Father Greg Boyle has spent most of his adult years helping transform the lives of former gang members at Homeboy Industries in Los Angeles. In this conversation he applies his many lessons learned to how we can increase joy and reduce loneliness in schools through kinship, mercy, and meaning.

We cover a lot of territory, including: 

2:21 Greg’s childhood on Norton Avenue

4:23 How Bolivia turned Greg inside out

9:00 How Homeboy Industries came to be

12:26 Building a powerful culture

16:50 A powerful message from a Homie to teachers

19:02 The cultural problem in American schools (the power of relationships)

21:23 The powerful story of Lencho and true belonging

25:30 Exquisite compassion and merciful community

30:09 How Father Greg’s school addressed the most difficult students

31:02 Steve seeks counsel on the youth mental health crisis

33:13 The recipe for sadness and the recipe for joy and wholeness

36:57 How schools are rising to meet the challenge

40:06 Father Greg tells a story you won’t want to miss

Learn more about Father Greg and Homeboy Industries

Homeboy Industries’ powerful 30-year anniversary short video

Father Greg’s commencement address at Pepperdine University

Mike Wallace’s 1992 60 Minutes story on Father Greg

We cover a lot territory, including:

4:00 Black in a White school

7:42 Michelle’s awakening

10:58 The personal cost of assimilation

15:05 Michelle’s challenge to you

18:08 Personal filters and blind spots

19:50 Decolonizing our schools

21:43 Liberating the curriculum

24:16 The startling impact of non-representation

26:44 Individualistic vs. collectivist cultures

29:48 Liberating classroom communication

35:20 Deficit thinking: our subconscious biases about intelligence

39:31 Ability grouping’s harmful effects

43:11 What’s stopping us from being culturally responsive?

48:35 Michelle’s call to action

Michelle Pledger’s personal website

Michelle’s about page at the High Tech High Graduate School of Education

Purchase Liberate! Pocket-Sized Paradigms for Liberatory Learning

About Experience Matters

Experience Matters with Steve Shapiro invites guests to reflect on the most profound learning experiences of their youth and to consider how we can reform American schools. Each episode provides clues about how parents and educators alike can engage young people in powerful, sometimes transformational experiential learning. Education can take many forms, but whatever form it takes- experience matters. 

We cover a lot of territory, including:

2:55 The difference between hockey and school

7:40 Our basic human need 

8:50 Russ’s definition of voice

11:21 The (often missing) factor needed for voice to thrive

14:50 Why surveys often fail (or worse)

17:30 Can kids really know what’s best for them?

22:24 The students we often overlook

26:24 A sense of belonging

28:25 The link between voice and learning

30:25 The link between voice and democratic citizenship

31:57 What’s stopping us?

33:49 Reflect on our purpose and renew our passion
 

Link to the Quaglia Institute for Voice and Aspirations

Link to Steve’s short video reflecting on what has really mattered in his career

About Experience Matters

Experience Matters with Steve Shapiro invites guests to reflect on the most profound learning experiences of their youth and to consider how we can reform American schools. Each episode provides clues about how parents and educators alike can engage young people in powerful, sometimes transformational experiential learning. Education can take many forms, but whatever form it takes- experience matters. 

When Dr. Stuart Slavin received disturbing data about the dismal mental health of students at St. Louis University School of Medicine, he broke into action. The changes that Dr. Slavin and his faculty made transformed the mental health of their students…AND improved their learning outcomes! This is a MUST LISTEN episode.

We cover a lot of territory, including:

0:54 Great news and a warning

4:29 Stuart in denial

6:12 Stuart confronts the dismal truth with a heroic response

8:20 Identifying the 3 main stressors and attacking them

9:50 Understanding the crisis as an environmental context issue

11:25 Stuart makes specific teaching and learning changes

13:09 Wait this is insane! The Yerkes-Dodson Curve

14:37 Creating space for powerful self-directed learning experiences

16:53 Cutting back content to focus on the essentials

18:26 Undoing problematic mindsets through cognitive restructuring

22:14 Surprising survey results on sleep and study time

22:51 Why wellness programs often backfire

23:51 STUNNING improvements in mental health and learning

26:25 High school might be harder than med school

28:15 Steve surprises Stuart with a new perspective on his work

29:41 The mistake high schools make when considering mental health

30:40 Achievement culture and racism both have institutional factors

32:35 The simple first step high schools can take

34:25 Where to focus: well-being or satisfaction?

