for digital agencies to improve performance and actionable steps you can take right now to educate prospects and help them understand their challenges in sales calls. 

Brent Weaver is on a mission to help 10,000 digital agency owners achieve freedom in business and life by helping them own their market.  Brent is the founder and CEO of UGURUS, a business training and education company dedicated to this mission. He also hosts one of the leading podcasts in the business niche—The Digital Agency Show.  Brent is in partnership with UnlimitedWP—a scalable white label WordPress development team to help digital agencies grow without all the headaches of hiring and managing people. He is also a Brand Ambassador for Cloudways, a WordPress hosting company, helping them evangelize their platform. 

In this episode, Dan and Brent discuss the following:

• The challenges of changing specialization, including changing your landing pages and copy.
• Focusing on where your leads and traffic are coming from, not just your website copy.
• Providing value to clients through flexibility and reducing the number of hops in communication.
• The evolving role of sales and helping prospective clients make informed decisions, rather than using persuasion.

Thank you for listening! If you enjoyed this episode, please take a moment to follow, rate and review the podcast and tell me your key takeaways!

Learn more about The Digitial Agency Growth Podcast at https://www.salesschema.com/podcast/ and our Video training at http://salesschema.com/takecharge 

CONNECT WITH BRENT WEAVER:

LinkedIn

UGURUS

The Digital Agency Show

YouTube

CONNECT WITH DAN ENGLANDER:

LinkedIn

Sales Schema

Watch our latest video training, How to Take Charge of Your Agency’s Future Revenue. During this training, you’ll learn how we get qualified appointments every week using tasteful and highly targeted email outreach.

In this episode of The Digital Agency Growth Podcast, Karl Sakas shares the importance of planning for an exit well before initiating it and actionable steps you can take right now to communicate and problem-solve with your employees effectively. 

Karl Sakas helps digital agency owners ‘Work Less’ and ‘Earn More’... while rewarding their best employees. Drawing on his background in agency operations, Karl has personally advised hundreds of agencies on every inhabited continent. An international speaker, he is the author of three books—including "Work Less, Earn More"—and more than 450 articles on agency management. When he’s not helping clients, Karl volunteers as a bartender on an antique train. 

In this episode, Dan and Karl discuss the following:

• Current trends in the agency business, including slower growth.
• Emphasizing the marketing efforts you can sustain rather than trying to do everything.
• Planning for an exit early to avoid difficulties down the road.
• The three A’s framework for navigating team communication.

Don’t forget to sign up to follow the release of Karl’s new book, Calm The Chaos!  Also, head to Karl’s website to access his Control (And Maximize) Your Agency Exit training, and use the code SALESSCHEMA for a discount.

Thank you for listening! If you enjoyed this episode, please take a moment to follow, rate and review the podcast and tell me your key takeaways!

Learn more about The Digitial Agency Growth Podcast at https://www.salesschema.com/podcast/ and our Video training at http://salesschema.com/takecharge 

CONNECT WITH KARL SAKAS:

LinkedIn

Website

Instagram

X (formerly Twitter)

CONNECT WITH DAN ENGLANDER:

LinkedIn

Sales Schema

Watch our latest video training, How to Take Charge of Your Agency’s Future Revenue. During this training, you’ll learn how we get qualified appointments every week using tasteful and highly targeted email outreach.

In this episode of The Digital Agency Growth Podcast, Max Traylor shares the importance of including people with industry experience in strategic conversations to gain access to board meetings and high-level discussions, and actionable steps you can take right now to gain a clear perspective on what growth means to you and your agency. 

Max Traylor is an ex-agency owner and professional paintballer turned scratch golfer & father of two who writes an Agency Survival Guide book series and helps dozens of agencies expand their client relationships using productized consulting services.

In this episode, Dan and Max discuss the following:

• Parallels between paintball and business, including that different levels of success require different skills and mindsets.
• Why doubling a business requires significantly more effort than achieving 10x growth.
• Challenges and opportunities in the current market, including the skills gap and the need for education and mentorship.
• The importance of treating services like products to achieve operational efficiency.

Thank you for listening! If you enjoyed this episode, please take a moment to follow, rate and review the podcast and tell me your key takeaways!

Learn more about The Digitial Agency Growth Podcast at https://www.salesschema.com/podcast/ and our Video training at http://salesschema.com/takecharge 

CONNECT WITH MAX TRAYLOR:

LinkedIn

CONNECT WITH DAN ENGLANDER:

LinkedIn

Sales Schema

Watch our latest video training, How to Take Charge of Your Agency’s Future Revenue. During this training, you’ll learn how we get qualified appointments every week using tasteful and highly targeted email outreach.

In this episode of The Digital Agency Growth Podcast, Adam Robinson shares the importance of building trust and personalized outreach and actionable steps you can take right now to stand out in your market. 

Adam Robinson is the Founder/CEO of Retention.com and RB2B. Adam bootstrapped Retention.com to $22m ARR in 4 years by helping ecommerce stores identify their anonymous website visitors and send them triggered emails. He launched RB2B in March of 2024 to help SaaS companies identify anonymous website visitors and see their LinkedIn profiles in Slack for free! Adam lives in Austin, TX with his wife Helen and daughter Emma.

In this episode, Dan and Adam discuss the following:

• The benefits of identifying anonymous site visitors and sending LinkedIn profiles to Slack.
• The concept of humanizing data and the impact of seeing a face on a site visit.
• The decline of cold outreach and the increasing importance of inbound and organic social media content.
• Adam’s perspective on LinkedIn evolving into an edutainment platform and its impact on content creation.

Thank you for listening! If you enjoyed this episode, please take a moment to follow, rate and review the podcast and tell me your key takeaways!

Learn more about The Digitial Agency Growth Podcast at https://www.salesschema.com/podcast/ and our Video training at http://salesschema.com/takecharge 

CONNECT WITH ADAM ROBINSON:

LinkedIn

Retention.com

RB2B

CONNECT WITH DAN ENGLANDER:

LinkedIn

Sales Schema

Watch our latest video training, How to Take Charge of Your Agency’s Future Revenue. During this training, you’ll learn how we get qualified appointments every week using tasteful and highly targeted email outreach.

In this episode of The Digital Agency Growth Podcast, Nick Petroski shares the foundational elements agencies should have, strategies that generate revenue for their clients and the operational shifts that fuel an agency’s success.

Nicholas Petroski is the founder of Promethean Research. Since 2015, he has helped over 100 digital agency owners better understand their industry and chart more effective paths to success. Before co-founding Promethean, Nick worked as an equity analyst at a Wall Street firm covering the enterprise software and semiconductor industries. 

In this episode, Dan and Nick Petroski discuss the following:

• How the level of sophistication in the agency industry has evolved over the past decade.
• Characteristics of successful "boutique" agencies today.
• The benefits of specialization and deep industry expertise.
• The shift towards a consultative, relationship-based approach to revenue generation.
• The value of using data and research to inform strategic decision-making.

Whether you're looking to specialize your offerings, improve your sales process, or build a more efficient delivery model, this conversation is packed with actionable advice to take your agency to the next level.

Thank you for listening! If you enjoyed this episode, please take a moment to follow, rate and review the podcast and tell me your key takeaways!

Learn more about The Digitial Agency Growth Podcast at https://www.salesschema.com/podcast/ and our Video training at http://salesschema.com/takecharge 

CONNECT WITH NICK PETROSKI:

LinkedIn

Promethean Research

CONNECT WITH DAN ENGLANDER:

LinkedIn

Sales Schema

Watch our latest video training, How to Take Charge of Your Agency’s Future Revenue. During this training, you’ll learn how we get qualified appointments every week using tasteful and highly targeted email outreach.

In this episode of The Digital Agency Growth Podcast, Dan Englander and Stephen Woessner share the importance of building trust with potential clients through relationship-building and actionable steps you can take right now to identify commonalities you share with your potential clients. 

Stephen Woessner is the CEO and President of Predictive ROI, a company that offers community, coaching, and turnkey services to help you lead and grow your business strategically. Stephen is also the co-author of Sell With Authority: Own and Monetize Your Agency's Authority Position. For over 25 years, Stephen has been in the trenches of agency new business strategy working alongside agencies and consultants — teaching them how to build their authority within the markets they serve, grow their audience, and fill their sales pipeline with a steady stream of right-fit clients so they can win new business. 

In this episode, Dan and Stephen discuss the following:

• How outbound marketing can fine-tune your overall marketing efforts.
• Why agency owners should offload tasks to build an effective outreach system.
• The ideal team setup for outbound marketing.
• The role of testing in outbound marketing and the importance of running campaigns over a period of time.

Don’t forget to get your hand on a copy of Stephen’s book, Sell With Authority: Own and Monetize Your Agency's Authority Position today!

Thank you for listening! If you enjoyed this episode, please take a moment to follow, rate and review the podcast and tell me your key takeaways!

Learn more about The Digitial Agency Growth Podcast at https://www.salesschema.com/podcast/ and our Video training at http://salesschema.com/takecharge 

CONNECT WITH STEPHEN WOESSNER:

LinkedIn

Facebook

Predictive ROI

Sell with Authority podcast

CONNECT WITH DAN ENGLANDER:

LinkedIn

Sales Schema

Watch our latest video training, How to Take Charge of Your Agency’s Future Revenue. During this training, you’ll learn how we get qualified appointments every week using tasteful and highly targeted email outreach.