37:30 A new learning value in a rapidly changing world

38:42 What about teachers’ mental health?

41:24 Stuart’s passionate plea to educators and parents- WE CAN DO THIS!

Dr. Slavin’s 2014 article in the journal Academic Medicine: Medical Student Mental Health 3.0: Improving Student Wellness Through Curricular Changes

Dr. Slavin’s 2019 Journal of Academic Medicine article: Reflections on a Decade Leading a Medical Student Well-Being Initiative

Steve’s blog post about impermanent learning: The Uncomfortable Truth About School

Steve’s conversation with Emmy Huefner about her encouneters with achievement culture stress as a student.

Steve’s conversation with Dr. William Stixrud about the impact chronic achievement culture stress has on the adolescent brain.

We are in the midst of a youth mental health crisis, especially among kids in “high achieving” schools. Neuropsychologist William Stixrud has a front row-seat to the crisis, with unique insight into emerging research on the impact that “achievement-culture” related chronic stress and anxiety have on the adolescent brain. 

We cover a lot of territory, including:

4:20 How the Beatles shaped Bill’s brain

7:46 The difference between rich and poor kids’ mental health 

8:58 The mental health status of “high achieving kids”

10:51 Detailing the adolescent mental health CRISIS

13:19 The cruel untruths we tell teens

16:52 How stress “sculpts” the adolescent brain

18:39 The relationship between the prefrontal cortex and the amygdala 

21:41 A crazy story about fearing a kid in Iowa

23:17 How depression “scars” kids’ brains

24:27 The most important indicator of a successful childhood

26:58 How fear fuels the problem

29:00 The most stressful thing in the universe

30:47 Teenagers’ experience of learned helplessness

32:53 School policy strips kids of autonomy

34:53 Teachers need autonomy too!

38:11 The startling paradox of “good schools”

Here’s a link to my conversation with Emmy Huefner about her experiences with achievement culture stress.

Julia Freeland Fisher is the director of education research at the Clayton Christensen Institute. Her team educates policymakers and community leaders on the power of disruptive innovation, aiming to transform monolithic, factory-model education systems into student-centered designs that enable each student to realize his or her fullest potential. Julia is also the author of Who You Know: Unlocking Innovations That Expand Students’ Networks, along with a great collection of blog posts and this AMAZING PLAYBOOK for implementing the ideas we discuss in the episode. 

We cover a lot of territory including:

2:54 How Bear McCreary became one of the top composers of our time

5:20 Young Julia’s 1st-hand experience with “opportunity gaps”

6:53 Two types of social capital: getting by vs. getting ahead

9:01 WHAT you know vs. WHO you know

10:25 Breaking out of the school’s embryonic community

11:28 The inequity of inherited social networks

13:13 How “enrichment spending” exacerbates inequity

14:18 Research on the link between social capital and economic mobility

15:25 How schools can tap into community capital

18:23 Existing models for schools to engage networks

21:32 Overcoming “Byzantine” school schedules

24:54 How schools can track and systemize social capital

26:15 What gets measured gets done

27:38 A challenge to affluent people who care about equity

29:30 Whose job is this?

30:44 A simple first step for school leaders

31:52 The “low-hanging fruit”- Internship programs

33:20 Models/programs for school-wide implementation

34:51 Connecting with our WHY and overcoming teacher burnout

Here are some programs and tools Julia discusses in the interview:

Big Picture Learning Network

ImBlaze

Educurious

CommunityShare

The Forest School

Social Capital Builders

Connected Futures

Career Launch

Today Sam Levin is the 29-year-old Oxford PhD CEO of a biotech company. Thirteen years ago he was a high school junior exasperated at his friends’ disengagement and unhappiness at school. So he did something about it! Now students, teachers, and parents are taking note of his bold vision.