In this episode of The Digital Agency Growth Podcast, Jonathan Stark shares the importance of understanding the value clients get from your contributions and how to package that value for sale. and actionable steps you can take right now to start targeting specific industries to get more leads. 

Jonathan Stark is a former software developer who is on a mission to rid the world of hourly billing. He is the author of Hourly Billing Is Nuts, the host of Ditching Hourly, and writes a daily newsletter on pricing for independent professionals.

In this episode, Dan and Jonathan discuss the following:

•  How hourly pricing can lead to a ceiling on income and limits the ability to scale.
• The benefits of specialization and how it can lead to more productization.
• The importance of positioning yourself as the one and only expert in your niche.
• Ways to start shifting to project or performance-based pricing.

Thank you for listening! If you enjoyed this episode, please take a moment to follow, rate and review the podcast and tell me your key takeaways!

Learn more about The Digitial Agency Growth Podcast at https://www.salesschema.com/podcast/ and our Video training at http://salesschema.com/takecharge 

CONNECT WITH JONATHAN STARK:

Value Pricing Bootcamp

CONNECT WITH DAN ENGLANDER:

LinkedIn

Sales Schema

In episode 234 of The Digital Agency Growth Podcast this week, Dan shares a sneak peek into his upcoming workshop, "The Right Words to the Right People." He dives deep into the strategies and tactics you can use to elevate your outreach game and connect with your ideal clients.

In our The Right Words to the Right People Workshop, learn how we craft email copy that secures meetings with skeptical decision-makers without spam or burnout.

In this episode, Dan discusses these key takeaways:

• The importance of building a solid foundation for your outreach by mapping your total addressable market and segmenting your target audience
• How to leverage personalization and commonalities to build trust and kinship with your prospects
• Techniques for demonstrating a deep understanding of your target market through your outreach copy
• The power of "showing, not telling" to provide inarguable evidence of your expertise
• Strategies for creating a sense of timeliness and using pattern interrupts to make your outreach stand out
• Tips for de-risking your outreach and reducing the perceived barriers to engagement

Whether you're looking to scale your agency's new business efforts or boost the effectiveness of your B2B prospecting, this episode is packed with practical insights to help you craft outreach copy that resonates with the right people and drives meaningful results.

Thank you for listening! If you enjoyed this episode, please take a moment to follow, rate and review the podcast and tell me your key takeaways!

Learn more about The Digitial Agency Growth Podcast at https://www.salesschema.com/podcast/ and our Video training at http://salesschema.com/takecharge 

CONNECT WITH DAN ENGLANDER:

LinkedIn

Sales Schema

Watch our latest video training, How to Take Charge of Your Agency’s Future Revenue. During this training, you’ll learn how we get qualified appointments every week using tasteful and highly targeted email outreach.

In this episode of The Digital Agency Growth Podcast, Jody Sutter shares the importance of efining the agency's new business ecosystem, including its promise to clients and actionable steps you can take right now to break down the  hesitancy in embracing sales, particularly the fear of rejection. 

Jody Sutter is the owner of The Sutter Company, a business development coaching and advisory firm, and the inventor of the BUILD WIN SCALE™ system, a step-by-step process designed to help leaders of small marketing agencies identify and activate their natural talents for sales and marketing, leading to a sustainable approach to winning new business. She started The Sutter Company after more than two decades of running business development teams for agencies, large and small and spanning a diverse list of disciplines. They’ve included R/GA, OMD, Havas Media and The VIA Agency. Equal parts storyteller and problem-solver, she knows how to prescribe the tools and techniques that are right for your agency to get your prospects to say “yes”.

In this episode, Dan and Jody discuss the following:

• The importance of taking consistent action and being willing to try different approaches.
• Jody’s four business personality roles and how they approach business development.
• Moving past rejection and onto the next business opportunity without deterring the agency.
• Building systems for long-term sales success.

Don’t forget to check out Jody’s book, A Small Agency’s Guide to Winning New Business: 8 Steps to Winning More of the Right Kinds of Clients on Amazon.

Thank you for listening! If you enjoyed this episode, please take a moment to follow, rate and review the podcast and tell me your key takeaways!

Learn more about The Digital Agency Growth Podcast at https://www.salesschema.com/podcast/ and our Video training at http://salesschema.com/takecharge 

CONNECT WITH JODY SUTTER:

LinkedIn

X (formerly Twitter)

The Sutter Company

CONNECT WITH DAN ENGLANDER:

LinkedIn

Sales Schema

Watch our latest video training, How to Take Charge of Your Agency’s Future Revenue. During this training, you’ll learn how we get qualified appointments every week using tasteful and highly targeted email outreach.