We cover a lot of territory including:

3:11 The seeds of Sam’s discontent with school

4:28 Sam’s mom puts forth a challenge

5:11 A community garden reveals that teens can love learning and hard work

6:34 How teachers unfairly label students

8:46 Sam’s vision for a  student-run school meets resistance

10:37 The teacher that shattered Sam’s illusions

12:04 The remarkable vision of the Independent Project

13:39 Parents' fears about the Independent Project

14:15 The relationship between pedagogy and tracking/ability grouping

15:40 The foundational reasons we should stop tracking kids

16:58 The remarkable design of the Independent Project

19:07 Every student creates an “individual endeavor” around a passion

19:39 Getting into college

20:29 A “collective endeavor” to promote powerful collaboration

21:32 Practicing 21st century skills

22:50 The life-changing impact of the Independent Project

25:17 De-orientation to break bad school habits

26:30 Sam’s PhD. and the creation of Melonfrost

28:04 How the Independent Project planted the seeds for Sam’s CEO success

30:02 Sam’s advice to educators

31:30 Steve poses a thought experiment

Independent Project documentary (14 minutes)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RElUmGI5gLc

Sam and his mom’s book about the Independent Project
https://thenewpress.com/books/school-of-our-own

Sam’s biotech company- Melonfrost
 https://www.melonfrost.com

If you liked this podcast, here are some other episodes you can check out:

A portrait of an exhausted, dispirited high school student: https://www.steventshapiro.com/experiencematters/a-letter-to-my-younger-self-with-emmy-huefner

A mini version of the Independent Project for middle school students: https://www.steventshapiro.com/experiencematters/suzannegoldsmithhirsch

Harvard thought-leader on 21st century learning Tony Wagner on why our kids need schools like the independent project: https://www.steventshapiro.com/experiencematters/tuned-in-to-the-future-with-tony-wagner

NYTimes bestselling author Daniel Pink on how autonomous learning transformed his brain: https://www.steventshapiro.com/experiencematters/the-epiphany-with-daniel-pink 

About Experience Matters

Experience Matters with Steve Shapiro invites guests to reflect on the most profound learning experiences of their youth and to consider how we can reform American schools. Each episode provides clues about how parents and educators alike can engage young people in powerful, sometimes transformational experiential learning. Education can take many forms, but whatever form it takes- experience matters. 

A surprise package arrived at 11-year-old Tony Wagner’s house that permanently impacted his understanding of learning. Decades later, after a career that included twenty years of thought leadership at Harvard University and multiple best-selling books on school reform, Wagner connects the dots to the essential 21st century skills our schools are missing. 

Tony Wagner is one of the nation’s leading educational reformers. His books

·      The Global Achievement Gap: Why Even Our Best Schools Don’t Teach the New Survival Skills Our Children Need- And What We Can Do About It

·      Creating Innovators: The Making of Young People Who Will Change the World

·      Most Likely To Succeed: Preparing Our Kids for the Innovation Era

make the case for modernizing schools to focus on innovation and creative problem-solving skills. In our conversation he shares the learning experiences that shaped him and the challenges that our schools face as they try to prepare young people for a rapidly changing world.

We cover a lot of territory including:

3:15 The experience that forever changed 11-year-old Tony

6:50 Persistence creates a EUREKA moment!

8:15 Failure---Persistence---Curiosity---Learning

9:50 The genesis of Tony’s writing career

11:35 Tony’s writing teacher who wasn’t really his teacher

13:38 The piece of classic literature that provided Tony’s “a-ha moment”

15:15 The difference between Tony and Daniel Pink as students

17:10 Reflecting on Ted Sizer’s Coalition of Essential Schools reform movement

19:58 The destructive impact of standardized testing

20:35 The stunning insights from conversations with business and military leaders

22:25 How schools kill innovation thinking

24:38 Why innovation and creative problem solving are so essential

26:17 A simple suggestion for teachers to nurture creativity

28:18 The tremendous damage of the accountability movement

30:43 The future of schools and the need for business leaders to speak out

32:40 Play, Passion, and Purpose

Tony Wagner’s Website: https://www.tonywagner.com

Tony’s Books: https://www.tonywagner.com/books

My favorite Tony Wagner quotes (discussed at 22:16)

·      "Not only are we not developing and cultivating creative geniuses in our schools, we may actually be doing the opposite."

·      "The culture of schooling is radically at odds with the culture of learning that creates innovators."

About Experience Matters

Experience Matters with Steve Shapiro invites guests to reflect on the most profound learning experiences of their youth and to consider how we can reform American schools. Each episode provides clues about how parents and educators alike can engage young people in powerful, sometimes transformational experiential learning. Education can take many forms, but whatever form it takes- experience matters.

We cover a lot of territory including:

1:50:  Steve offers two important disclaimers (Here's the episode about achievement culture stress described in the disclaimer.)

4:51: How social media around college admissions harms students’ mental health

7:13: The great misconception about being a “well-rounded student”

9:42: How to identify your “passion” (interest + action)

10:26: Julie’s personal journey as a student

12:05: Selling out your childhood for a fallacy

12:39: An example of a student’s passion project

14:23: The story of a friend’s son who didn’t get into his top choice college

16:07: How to figure out your passion (or how schools need to change)

17:49 Why project-based learning is so powerful

18:59: The enormous power of connecting with adults

24:17: The view from a college admissions officer’s seat

27:07 How colleges look for intellectual curiosity. Hint: experience matters

29:42: Julie and Steve reimagine what’s possible in schools

31:52: Julie’s surprising advice to teenagers 

My favorite quote from this episode:

“(When students work on a passion project) I think they feel refreshed that there’s another way to navigate life as an adolescent… A lot of my students tell me…no one told me that this was possible for me. So I think they feel like this is refreshing, and a little hopeful as well .” (21:50) 

Julie Kim’s website: https://juliekimconsulting.com

About Experience Matters

Experience Matters with Steve Shapiro invites guests to reflect on the most profound learning experiences of their youth and to consider how we can reform American schools. Each episode provides clues about how parents and educators alike can engage young people in powerful, sometimes transformational experiential learning. Education can take many forms, but whatever form it takes- experience matters.

Daniel Pink’s book A Whole New Mind makes the case for why experiential learning is necessary in the 21st century. His book Drive explains why it is also so much more motivating for young people. The epiphany that led Dan to these ideas may have occurred when, as a 14-year-old freshman, he wrote his first story for his high school newspaper, The Bexley Torch. In this interview Dan digs up long-buried memories and relives the moment that experiential learning produced what he describes as a physiological change in his brain. 

We cover a lot of territory including:

3:37 Dan as a regrettably compliant student

4:30 Performance goals vs. learning goals (or why Dan can’t speak French)

5:59 How performance goals harm mental health

8:49 Dan’s first Torch story assignment produces a major epiphany

14:07 How extra-curricular experiences differ from traditional school learning

15:11 The link between motivation and human nature

17:51 How the world has changed yet schools stay largely the same

19:37 The skills young people need to avoid having their future jobs outsourced

22:12 Why traditional academic skills are still important, but they’re no longer sufficient

24:04 How Dan’s children engaged in experiential learning outside of school

26:21 What about kids without well-resourced parents?

27:41 Can schools change when we’re so deeply rooted in “bygone era” traditions?

29:00 Dan’s simple and practical suggestion to educators

29:45 An outrageous visual picture of traditional education

30:43 Standardization vs. extreme customization

31:42 A passage from Drive that epitomizes the value of experiential learning

My favorite quote from Drive:

“We know that human beings are not merely smaller, slower, better-smelling horses galloping after that day’s carrot. We know- if we’ve spent time with young children or remember ourselves at our best- that we’re not destined to be passive or compliant; we’re designed to be active and engaged. And we know that the richest experiences in our lives aren’t when we’re clamoring for validation from others, but when we’re listening to our own voice- doing something that matters, doing it well, and doing it in the service of a cause larger than ourselves.”

Daniel Pink’s website: https://www.danpink.com

A Whole New Mind: https://www.danpink.com/books/whole-new-mind/

Drive: https://www.danpink.com/books/drive/

Sign up for Daniel Pink’s newsletter: https://www.danpink.com/subscribe/

Steve Shapiro’s website: https://www.steventshapiro.com 

About Experience Matters

Experience Matters with Steve Shapiro invites guests to reflect on the most profound learning experiences of their youth and to consider how we can reform American schools. Each episode provides clues about how parents and educators alike can engage young people in powerful, sometimes transformational experiential learning. Education can take many forms, but whatever form it takes- experience matters.