In this episode of The Digital Agency Growth Podcast, Steve Guberman shares the importance of setting boundaries and honoring personal values to avoid burnout and actionable steps you can take right now to document your sales process to get the agency owner out of the sales seat. 

With over 25 years in the creative, marketing, advertising, and public relations industry, including a decade spent running and eventually selling his own successful agency, Steve Guberman now channels his expertise into coaching agency owners. As the founder of Agency Outsight, Steve helps owners unearth their challenges, define their goals, and conquer them all, enabling them to build and run the agency of their dreams.

In this episode, Dan and Steve discuss the following:

• Recognizing past successes to combat low self-esteem and imposter syndrome as an agency owner.
• Focusing on showing more value and relevance to clients in a mature market.
• Time blocking and documenting sales processes as essential tools for managing workload and reducing stress.
• The importance of systematizing sales processes to free up the owner's time and grow the agency.

Thank you for listening! If you enjoyed this episode, please take a moment to follow, rate and review the podcast and tell me your key takeaways!

Learn more about The Digitial Agency Growth Podcast at https://www.salesschema.com/podcast/ and our Video training at http://salesschema.com/takecharge 

CONNECT WITH STEVE GUBERMAN:

LinkedIn

Outsight

YouTube

Agency Bytes podcast

CONNECT WITH DAN ENGLANDER:

LinkedIn

Sales Schema

Watch our latest video training, How to Take Charge of Your Agency’s Future Revenue. During this training, you’ll learn how we get qualified appointments every week using tasteful and highly targeted email outreach.

In this episode of The Digital Agency Growth Podcast, Jonathan Baker shares the importance of patience in the M&A process and actionable steps you can take right now to start preparing your agency for acquisition, well before valuation. 

Jonathan Baker is the Practice Lead of the M&A practice at Punctuation, a small consultancy focused exclusively on servicing creative, digital, and marketing services firms. After starting his carrer in marketing strategy and positioning, Jonathan left in 2011 to pursue his own business, Monday Night Brewing. Along with two business partners,he has grown the craft brewery to five locations and nto one of the largest craft breweries in the nation by volume. My focus has been on marketing, sales, and taprooms. Jonathan recently stepped out of the day-to-day at Monday Night to work with his father David to grow Punctuation.

In this episode, Dan and Jonathan discuss the following:

• COVID’s impact on agency goals due to vulnerability.
• Focusing on a few key lead generation activities instead of spreading yourself thin.
• The importance of patience in the M&A process.
• Challenges that can ruin a deal last minute.

Thank you for listening! If you enjoyed this episode, please take a moment to follow, rate and review the podcast and tell me your key takeaways!

Learn more about The Digitial Agency Growth Podcast at https://www.salesschema.com/podcast/ and our Video training at http://salesschema.com/takecharge 

CONNECT WITH JONATHAN BAKER:

LinkedIn

Punctuation

Monday Night Brewing

CONNECT WITH DAN ENGLANDER:

LinkedIn

Sales Schema

Watch our latest video training, How to Take Charge of Your Agency’s Future Revenue. During this training, you’ll learn how we get qualified appointments every week using tasteful and highly targeted email outreach.

In this episode of The Digital Agency Growth Podcast, Marcel Petitpas shares the importance of positioning and niching down and actionable steps you can take right now to ensure you’re managing costs effectively in order to improve your profit margins. 

Marcel Petitpas is the CEO & Co-Founder of Parakeeto, a company dedicated to helping agencies improve their profitability by streamlining their operations and reporting systems. He is also the head strategic coach at SaaS Academy by Dan Martell, the #1 coaching program for B2B SaaS businesses in the world.  In his work as a speaker, podcast host and consultant, specializing in Agency Profitability Optimization, Marcel has helped hundreds of agencies around the world improve profitability and cash flow in their business.  

In this episode, Dan and Marcel discuss the following:

• The need for human intervention in data quality.
• Different ways to make agencies more profitable.
• Shortening the cash conversion cycle to maintain growth without cash flow issues.
• How being overstaffed is likely an agency’s biggest problem.

If you’re looking to start increasing your agency’s profitability, you can start by checking out Parakeeto’s free Agency Profitability Toolkit! If you’re looking to dive deeping into mastering the art of modeling, forecasting, measuring, and improving the profitability of your agency, check out Parakeeto's Foundations Course!

Thank you for listening! If you enjoyed this episode, please take a moment to follow, rate and review the podcast and tell me your key takeaways!

Learn more about The Digitial Agency Growth Podcast at https://www.salesschema.com/podcast/ and our Video training at http://salesschema.com/takecharge 

CONNECT WITH MARCEL PETITPAS:

LinkedIn

Website

Parakeeto

CONNECT WITH DAN ENGLANDER:

LinkedIn

Sales Schema

Watch our latest video training, How to Take Charge of Your Agency’s Future Revenue. During this training, you’ll learn how we get qualified appointments every week using tasteful and highly targeted email outreach.

In this episode of The Digital Agency Growth Podcast, Dan Englander shares the importance of understanding the reasons behind low open rates and addressing them systematically and actionable steps you can take right now to build successful relationships that lead to meetings and interested prospective clients. 

In this episode, Dan discusses the following:

• The current trust recession and how building relationships can help.
• Four common hazards in outbound sales to avoid for success. 
• The order of operations in optimization, from open rates to meeting rates.
• The need for a systematic approach to converting replies and agreements into meetings.

Thank you for listening! If you enjoyed this episode, please take a moment to follow, rate and review the podcast and tell me your key takeaways!

Learn more about The Digitial Agency Growth Podcast at https://www.salesschema.com/podcast/ and our Video training at http://salesschema.com/takecharge 

CONNECT WITH DAN ENGLANDER:

LinkedIn

Sales Schema

Watch our latest video training, How to Take Charge of Your Agency’s Future Revenue. During this training, you’ll learn how we get qualified appointments every week using tasteful and highly targeted email outreach.

In this episode of The Digital Agency Growth Podcast, Dan Englander shares the importance of not hiring too early for your business and actionable steps you can take right now to get your agency’s owner out of the sales seat. 

In this episode, Dan discusses the following:

• The healthy way to think about outbound for long term growth.
• The four siren song mistakes that go along with agencies hiring for business development. 
• Why the outbound lead generation playbook is broken and what to do instead.
• Understanding the ins and outs of relationship sales at scale.

Thank you for listening! If you enjoyed this episode, please take a moment to follow, rate and review the podcast and tell me your key takeaways!

Learn more about The Digitial Agency Growth Podcast at https://www.salesschema.com/podcast/ and our Video training at http://salesschema.com/takecharge 

CONNECT WITH DAN ENGLANDER:

LinkedIn

Sales Schema

Watch our latest video training, How to Take Charge of Your Agency’s Future Revenue. During this training, you’ll learn how we get qualified appointments every week using tasteful and highly targeted email outreach.

In this episode of The Digital Agency Growth Podcast, Danny Markstein shares the importance of being scrappy and adaptable in the early stages of business development and actionable steps you can take right now to be competitive in your market. 

Danny Markstein is an experienced communications professional with more than 20 years of experience in the public, private, and nonprofit sectors. Danny founded Markstein in 2003 as a strategic consulting agency. Today, Markstein is a full-service creative communications agency. Visit markstein.co to unlock additional workforce solutions.

In this episode, Dan and Danny discuss the following:

• The initial challenges of starting a consulting firm.
• Challenges of workforce participation and the impact of the pandemic on employment rates.
• The importance of accurate and clear communication in recruiting and retaining employees.
• The decision to specialize and  the continued flow of creative work through the agency. 

Thank you for listening! If you enjoyed this episode, please take a moment to follow, rate and review the podcast and tell me your key takeaways!

Learn more about The Digitial Agency Growth Podcast at https://www.salesschema.com/podcast/ and our Video training at http://salesschema.com/takecharge 

CONNECT WITH DANNY MARKSTEIN:

LinkedIn

X (formerly Twitter)

Markstein

CONNECT WITH DAN ENGLANDER:

LinkedIn

Sales Schema

Watch our latest video training, How to Take Charge of Your Agency’s Future Revenue. During this training, you’ll learn how we get qualified appointments every week using tasteful and highly targeted email outreach.

In this episode of The Digital Agency Growth Podcast, Jon Tsourakis shares the importance of team alignment and cultural fit in making strategic decisions and actionable steps you can take right now to check the efficacy of your sales process. 

Jon Tsourakis is a seasoned leader, marketer and sales expert. He’s the co-owner and President of Oyova, a national marketing and application development agency where he helps the firm identify and capitalize on new opportunities. He's a huge proponent of helping others, whether that's through one-on-one mentoring or collaborating with top digital agency owners in the Digital Mastermind where he hosts his podcast The Climb. 

In this episode, Dan and Jon discuss the following:

• The search for more fulfilling client relationships and the role of clear scopes and satisfactory results in building these relationships.
• The ability to share knowledge without compromising client relationships.
• The challenges of creating engaging content on LinkedIn and the evolving nature of content platforms.
• Navigating mergers and acquisitions, whether one-on-one or with a broker.

Thank you for listening! If you enjoyed this episode, please take a moment to follow, rate and review the podcast and tell me your key takeaways!

Learn more about The Digitial Agency Growth Podcast at https://www.salesschema.com/podcast/ and our Video training at http://salesschema.com/takecharge 

CONNECT WITH JON TSOURAKIS:

LinkedIn

Digital Mastermind

CONNECT WITH DAN ENGLANDER:

LinkedIn

Sales Schema

Watch our latest video training, How to Take Charge of Your Agency’s Future Revenue. During this training, you’ll learn how we get qualified appointments every week using tasteful and highly targeted email outreach.

In this episode of The Digital Agency Growth Podcast, Mandi Ellefson shares the importance of specialization in growing an agency and actionable steps you can take right now to make your business run without you. 

Mandi Ellefson went from $175k debt to multimillionaire status by revolutionizing consulting agencies. Through Hands-Off CEO, she rescues agency owners from the daily grind, transforming million-dollar agencies into self-sustaining enterprises. With her expertise, she's boosted hundreds of agencies to millions in revenue, attracting premium clients willing to pay 50-600% fees. As a former business exit advisor, she crafts exit strategies, adding up to five figures to clients’ monthly net profit so they can focus on growth. She shares her wisdom as a published author and host of the Hands-Off CEO Podcast, helping consulting agencies triple fees and scale without less reliance on the CEO.

In this episode, Dan and Mandi discuss the following:

• How agencies limit themselves by focusing on custom solutions.
• How to increase value and decrease risk for clients.
• Creating an irresistible offer to attract ideal clients that’s also exciting to the agency.
• The importance of delivering on promises and scaling with aligning with integrity.

Thank you for listening! If you enjoyed this episode, please take a moment to follow, rate and review the podcast and tell me your key takeaways!

Learn more about The Digitial Agency Growth Podcast at https://www.salesschema.com/podcast/ and our Video training at http://salesschema.com/takecharge 

CONNECT WITH MANDI ELLEFSON:

LinkedIn

X (formerly Twitter)

Hands-Off CEO Podcast

Website

CONNECT WITH DAN ENGLANDER:

LinkedIn

Sales Schema

Watch our latest video training, How to Take Charge of Your Agency’s Future Revenue. During this training, you’ll learn how we get qualified appointments every week using tasteful and highly targeted email outreach.

In this episode of The Digital Agency Growth Podcast, Mike Brevik shares the importance of carrying your branding through all of your marketing efforts and actionable steps you can take right now to successfully utilize guerrilla marketing for your business. 

Mike Brevik is a Brand and Marketing Strategist who partners with startups and well established companies to grow their professional brands. With 20+ years in the print, creative, and marketing industry, Mike spent over a decade of that time leading and building eCommerce solutions, Social Media strategies, and everything in between for two of the Midwest's largest retailers. Building relationships is key to Mike's approach and has enabled him to work with several premier brands from Nike, to Jordan, to Under Armour, to Harley Davidson, and many more along the way.

In this episode, Dan and Mike discuss the following:

• Why branding is not the be all, end all of your marketing practices.
• The 80/20 rule of conventional versus unconventional marketing.
• The importance of hiring flexible people willing to try the unusual.
• Leveraging nostalgia in your modern marketing efforts.

Thank you for listening! If you enjoyed this episode, please take a moment to follow, rate and review the podcast and tell me your key takeaways!

Learn more about The Digitial Agency Growth Podcast at https://www.salesschema.com/podcast/ and our Video training at http://salesschema.com/takecharge 

CONNECT WITH MIKE BREVIK:

LinkedIn

Cyberdogz

Brand Retro with Cyberdogz podcast

CONNECT WITH DAN ENGLANDER:

LinkedIn

Sales Schema

Watch our latest video training, How to Take Charge of Your Agency’s Future Revenue. During this training, you’ll learn how we get qualified appointments every week using tasteful and highly targeted email outreach.

In this episode of The Digital Agency Growth Podcast, Josh Ledgard shares the importance of focusing on the marketing fundamentals and actionable steps you can take right now to improve your referral marketing strategy. 

Josh Ledgard, founder of KickoffLabs, brings a powerful tool for businesses focused on audience growth. With experience ranging from Big Tech to Social Media companies, he developed KickoffLabs, along with his co-founder, to simplify the process of generating word of mouth referrals, launching a new product, and running giveaways designed to promote your business. Outside of work he enjoys playing recreational baseball and spending time with his family. 

In this episode, Dan and Josh discuss the following:

• The trust recession and how companies are scrutinizing their marketing budgets.
• Different types of referral programs and their pros and cons.
• Getting a grasp on the basics before building a robust referral system for your business.
• Crafting personalized emails and content to show the people behind the brand.

Thank you for listening! If you enjoyed this episode, please take a moment to follow, rate and review the podcast and tell me your key takeaways!

Learn more about The Digitial Agency Growth Podcast at https://www.salesschema.com/podcast/ and our Video training at http://salesschema.com/takecharge 

CONNECT WITH JOSH LEDGARD:

LinkedIn

Website

X (formerly Twitter)

KickoffLabs

CONNECT WITH DAN ENGLANDER:

LinkedIn

Sales Schema

Watch our latest video training, How to Take Charge of Your Agency’s Future Revenue. During this training, you’ll learn how we get qualified appointments every week using tasteful and highly targeted email outreach.

In this episode of The Digital Agency Growth Podcast, Raul Hernandez Ochoa shares the importance of communication and value delivery in branding and actionable steps you can take right now to identify what sets you apart from competitors. 

Raul Hernandez Ochoa is a Digital Growth Operator and Strategist that helps digital bootstrapped business owners reach their impact & revenue goals. His frameworks have helped 2-5x companies. Raul has led strategy for multiple digital teams across the globe in 12+ different time zones helping generate millions in revenue online. He has also overseen over $25M (and counting) in digital marketing ad spend and has trained hundreds of entrepreneurs through live seminars, online programs, and private masterminds. 

In this episode, Dan and Raul discuss the following:

• Raul’s rule of 21 for gathering quality data and making decisions.
• How to determine the best clients for your agency.
• Leaning into your strengths to differentiate yourself in the market.
• Why clients want to work with professionals who have skin in the game.

Thank you for listening! If you enjoyed this episode, please take a moment to follow, rate and review the podcast and tell me your key takeaways!

Learn more about The Digitial Agency Growth Podcast at https://www.salesschema.com/podcast/ and our Video training at http://salesschema.com/takecharge 

CONNECT WITH RAUL HERNANDEZ OCHOA:

LinkedIn

Do Good Work

X (formerly Twitter)

CONNECT WITH DAN ENGLANDER:

LinkedIn

Sales Schema

Watch our latest video training, How to Take Charge of Your Agency’s Future Revenue. During this training, you’ll learn how we get qualified appointments every week using tasteful and highly targeted email outreach.

In this episode of The Digital Agency Growth Podcast, Chelsea Olsen shares the importance of understanding your target audience and actionable steps you can take right now to automate and organize your personalized outreach to your target audiences. 

Chelsea Olsen is a fractional leader who knows exactly how to get your business more leads and new customers. She has spent nearly 20 years honing her skills in selling efficiently, leading her to master the art of closing deals and driving revenue growth. Chelsea works with companies that value continuous growth, openness to innovation, and a commitment to introspection and accountability.

In this episode, Dan and Chelsea discuss the following:

• What good sales training and exceptional hires look like for agencies.
• Getting clear on your target audience so you can solve their specific problems.
• The concept of GWC in hiring - get it, want it, have the capacity for it.
• Utilizing automation to speed up and organize your outreach efforts.

Thank you for listening! If you enjoyed this episode, please take a moment to follow, rate and review the podcast and tell me your key takeaways!

Learn more about The Digitial Agency Growth Podcast at https://www.salesschema.com/podcast/ and our Video training at http://salesschema.com/takecharge 

CONNECT WITH CHELSEA OLSEN:

LinkedIn

Website

CONNECT WITH DAN ENGLANDER:

LinkedIn

Sales Schema

Watch our latest video training, How to Take Charge of Your Agency’s Future Revenue. During this training, you’ll learn how we get qualified appointments every week using tasteful and highly targeted email outreach.

In this episode of The Digital Agency Growth Podcast, Ethan McCarty shares the importance of values and transparency in the company's culture and actionable steps you can take right now to build trust and stronger relationships with potential clients. 

Ethan is the founder and CEO of Integral, an award-winning employee experience agency serving leaders of Communications, HR, Marketing, and Technology at global and local organizations. Formerly the global head of Employee and Innovation Communications for Bloomberg LP and Global Director of Social Strategy for IBM, Ethan has more than 20 years experience leading digital communications, engagement, and marketing initiatives at scale. Ethan has led large, globally and culturally diverse teams by innovating and humanizing the practice and advising senior leaders from the CEO to first-line managers among his clients on how to do the same.

In this episode, Dan and Ethan discuss the following:

• The benefits of both in-person collaboration and remote work.
• Expecting long sales cycles while working with large companies.
• Building trust and establishing credibility through networking, volunteering, and mentorship.
• The shift in management philosophy from enforcing rules to removing blockers.

To read the Third Edition of the Integral Index, check out Integral’s website!

Thank you for listening! If you enjoyed this episode, please take a moment to follow, rate and review the podcast and tell me your key takeaways!

Learn more about The Digitial Agency Growth Podcast at https://www.salesschema.com/podcast/ and our Video training at http://salesschema.com/takecharge 

CONNECT WITH ETHAN MCCARTY:

LinkedIn

Integral

CONNECT WITH DAN ENGLANDER:

LinkedIn

Sales Schema

LINKS MENTIONED:

Page.org

Institute for Public Relations

Diversity Action Alliance

Full Sequence Coaching

Watch our latest video training, How to Take Charge of Your Agency’s Future Revenue. During this training, you’ll learn how we get qualified appointments every week using tasteful and highly targeted email outreach.

In this episode of The Digital Agency Growth Podcast, Dan Englander shares the importance of building strong business relationships amidst the trust recession and actionable steps you can take right now to optimize outbound marketing for your agency’s needs. 

In this episode, Dan discusses the following:

• The four levels of sophistication in sales for agencies – from glorified freelancer to cruisers.
• The pros and cons of outbound marketing and why it could drastically change your business.
• Identifying prospects by leveraging commonalities with existing clients and networks.
• How lack of clarity and follow-through kill outbound strategies and how to fix it.

If you think the Targeted Outreach System is a fit for your organization and want to learn more, please visit salesschema.com/enrollment!

Thank you for listening! If you enjoyed this episode, please take a moment to follow, rate and review the podcast and tell me your key takeaways!

Learn more about The Digitial Agency Growth Podcast at https://www.salesschema.com/podcast/ and our Video training at http://salesschema.com/takecharge 

CONNECT WITH DAN ENGLANDER:

LinkedIn

Sales Schema

LINKS MENTIONED:

The Targeted Outreach System

Watch our latest video training, How to Take Charge of Your Agency’s Future Revenue. During this training, you’ll learn how we get qualified appointments every week using tasteful and highly targeted email outreach.

In this episode of The Digital Agency Growth Podcast, Matt Lincoln shares the importance of personalization in sales outreach strategies and actionable steps you can take right now to narrow down your search to the leads that are right for your business. 

Matt Lincoln is the Principal Product Manager at Apollo.io, the leading go-to-market (GTM) solution for sales and marketing teams. Apollo.io is one of the fastest-growing companies in SaaS, with 9x ARR growth since 2021. The company currently serves over 500,000 companies like Qualtrics, Customer.io, and Census, as well as millions of GTM professionals globally. Matt is a seasoned product leader who joined Apollo in July 2023 to help navigate the mysteries of deliverability through self-serve tools that deliver the right message, to the right customer, at the right time. He has over a decade of experience creating product roadmaps, aligning stakeholders, and setting the product vision at global organizations like Shopify, United Airlines, and Staples.

In this episode, Dan and Matt discuss the following:

• The past, present, and future of sales engagement.
• Why the Predictable Revenue Model is broken.
• Google and Yahoo’s big changes that affect email deliverability.
• The uses of AI in sales and outreach efforts.

Thank you for listening! If you enjoyed this episode, please take a moment to follow, rate and review the podcast and tell me your key takeaways!

Learn more about The Digitial Agency Growth Podcast at https://www.salesschema.com/podcast/ and our Video training at http://salesschema.com/takecharge 

CONNECT WITH MATT LINCOLN:

Apollo.io

X (formerly Twitter)

LinkedIn

CONNECT WITH DAN ENGLANDER:

LinkedIn

Sales Schema

Watch our latest video training, How to Take Charge of Your Agency’s Future Revenue. During this training, you’ll learn how we get qualified appointments every week using tasteful and highly targeted email outreach.

In this episode of The Digital Agency Growth Podcast, Drew McLellan discusses the importance of building trust with prospective clients long before a sale and actionable steps you can take right now to establish your agency as a thought leader in your space. 

Drew McLellan has worked in advertising for 30+ years and started his own agency, McLellan Marketing Group in 1995 after a five-year stint at Y&R and still actively runs the agency.  He spends the lion’s share of his time running Agency Management Institute (AMI), which he also owns. AMI serves thousands of agencies small to mid-sized agencies (advertising, digital, marketing, media and PR) every year, so they can increase their AGI, attract better clients and employees, mitigate the risks of being self-employed in a such volatile business and best of all — let the agency owner actually enjoy the perks of agency ownership.

In this episode, Dan and Drew discuss the following:

• Finding the advantages of being an agency owner.
• The importance of scalability and balance in agency growth.
• Building trust with potential clients long before making the sale.
• AI’s usefulness for data analysis in agencies, but not for strategy.

Thank you for listening! If you enjoyed this episode, please take a moment to follow, rate and review the podcast and tell me your key takeaways!

Learn more about The Digitial Agency Growth Podcast at https://www.salesschema.com/podcast/ and our Video training at http://salesschema.com/takecharge 

CONNECT WITH DREW MCLELLAN:

Agency Management Institute

LinkedIn

X (formerly Twitter)

Website